Ranged Energy Endgame Weapons and Melee Energy Perk Support

[Raggy]

This is something that has been discussed plenty of times before but I feel it needs reiterating since we're drawing closer and closer to the NPE.

Ranged Energy lacks any form of 'endgame' weapon. No, the Dreadloch Rapier is not an endgame weapon since it has no LoX counter part. There needs to be an RE weapon, either 2-handed or dual-wieldable that can be upgraded with Xan Weapon Upgrades to bring RE up to a point where it's actually a viable skill line.

Melee Energy on the other hand has LoX upgrades but has no native perk support making it the only weapon type of its kind to receive no aid from SL perklines, this needs to change.


With the possibility of new players entering AO with the NPE, having 2 weapon lines that are basically forgotten and unused is just bringing us back round to the whole removal of Swimming and such. Pointless IP sinks that new players will fall into. So either remove them or make them useful again. I'd prefer the latter

[Xootch]

i agree. while i don't think a lox weapon is crucial (would be appropriate though! don't get me wrong), ofab support would also facilitate leveling with re. IMO the weapon types should be reworked. energy weapons melee and ranged, should offer higher base and max damage while being short on specials compared to other weapon lines. but that's just a suggestion.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Melee Energy on the other hand has LoX upgrades but has no native perk support making it the only weapon type of its kind to receive no aid from SL perklines, this needs to change.

Bow doesn't have any SL supported perklines either, just as a technicality. But I'm not arguing your point. I think Bow also needs an SL perkline.

[Raggy]

Bow doesn't have any SL supported perklines either, just as a technicality. But I'm not arguing your point. I think Bow also needs an SL perkline.

I thought MA had +Bow in their prof perklines somewhere outside of Ranger, guess not, I don't play MA an awful lot lol

[Cratertina]

Agreed, rework ranged energy weaponz. Maybe xan plasma cannon, balance it so it does similar damage to assault rifle, only with fling. Hard hitting crits, say 500-700(900) Big nasty RE.

Duck exp to make it sweet. Alternate stats could be 100-1000(1200).

Current RE weapons are Ok, but not something worth equiping.

Gif keeper melee energy perkline, potenntialy advy aswell, strap it on support symbiants.

Ranged energy smgs for fixer,
Energy hw cannons for soldiers,
Ranged energy rifles for agents,
These can be slow hard hitting weapons, with fast charge and slow recharge.

Opening up decent gameplay fun.

Just make them an alternative style.

[Cratertina]

Agreed, rework ranged energy weaponz. Maybe xan plasma cannon, balance it so it does similar damage to assault rifle, only with fling. Hard hitting crits, say 500-700(900) Big nasty RE.

Duck exp to make it sweet. Alternate stats could be 100-1000(1200).

Current RE weapons are Ok, but not something worth equiping.

Gif keeper melee energy perkline, potenntialy advy aswell, strap it on support symbiants.

Ranged energy smgs for fixer,
Energy hw cannons for soldiers,
Ranged energy rifles for agents,
These can be slow hard hitting weapons, with fast charge and slow recharge.

Opening up decent gameplay fun.

Just make them an alternative style.

[Le-Quack]

only profession that ned bow support is mp.
makes no sense or logic that a martial artist gonna have a bow special perkline if that what you tried to aim for.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

only profession that ned bow support is mp.
makes no sense or logic that a martial artist gonna have a bow special perkline if that what you tried to aim for.

why?

It makes the most sense that MA should have a full SL perkline dedicated to bow.

MA has the most natural support for bows. If MA doesn't have it... who would?

Your "logic" is illogic.

[Cratertina]

Bow right now is a joke, so yay. Wish we had bows on advy, bows this good that pistols would look lame.

All we need is 1.0, 1.5 bow with AS 225-425(300) dd, and troaler nerf to 1.0-2.0 recharge.

Maybe adjust recharge on current xan bow, make two version, one with fast AS, and one slow with big crits.

Bow just needs better weapons not better perks.Thoug shade-like 7 dd perks in one line would be nice aswell.

