When is battlestation getting a minimap?

[Psikie]

Far from it, as a very accomplished RTS/TBS gamer I'm very familiar with the concept of fog of war. However it seems the concept escapes you since it never had a place in mmorpgs, nor is fog of war in any way similar to a minimap for the two to be compared. It's similar to view distance/line of sight if anything. Idk if you're trolling or genuinely that ignorant for a person playing video games for at least 12 years it's shocking.

Interesting that you can be so self proclaimed accomplished and know so much EXCEPT the definition Fog of War-

The fog of war (German: Nebel des Krieges) is the uncertainty in situational awareness experienced by participants in military operations.[1] The term seeks to capture the uncertainty regarding one's own capability, adversary capability, and adversary intent during an engagement, operation, or campaign.

Or that it has no place in mmorpgs EXCEPT TSW, Conan and of course AO most notably during Halloween when most players turn fog off, if not already off the rest of the year. Bet you didn't see that one coming. Have you seen this movie?

Or if you insist on nitpicking and trying to dissect my posts people are going to think you have a hard on for me. (or wait you might be a gal- even though you do not write like a lady) why not look at this definition as an accomplished gamer you should be familiar with the concept right? Fog of War

The adaptation of the preceding definition by Gamers to describe the blacked-out, or fogged-out, areas on a map in games such as Civilization, Warcraft, Starcraft, etc.

Reading and comprehension are two (as in the number 2) different things. Poor little tink tink.

[Pafpuf]

You are very adept at taking everything out of context.

[Awikun]

Arguing with you gives almost as much pleasure as masturbating with a hammer ...

... Your inability to grasp the concept of open mass pvp and personal dislike for teaming is not the subject of discussion here.

Your inability to understand other player's gaming experience, goals and fun is causing any discussion with you pointless. However I can and I will write what I like and you can not stop me from doing it.

... Soloing in an open pvp area is a choice, as is teaming especially for professions who don't really preform well in solo pvp but shine in team situations such as doctors, crats, and traders.

I have a level 200 Doc, level 200 Crat and level 158 Trader and I always play them solo on BS. You may be surprised but I manage to get solo kills on any of those profession even against so called "teamed pvpers". The fact that you are unable to do the same does not give you right to tell others what to do or how to play!

Few days ago I witnesed an interesting sittuation on BS:
Omnis captured 3 points (A, B, and C) and core was not taken by any side for quite a long time. I signed up as Omni for that round and as I was running around BS I saw mostly level 200 Omni twinks and green Clanners farmed all over BS. When I ran to Core and strated to cap it I heard not 1, not 2 but 3 Agents in sneak shouting "DO NOT 4CAP"
Of course I did 4 cap and then had a funny hate tells from them how I ruin pvp there ...

...Besides how is a team interrupting your duels any different from having 3-4 solo players doing the same?

That question again only proves how little you understand the mechanics of AO

Fair duels (that rarely happens) as well as solo play on BS means that you do not get benefits from team buffs and auras!
I can understand and live with fact that some/or most ppl inside BS will have some buffs like GSF, Hot, RRFE, Behe, Mop, etc. or even all of them but if in addition they are teamed and get : Crat's aura, Doc's HP/hot, Trader's Umbral and Engie's blockers it is not a prove of their skill but rather proves that they are cowards. Of course they are always sticking together and MINIMAP WOULD HELP THEM EVEN MORE!

The only coward pvper here is yourself because you only look to pick duels.

I hardly ever pick duels because I do not care about duels or my duel score. And if I duel I rather pick the most demanding challanging professions as my oponents to try and beat or at least learn something from match ups where in theory I have very little or no chance of winning. For example on my Doc I ll try to duel Soldiers or Fixers and I am quite happy if I manage to win 1 in 3-4 duels against them.

That concept must be totaly strange to you because you obviously prefer to be teamed with Crat, Trader, Engie and Soldier and all together kill any single dots on minimap ...

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Do not team inside BS = problem solved
FC ! Please do not implement this idea I am fed up already with fighting alone against so called (teamed) pvpers ...

I want you to leave.

And NEVER COME BACK.

[Baby]

Fair duels (that rarely happens) as well as solo play on BS means that you do not get benefits from team buffs and auras!
I can understand and live with fact that some/or most ppl inside BS will have some buffs like GSF, Hot, RRFE, Behe, Mop, etc. or even all of them but if in addition they are teamed and get : Crat's aura, Doc's HP/hot, Trader's Umbral and Engie's blockers it is not a prove of their skill but rather proves that they are cowards. Of course they are always sticking together and MINIMAP WOULD HELP THEM EVEN MORE!

