Gif moar Tara like raids.

[Gatess]

lol. you call dd wars on a green mob pvm? fine. whatever.
you don't want to follow rules? fine again. but go neut or something. there will be no organization of any side in any "war" without rules. if you don't like that: quit. every group in any given scenario will have leaders to function properly. everyone knows that. do you seriously want to debate that? sounds to me like personal beef. which is fine and reasonable. but stand with it and act accordingly.

I don't have a clue who you are, but DC is (way) more Omni than you. If you stand by the !points bot better than accepting a org that I've seen more than one time defend towers even while being banned, you should reconsider your faction and buy an application form.


People keep bringing "the old days" of DD wars up, but I don't see anyone referring about how there were always exceptions to the mass !points zerg.

Circle of Notum, Hells Heroes, Punk and MdR that I recall, have at some point, been "independent" in some fashion. Either by controlling TL7 towers on their own, or by doing non-instanced Pande separately. I'm sure other people can remember others.

In those days they wouldn't ban people's accounts.....

[Cratertina]

My idea is to have 0% supression zone, where everyone could attack everyone outside their team/raid. Just imagine the gankage!

[DarkerThanBlack]

I don't have a clue who you are, but DC is (way) more Omni than you. If you stand by the !points bot better than accepting a org that I've seen more than one time defend towers even while being banned, you should reconsider your faction and buy an application form.


People keep bringing "the old days" of DD wars up, but I don't see anyone referring about how there were always exceptions to the mass !points zerg.

Circle of Notum, Hells Heroes, Punk and MdR that I recall, have at some point, been "independent" in some fashion. Either by controlling TL7 towers on their own, or by doing non-instanced Pande separately. I'm sure other people can remember others.

In those days they wouldn't ban people's accounts.....

No org controlled tl7 towers on their own and contested pande had nothing to do with independence, the FFA days were agreed upon between omni and clan raid bots and even those were controlled by two orgs cooperating while the rest had no chance. Nowadays there's no point in FFA days because it would only suit orgs with the most shared accounts (which is still an eula violation), especially when it's a single harmless mob that requires absolutely no effort to "raid".

[Gatess]

I think your memory is failing you or you didn't understood me.

The orgs I mentioned controlled TL7 LDC's without the help of the Omni bot to defend at a given point. Org members were still free to do PvM in the Omni bot while this happened.
In regards to the "agreement" on non-instanced Pande was more like "either you agree or we will OD you".

[Baby]

I'd love more raids like Tara. The only current problem with adding more, is that PvP or even friendly raid competition is frowned upon because a raid bot thinks they own the right to have it 100% of the time. They don't care if a same sided faction earns the loot by ODing them, they look at it as if it's stealing and then condemn the group of people that rightfully won the lootrights.

This isn't a problem that Funcom can fix. The community of AO has built this raid bot into what it is and now, it's a monstrosity that blocks the path of anyone who wants to play the game the way it was supposed to be played. Most who are loyal to this raid bot are only loyal because it's been the way they've played the game since they started. They've never geared a character up with an Org that is helpful and will run raids frequently, specifically to gear out it's members.

To be fair, only a few of those kind of Orgs exist anymore. Although, without the presence of a raid bot overlord, I'd expect that more Orgs like this would flourish and the game would be better for it. Everyone is so afraid to just PLAY THE GAME that they are deliberately limiting themselves of fun.

Anyway, back the the point... More Tara raids would be awesome. Maybe the other problem will sort itself out some day... Who knows?

There is no such thing as "friendly competition", if there's a shiny prize waiting. Especially not when the prize is only available every 9hrs and has a random loot.
I understand that not everyone likes point-based bots - for whatever reason - but the base intention behind them, is to provide everyone in this game with a reasonable chance to get the content done for loot or quests. Not everyone has a big org behind them, that can succeed at every single encounter in this game. So if said bot starts a raid and someone "intrudes", they have all the rights to condemn you from the bot. Because it is theirs. Why does it even matter to you, if your org can do Tara just like that?

