balance the adventurer

[Le-Quack]

yes you heard me, balance the adventurer.

they have like 3200 ish evades static with aad.
they have heals
and they have limber and dof wich gives 200 and 800 that they can cycle
they have bio cocon 10k absorb and bio rev perk heals 15k health.
they have pistol perks with 80% check
the troa pistol caps like evrytime on a adv
they can do allot of dmg in short time.

now what about removeing something?

say you remove bio cocon line and it would like like this:

they have like 3200 ish evades static with aad.
they have heals
and they have limber and dof wich gives 200 and 800 that they can cycle

they have pistol perks with 80% check
the troa pistol caps like evrytime on a adv
they can do allot of dmg in short time.

does it look bad when i removed bio cocon?
to me they would be balanced and equal.
from god mode to balanced would suck, but wouldnt it be a fair thing to do?

[Lazy]

you forgot that they're almost immune to CC.

just nerf advs into the ground.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

yes, we might as well just call it FO.

No prof needs to be nerfed until fixers are 'fixed' and I mean neutered.

[Lazy]

trox already neuter so i don't see why you wanna neuter us even further

but fixers are the nerfest prof already, so i don't see what more they can do to us besides turning us into MP's

[Le-Quack]

mp after balance will be boring, go shield and see if u can kill a unequiped 220 with 0 ip trained.

go weapons and die after 20 seconds when damage to pet runs out.
they realy know how to improve a profession and prevent em to more or less remain the same after a change i most say. creative and no doubt.. much knowledge behind it.

[Xootch]

solution to advies is easy. remove as pistol. fix pistol perks.

[Dajam]

There are a lot of different professions in AO, and everyone has their different experiences with each. Because there's so much diversity, match up perceptions can be skewed based who you ask. However, I think most everyone can agree that Adventurers are grossly overpowered in PvP. I'd say that only Agents (FP Doc) and Doctors can duel an Advy favorably. Everyone else flat out loses.

PvP mechanics are built around counterplay. If person A does X to person B, person B should respond with Y. Obviously this is a very basic example and skill comes into play when prediction/anticipation are brought to the table. Adventurers are a toxic example of counterplay. They just have too many plays or 'outs' and it's very frustrating to play against.

[Spirulina]

Solution is not to nerf adv but to raise other lack cluster professions to their level. Unnerf MAs and MPs first before considering any changes to adv (the weakest profs in any scale, have done gauntlet recently with these and died repeteadly, no team invites even when no use to any team). Any coon profession gains considerable egde in pvp and PVM due to players and mobs different damage type. MA is a joke when compared to shade for example. Give MAs pvp love by giving us sneak attack on tonfa like melee adv has (no more some silly hotfix swap that just adds to already stressfull gimp profession to play). MAs need also aao drains to pvm to raise them to shade level. Also introduce way to give hud crit items +50 aad when used by MA. That will ease the cap between PVM and pvp setup.

[Cratertina]

Advy is the only thing that stands between fixer being hands down best pvp profession. So nerf them both...

Job done!

[Dajam]

Solution is not to nerf adv but to raise other lack cluster professions to their level. Unnerf MAs and MPs first before considering any changes to adv (the weakest profs in any scale, have done gauntlet recently with these and died repeteadly, no team invites even when no use to any team). Any coon profession gains considerable egde in pvp and PVM due to players and mobs different damage type. MA is a joke when compared to shade for example. Give MAs pvp love by giving us sneak attack on tonfa like melee adv has (no more some silly hotfix swap that just adds to already stressfull gimp profession to play). MAs need also aao drains to pvm to raise them to shade level. Also introduce way to give hud crit items +50 aad when used by MA. That will ease the cap between PVM and pvp setup.

Sorry to be rude, but that's a contender for the most idiotic post ever written. First of all, your initial point is 100% incorrect. Other professions do NOT need to be at the level of Adventurers. Do you want and bunch of unkillable machines running around that take zero skill to figure out or play? You don't balance the game by saying "hey we've got 1 or 2 overpowered professions! Let's make the rest of them gods and have them whack at each other! Sounds fun right!?"

Secondly, this is a discussion strictly about pvp. Your argument about pvm is wrong anyway... MAs, when setup right can be among the top DD in the game. I'm not saying that they don't need help in pvp... They do a bit, but not to the extent that you're babbling about.

Please... Think about whether you know what you're talking about before mindlessly posting nonsense.

[Baby]

If this thread is solely about PvP, and the above mentioned things are stressing people in PvP, then how about addressing the one thing that is actually PvP relevant? In other words: Remove the Troa'Ler, not the cocoon.

[Pennypacker]

If this thread is solely about PvP, and the above mentioned things are stressing people in PvP, then how about addressing the one thing that is actually PvP relevant? In other words: Remove the Troa'Ler, not the cocoon.