Could you please stop calling team pvp "coward pvp"?
The problems you have been pointing out have different causes. They have nothing to do with team pvp, team buffs or the minimap. Actually I can read a lot of grudge in your post, maybe because you never get teams, or your teams aren't as tactically clever as others. I can understand that this frustrates, but stop blaming random things for that. People will not get any advantages with the minimap over others, because they have a minimap also.

[Pafpuf]

That question again only proves how little you understand the mechanics of AO

I understand mechanics of this game just fine, however they have nothing to do with your personal grudge against teamwork and preference to play as a hermit. Like I said play as you want but don't demean other people's preferences. Nice to see you took my blog writing suggestion seriously too but I meant do it elsewhere that's not this thread.

[Awikun]

BS does not run so often or there are not enough ppl to make fair team vs team gaming.
If one side comes "strategically teamed" the probability that on the other side there will be similar team is close to zero.
Fighting team vs a group of random individuals is hardly fair and keeping 1 point clear to make this sloughter last longer is hardly a sign of bravery...

[Psikie]

I don't think teaming on BS is a bad thing. In fact I would say it is encouraged. I also understand how a map would help teams coordinate more when a blob of 4-5 can see a single blip and attack like a pack of sharks. I get that is just how it goes.

What I don't get is why it's a big deal. Sure it might be looked at like a small QoL change, but there are plenty of places where pvp happens with maps. Why not let this ONE and only location be unique in that regard? I feel that it adds an element of surprise and excitement to an otherwise routine scenario. It's not often that both sides are evenly matched to the point where a map makes that much of a difference if any at all.

Id rather run into a pack of 5 and go Oh $hit and try to take out at least 1 before I die as opposed to, seeing a blob of enemies on my map and just turning tail and playing catch me if you can. Because that's what a map will do, give that foresight to turn BS into a kite zone. Especially for fixers with aoe snares or NT's with aoe blinds/nukes.

Just a thought.

[Pafpuf]

BS does not run so often or there are not enough ppl to make fair team vs team gaming.
If one side comes "strategically teamed" the probability that on the other side there will be similar team is close to zero.
Fighting team vs a group of random individuals is hardly fair and keeping 1 point clear to make this sloughter last longer is hardly a sign of bravery...

While what you are saying might be true (although I'm still skeptical given your selfish "I solo thus everyone else should" behavior) you are clearly talking from the perspective of a leveling (200), not endgame (220) battlestation.

You are obviously exaggerating, never have I seen an entire side come "strategically teamed", people will at most team up with 1-2 orgmates/friends or with random people they find inside.

And you know slaughterfest pvp is actually pretty fun because it's a lot more dynamic than being a grumpy man looking for duels in the wrong place. Of course sometimes there's rounds where one side gets rolled (which happens without teaming too, fyi) but that's a very normal thing in competitive activity. There are winners and there are losers. Plus it depends on what goal the person inside has: some want to pvp, some want to get their daily over with. I have personally never considered a round won or lost based on which side reached 500 points first, couldn't care less about a number that represents nothing except the duration of a battlestation round and a negligible bonus to VP. In my opinion 4 capping is lame but the daily farmer with no intentions to pvp will welcome it. Such is pvp, there will always be a conflict of interests and it's about time you grew up and dealt with the fact that pvp doesn't revolve around you to keep trying to dumb it down to a lower level because team pvp hurts your hermit feelings.

[Tikra]

Not sure why i'm even bother to post here, but i guess my internal postcount has to grow.

I see no damn issue with BS getting an active minimap. We have it everywhere. Promotes zerging? We do that in every damn raid we have. Spawncamping? I highly doubt. Because you can only camp the spot where afk folks spawn at.
And for teaming in BS... sure. Why not? There's teams in towerwars. There's teams in city pvp and whatnot. If you got steamrolled by a team of 3 4 5 <whatever>, you had no chance in first place anyway. So let em /disco on the stick that may spawn upon your corpse.

And yep. Ima PVM dude. But sometimes, i really enjoy BS. May it be just because, the PVP guys have a hard time to nag on my HP bar.
One thing, doesnt exclude the other. Just as a reminder

[McKnuckleSamwich]

And you know slaughterfest pvp is actually pretty fun because it's a lot more dynamic than being a grumpy man looking for duels in the wrong place. Of course sometimes there's rounds where one side gets rolled (which happens without teaming too, fyi) but that's a very normal thing in competitive activity. There are winners and there are losers. Plus it depends on what goal the person inside has: some want to pvp, some want to get their daily over with. I have personally never considered a round won or lost based on which side reached 500 points first, couldn't care less about a number that represents nothing except the duration of a battlestation round and a negligible bonus to VP. In my opinion 4 capping is lame but the daily farmer with no intentions to pvp will welcome it. Such is pvp, there will always be a conflict of interests and it's about time you grew up and dealt with the fact that pvp doesn't revolve around you to keep trying to dumb it down to a lower level because team pvp hurts your hermit feelings.