Quite the contrary. Removing a raid bot (no matter if pvm or pvp) will result in the exact opposite. As well as no one can force you to join a raidbot, you can't force anyone to join a big org, just so they can get loot. While I admire your optimism, I feel like population gets lower each day, so no, the problem will not sort out by itself one day. That one day DLC can raid Tara without even needing to get Clan out of the way, sounds more realistic to me.

[Teeko]

We don't care about being condemned from the bot. We care about being told in public places in the game that we "stole" tara. We didn't steal tara, we ODed hellcom. We won the loot. We don't care that people oppose us, we welcome that. We just don't like being put out to be "villians" because we disagree.

[Baby]

We don't care about being condemned from the bot. We care about being told in public places in the game that we "stole" tara. We didn't steal tara, we ODed hellcom. We won the loot. We don't care that people oppose us, we welcome that. We just don't like being put out to be "villians" because we disagree.

If you don't care, then why making a fuss?
You didn't steal Tara gameplay wise, but you basically fought your own faction. (Not in the way of PvP, more like objecting to it.) When they now consider you villains and despise you, well, deal with it.

[Teeko]

We have a problem with being played off as crappy omnis when we help with towers, yet are shunned from everything that makes us omni, all because of the way we prefer to do tara. We feel its more of a friend/org event rather than raidbot/faction style encounter.

[Baby]

We have a problem with being played off as crappy omnis when we help with towers, yet are shunned from everything that makes us omni, all because of the way we prefer to do tara. We feel its more of a friend/org event rather than raidbot/faction style encounter.

That's nothing but selfish.
Getting kinda tired of this, but: Tara has a 9hr timer. Only every 9hrs there is a mob a whole server of people can attend. So when you think this is an Org event you're clearly not interested in nurturing your community at all. It is still not against any rules, but bear with the consequences from your own faction. You're upset because some people call you villains? Ever thought about how upset other people are that one org excludes them from Tara loot, just because? This isn't a matter of gameplay, this is a matter of what kind of person is behind the screen.

[Gatess]

That's nothing but selfish.
Getting kinda tired of this, but: Tara has a 9hr timer. Only every 9hrs there is a mob a whole server of people can attend. So when you think this is an Org event you're clearly not interested in nurturing your community at all. It is still not against any rules, but bear with the consequences from your own faction. You're upset because some people call you villains? Ever thought about how upset other people are that one org excludes them from Tara loot, just because? This isn't a matter of gameplay, this is a matter of what kind of person is behind the screen.

From a clan point a view you seem to be within reason. You're playing devil's advocate because maybe the outcome will result in a weaker Hellcom and therefore more chances for clan to win.

If DC keeps at it, it will only result in HC trying harder, which will result in less chances for clan to win.

Why else would you be posting without even referring to the OP?


Speaking of which :

Will to Fight would be a freaking awesome area for a new instance like this to be designed. Being away for 4.5 years and coming back recently I was hoping and asking everyone if Gauntlet worked like Tara.... got a little disappointed it didn't, so I totally subscribe to OP's suggestion.

If that isn't possible, please redesign Gauntlet so you make each floor un-instanced so you can bump into other teams in each floor and kill them while fighting the bosses at the same time. Adding a little danger to Gauntlet farming will make top setups a bit more rare, hopefully.

[DarkerThanBlack]

I think your memory is failing you or you didn't understood me.

The orgs I mentioned controlled TL7 LDC's without the help of the Omni bot to defend at a given point. Org members were still free to do PvM in the Omni bot while this happened.
In regards to the "agreement" on non-instanced Pande was more like "either you agree or we will OD you".

Other than the few funny orbital strikes no org ever defended on it's own against a bot attack, the differences in active numbers were simply too great. What you're talking about is pure fiction.
In regards to the agreement on non-instanced pande it was actually a gentleman's agreement between bots to give orgs a chance to do endgame raiding on their own. Tara is far from such a raid since it is literally a single harmless mob, it's not an "org" experience, it's not competition. What it is is good old greed.

We don't care about being condemned from the bot. We care about being told in public places in the game that we "stole" tara. We didn't steal tara, we ODed hellcom. We won the loot. We don't care that people oppose us, we welcome that. We just don't like being put out to be "villians" because we disagree.

No, you're villains because you exploited the tara safety hellcom provides to screw over everyone who's with the bot because of your own selfishness.