[doctorgore]

Heavy weapons for engie and sold and full symb/perk support.

[Khaldore]

I'd definitely like to see more ME/RE support across the board, so here's my two cents:

Melee Energy:
- Give the Dawn/Dusk of the Xan Brawling, and drop the crit bonus from 500 to 300 to balance the scales a bit. Optionally, increase their equip requirements to something closer to the other Xan weapons, and ramp up the damage range to match. As it stands, the Dawn/Dusk (in my experience testing them) are completely outdone by typed Kyr Energy Hammers, and that's just ridiculous.
- Potentially add a 2-handed LoX variant, or create a tradeskill to rework the Dawn/Dusk into a 2-hander.
- Add a Group perkline similar to Power Up. Not sure who you'd give it to, though... Keeper and Shade perhaps, since neither has any real support for more than one weapon type at the moment.

Ranged Energy:
- Make the Dreadloch Thrasher/Rapier upgradable with the Xan Weapon Upgrade (no point in adding even more entries to The Beast's loot table, in my opinion, though I'll admit this idea isn't exactly story-friendly).
- Give the Thrasher (and its potential upgrade) Full Auto to give an alternative to using an Assault Rifle, and add the Type 12 upgrade to the Kyr Energy Carbine.

Both:
- Add Ofab variants of *both* weapon lines (totally optional, but since they did add a lowbie Ofab tonfa... *shrug*), call them something interesting to keep with the animal theme. Say, Ofab Cougar for Melee Energy, Ofab Scorpion for Ranged Energy. Just a thought.

I'd love to go into more detail about various ideas I've had, but this isn't the thread for that.

[Le-Quack]

why?

It makes the most sense that MA should have a full SL perkline dedicated to bow.

MA has the most natural support for bows. If MA doesn't have it... who would?

Your "logic" is illogic.

why is that martial artist makes sense to have bow?
martial arts.. the name itself.. they can karate, kungfu bla bla bla, that they can be bow masters is becose people watch to many movies. if they are suposed to master bow, they should master all weapons and have acces to evry single perkline ingame if you first gonna mean they should master a bow but not piercing wepons or 1handed weapons.. becose martial artists in movies uses more 1 handed weapons and fists than bows if we gonna take it there.

so no it makes no sense sorry.
it could be cool with bow perks, but if they gonna do that they ned to start give other professions perks to, becose nothing says that a martial artist here ned a bow perkline or a extra new perkline before many others like Mp's for example.

[Raggy]

why is that martial artist makes sense to have bow?
martial arts.. the name itself.. they can karate, kungfu bla bla bla, that they can be bow masters is becose people watch to many movies. if they are suposed to master bow, they should master all weapons and have acces to evry single perkline ingame if you first gonna mean they should master a bow but not piercing wepons or 1handed weapons.. becose martial artists in movies uses more 1 handed weapons and fists than bows if we gonna take it there.

so no it makes no sense sorry.
it could be cool with bow perks, but if they gonna do that they ned to start give other professions perks to, becose nothing says that a martial artist here ned a bow perkline or a extra new perkline before many others like Mp's for example.

I believe he was referring to the fact that the Ranger perkline is only open to MA all the way and that the Kyudo Bow buffs only exist for MA. Bow support already exists for MA but it still needs a nudge to make it a viable weapon type for them in comparison to fists.

[Shadowforcee]

why is that martial artist makes sense to have bow?

Kyūdō

[Le-Quack]

Kyūdō

becose they have buffs doesnt mean they are suposed to have perks. so becose fixers has a sneak attack buff should they have a piercing perkline? just wondering.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

becose they have buffs doesnt mean they are suposed to have perks. so becose fixers has a sneak attack buff should they have a piercing perkline? just wondering.

dude stop.

http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=204994
User Strength >= 900 and
User Profession == Martial Artist


http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=273370
User Profession == Martial Artist

http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=267707
User Profession == Martial Artist

http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=264326
User Profession == Martial Artist

http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=253183
User Profession == Martial Artist

http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=246083
User Profession == Martial Artist

http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=278990
User Profession == Martial Artist

http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=278987
User Profession == Martial Artist

http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=254418
User Profession == Martial Artist

http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=267706
User Profession == Martial Artist

http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=278997
User Profession == Martial Artist Notably though, infantry alpha eye doesn't have bow on it, but it does have Aimed Shot...

http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=292606
User Profession == Martial Artist

http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=280778
User Profession == Martial Artist

This last one really is the one that is the nail in the coffin in your argument quack.