Sometimes I disagree with you but lately your opinions are very moderated, well expressed and reflective of my own.

I completely agree.

[Psikie]

You know what, I would propose something different for this map idea.

Why not ONLY enable to mini map when your side is losing on BS. Think about it, the mini map does give a small tactical advantage when it is enabled. So perhaps a way to lengthen rounds would be to give a small advantage to losing side to balance it? Maybe this could lengthen rounds some?

I just have a hard time saying sure open the map for the winning side and their advantage just becomes that much stronger able to effectively cap guard with the mini map to keep players in there forever unless they "deserter".

Then once side point advantage changes so does the disabled map.

[Pafpuf]

You know what, I would propose something different for this map idea.

Why not ONLY enable to mini map when your side is losing on BS. Think about it, the mini map does give a small tactical advantage when it is enabled. So perhaps a way to lengthen rounds would be to give a small advantage to losing side to balance it? Maybe this could lengthen rounds some?

I just have a hard time saying sure open the map for the winning side and their advantage just becomes that much stronger able to effectively cap guard with the mini map to keep players in there forever unless they "deserter".

Then once side point advantage changes so does the disabled map.

That's a pretty bad idea for a multitude of reasons. It would discourage point capping to retain the advantage of having a minimap since like I said, the overall point score in battlestations is a completely negligible feature. There's no consequences to "losing" by points so the idea of giving a side an advantage as big as that is nonsense. Thirdly it would make prolonged pvp farming, something you and every other anti-pvper are very much against, even "worse" since there's nothing forcing players to gain an advantage in points.

{edited by Anarrina: removed unnecessary comments}

[Psikie]

It would discourage point capping to retain the advantage of having a minimap since like I said, the overall point score in battlestations is a completely negligible feature.

Actually it would allow the losing side to cap easier, being able to avoid any campers while being unseen themselves. Or for more strategically losing player 1 can lead away any camper and losing player 2 can swoop in and cap while they watch you chase their friend on the mini map.

{edited by Anarrina: removed responses to previously edited remarks, removed unnecessary comments}

[Pafpuf]

Actually it would allow the losing side to cap easier

Why would someone want to cap if having less points gave an advantage? Like I said multiple times already, there's absolutely no point in having more cap points than the opposing side and given your suggestion the first side to cap a point would be crippled for the remainder of the round (unless there's someone actually stupid enough to throw said advantage away).

{edited by Anarrina: removed unnecessary comments}

[Baby]

Paf is right. If I was on losing side with a minimap and wanted to pvp, hell I wouldn't even think about capping a point.
On second thought though, just because I wouldn't cap, doesn't mean no one would. Also doesn't mean winning side won't 4cap to get it over with. So it's not actually a guarantee that the round will go forever. Unless of course losing side would camp the last point and alpha/pew everyone to keep them from 4capping so they can farm kills.

However losing should never have an advantage over winning. It's just against all logic.

Edit: What even happens at the beginning of a round with that suggestion? When each side is at 0 points? Will both have a map? And as soon as someone caps, one side will lose it? Even though they're not actually losing yet because of one capped point? Pretty sure no one would ever cap anything anymore.

[Oliveerz]

Psikie, good thought. But with bs, there is no punishment for losing whatsoever. And just because one sidr has the point lead, doesn't make them the dominant side in bs. I rarely cap points in bs, i prefer to hunt down and kill people who are, more. So what im saying, the 'losing' side could also be the dominant side, pvp wise. Which in your case, would grant them more benefits.

[Psikie]

Psikie, good thought.
<snip>
So what im saying, the 'losing' side could also be the dominant side, pvp wise. Which in your case, would grant them more benefits.

That is absolutely correct. But some of the pvp folks don't get it. Im suggesting they get what they want...at a cost. The cost being you have to let the "weaker" side gain more pts on BS = more vp = more motivation for the weaker side to continue. They are going to farm greenies anyway, but at least the greenies can feel some sense of accomplishment in gaining more BS pts and having a chance at "winning" the round.

For the pvp folks winning = racking up the most kills, for pvm folks winning = racking up the most points. Now everyone is happy. Let the weaker side cap and you can control the speed of the round by using your map to hunt them down at will.

Or as some are suggesting to have a map and still hunt down greenies while they are at zero points and expect them to keep BS running.

[Awikun]

As long s you have level 220/70/30 ther is no need to enter BS at all
Unless you have some serious identity problems and have to pvp (farming leveling chars)

[Anarrina]

Psikie and Pafpuf:

The two of are you skating on some thin ice with the continued back-and-forth insults. Either fine a way to communicate politely or put each other on ignore.