Removing troa ler will introduce another problem, but i guess since every single person in AO has a fixer in their char list that's a non issue

[McKnuckleSamwich]

remove troaler?

then remove SWS.

then remove onehander.

then remove ABC.

Hell, might as well remove Jobe pistols too.

And while we're at it, lets get rid of coon.

Then we might as well get rid of blockers.

And malaise.

Don't forget malpractice.

Then we can remove Jobe triple/doubles.

Then we can remove symbiants.

And perks.



You know what... why don't you whiners play froob?

[Lazy]

from that list, only toll pistol and jobe nukes need removing. the rest is fine.

[Dajam]

from that list, only toll pistol and jobe nukes need removing. the rest is fine.

His point is that once you remove one thing that is strong, something else will become the new OP. In the example of Troa'ler, once you remove it, a reliable way to deal with evade profs like Shade and Fixer won't really exist. Then Shade and particularly Fixer will become the new "most overpowered." Then what do you do? Nerf more things!

See how it becomes a vicious cycle of nerfs? Balance is tricky and it requires a very good eye to get it right. You have to nerf something without making something else OP in the process and that's not easy to do.

[Lazy]

His point is that once you remove one thing that is strong, something else will become the new OP. In the example of Troa'ler, once you remove it, a reliable way to deal with evade profs like Shade and Fixer won't really exist. Then Shade and particularly Fixer will become the new "most overpowered." Then what do you do? Nerf more things!See how it becomes a vicious cycle of nerfs? Balance is tricky and it requires a very good eye to get it right. You have to nerf something without making something else OP in the process and that's not easy to do.

there were ways of dealing with fixers and shades pre-lox. absolutely nothing of value will be lost with the nerfing of the troa'ler pistol into the ground if not outright removing.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

there were ways of dealing with fixers and shades pre-lox. absolutely nothing of value will be lost with the nerfing of the troa'ler pistol into the ground if not outright removing.

Soo, what you're saying is, you want fixers to be public enemy #1?

Because, that's how you become public enemy #1.

[Dajam]

there were ways of dealing with fixers and shades pre-lox. absolutely nothing of value will be lost with the nerfing of the troa'ler pistol into the ground if not outright removing.

By "ways" do you mean NTs and Mongo Rage? If those are the options, then it sounds like Fixers would be just as strong (likely stronger) than current state Advy. Like I said earlier, Advy has like 2 counters in a 1v1 situation - Doctor and Agent in FP doc. Having 2 ways to deal with something is toxic to pvp because everyone else feels helpless. It's bad design. Period.

[Baby]

His point is that once you remove one thing that is strong, something else will become the new OP. In the example of Troa'ler, once you remove it, a reliable way to deal with evade profs like Shade and Fixer won't really exist. Then Shade and particularly Fixer will become the new "most overpowered." Then what do you do? Nerf more things!

See how it becomes a vicious cycle of nerfs? Balance is tricky and it requires a very good eye to get it right. You have to nerf something without making something else OP in the process and that's not easy to do.

If that is the case, it would also be true for "removing cocoon".
The thing is Troa'Ler never made any sense. A pistol with AS? Seriously? Actually the same goes for craphander, but the difference is Troa'Ler is a lot more efficient than that. And of course there will always be this one thing that is "the best / OP". You can't be that naïve to think that one day all profs will be entirely even? There will always be a winner. If you nerf advis to the ground someone else will take their place. Then we're back in this thread with a different title.
However, the solution to PvP issues is not messing up PvM capabilities. Cocoon has a major impact on soloing PvM content (granted, mostly low/midlevel).

[Dajam]

If that is the case, it would also be true for "removing cocoon".
The thing is Troa'Ler never made any sense. A pistol with AS? Seriously? Actually the same goes for craphander, but the difference is Troa'Ler is a lot more efficient than that. And of course there will always be this one thing that is "the best / OP". You can't be that naïve to think that one day all profs will be entirely even? There will always be a winner. If you nerf advis to the ground someone else will take their place. Then we're back in this thread with a different title.
However, the solution to PvP issues is not messing up PvM capabilities. Cocoon has a major impact on soloing PvM content (granted, mostly low/midlevel).

I never said it wasn't the same case for cacoon. I just used Troa'ler as my example (which is why I said "in the example of"). Also, I never said I expected perfect balance, I only hope for closer balance. As I said, a good balance is very hard to achieve. The goal is not for 100% complete equality... The goal is for all professions to be viable enough that regardless of profession, if the player is great at it, he can still take down what is considered the strongest profession.

Currently advy is so easy to be "good" at and it's ridiculous. Low skill floor and ceiling along with the fact it's stupid overpowered is frustrating.