[Le-Quack]

so you argue with symbs that has bow? then there gotta be allot of perklines shared out to professions if we gonna base it on symbs. and the bow on items shares with with MP, ma's just lucky to get some acces wich i dont know why in the first place.

MP would have to get a bow perkline first, and MA would ned to start get 1h perkline, 2h perkline and so on if they want to start give perklines to all things a martial artist is suposed to have and know

so i gonna argue with that obi tom calculater adds crit and is useable on my soldier, so i want acces to the 24% crit buff ma's have on my sol.
now there is no reason why my sol would ned such a buff, just as the reason why a ma would all of the sudden ned a bow perkline out of nowere.

the bow support is a fatt bonus for swaps on martial artist pvp toolset since they wield a high crit chanse so the as usualy always caps. if we were to remove and block ma's to use bow and aimshot you still be over balanced compared to many other professions, so i cant see any valid reason for why you think and want dev team to use time and energy on makeing up a bow perkline for martial artists all of the sudden.

if the game was so balanced that adv would be equal to the rest of the professions like vs a keeper or mp i would find it more valid to suggest such a change for the fun, but nothing else.

[DigitalBath]

Nice off-topic tangent, there! I'll just go ahead and say Le-Quack needs to review over a decade of AO's bow use by Martial Artists and figure out how wrong he is on arguing any profession, according to FC's own design, has anything more to do with Bows than them. They have the most bows, bow-related items (hell, even the MA star/nanodeck has it!) and bow buffs of any profession and have been designed with it in mind. They even have a little upgradeable starter weapon Bow (Shaolin Sporting Bow or something similar).

On-topic.. Ranged Energy could use a little more support but there's already some pretty interesting things that can be done. Melee energy, however, is one of my favourite weapon types in the game and I'm locked out from using it effectively on the characters I'd love to see it on (my 2nd doc being one of them.. don't judge me! lightsaber doc is a thing, ok?)

Let's hope these get reviewed at some point and more support is added for these and other "filler" weapon types.

[meeep]

The only thing mcknuckle shows is that MAs have more than enough support. More than most profs have for any weapons. So really don't see the point in giving them even more.

They do also have support in eye, support can be used by MAs.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

The only thing mcknuckle shows is that MAs have more than enough support. More than most profs have for any weapons. So really don't see the point in giving them even more.

They do also have support in eye, support can be used by MAs.

You'd think so.

But iirc MA's, even with the support items as listed top out at 3k AR.


So, while yes, we have more support than most, the reality is that our AR with bow sucks pretty badly, and the ranger perkline does absolutely F-all for functionality in any kind of situation:

perk AR isn't good, perk damage isn't good, perk damage doesn't align with weapon, and perks are AI instead of SL, which means we get an abundance of SL perks that we can't use for anything, AND we lose 10 AI perks that are actually in high demand elsewhere.

So, you're sort of correct, but technically, there's a lot more support for other weapon types for other classes, and just because I showed some items that clearly indicate that MA's are the prof that are intended to utilize bow, they don't actually have enough support (or as much support) as other profs do for their intended weapon type.

Just think, for example, of soldiers with AR, or fixers with MG/SMG, or advy with pistol, NT's with MC, keepers with 2he... etc. or even, MA's with MA. Clearly an MA with 3k AR isn't going to do much except squish. An MA needs around 3800 AR to do anything in PVP using fists... a bow, I'm not really sure tbh, but I'm guessing it's more than 3000ish.