[Gatess]

you're from rk2 aren't you?

[Dajam]

That's nothing but selfish.
Getting kinda tired of this, but: Tara has a 9hr timer. Only every 9hrs there is a mob a whole server of people can attend. So when you think this is an Org event you're clearly not interested in nurturing your community at all. It is still not against any rules, but bear with the consequences from your own faction. You're upset because some people call you villains? Ever thought about how upset other people are that one org excludes them from Tara loot, just because? This isn't a matter of gameplay, this is a matter of what kind of person is behind the screen.

It's not "just because." Before we started taking stabs at Tara, many people from our Org were already banned from Hellcom. You should see the reasons for some of these bans... They're ridiculous and reek of a power complex. Since we had members that were already banned, what choice do those people have to get loot from Tara other than form a raid of their own? All because the leader of a bot decided someone was excluded for something insane, those people are now doomed to ever get Tara loot? Screw that. We happen to like those people and think they deserve Tara loot too.

When we say that Hellcom thinks they own Tara, we don't mean that Hellcom is just the larger entity and we're upset that we aren't a part of it... We mean that Hellcom literally thinks they own all rights to Tara, and anyone who happened to get on the wrong side of an admin for whatever reason, is now screwed forever unless they have us.

Also, this isn't a points thing. It's not cause we dislike points systems. Some of us like them, some of us are indifferent, and some of us dislike them. Most of us are indifferent to the points system and it bears zero weight to why we do what we do. Our issue is only with the fact that we want Tara loot and the only way we can get it is ourselves... Then when we succeed in achieving that goal, we are treated as if we're trash.

[Xootch]

@teeko/gatess: where did i mention dc? that goes for any org. you think you are doing something unique. what you are doing, no matter how you twist it around, is you are not working with the rest of your side. out of vanity. no matter how you determine your leaders, they are leaders and if another omni would join, they would have to respect your leaders - just like you were supposed to respect hc leaders. if you cannot see how stupid that argument is as it bites its own tail rather directly, i cannot help you or understand you for that matter. you are free do do whatever you like, but to claim that dc is more omni then the rest of omni is...well. you figure it out.

and it does not matter who i am. i quit the game. still i may point out this concept of 'our leaders' are better than 'your leaders' is nonsense. you split away from your side. there is no feature in ao to create another side. there are only 2. or 3 if you count neut who have during my time in ao never really managed to be a side. if you dont play with your side, you are by definition asocial. which is your right. but dont pretend like you are the solution to anything.

anyway, thanks for confirming, this is an emo thing.

[Baby]

From a clan point a view you seem to be within reason. You're playing devil's advocate because maybe the outcome will result in a weaker Hellcom and therefore more chances for clan to win.

If DC keeps at it, it will only result in HC trying harder, which will result in less chances for clan to win.

Why else would you be posting without even referring to the OP?

Nonsense. I made my point clear in regards to OP, and the entire discussion about this raid is clearly in relation to any new content that will work the same, wouldn't you agree? Besides, I personally don't ever attend any NW raids. Neither am I standing on the side, cheerleading for my own faction.

It's not "just because." Before we started taking stabs at Tara, many people from our Org were already banned from Hellcom. You should see the reasons for some of these bans... They're ridiculous and reek of a power complex. Since we had members that were already banned, what choice do those people have to get loot from Tara other than form a raid of their own? All because the leader of a bot decided someone was excluded for something insane, those people are now doomed to ever get Tara loot? Screw that. We happen to like those people and think they deserve Tara loot too.

When we say that Hellcom thinks they own Tara, we don't mean that Hellcom is just the larger entity and we're upset that we aren't a part of it... We mean that Hellcom literally thinks they own all rights to Tara, and anyone who happened to get on the wrong side of an admin for whatever reason, is now screwed forever unless they have us.

Also, this isn't a points thing. It's not cause we dislike points systems. Some of us like them, some of us are indifferent, and some of us dislike them. Most of us are indifferent to the points system and it bears zero weight to why we do what we do. Our issue is only with the fact that we want Tara loot and the only way we can get it is ourselves... Then when we succeed in achieving that goal, we are treated as if we're trash.

Well, thanks for clarifying. Didn't know about the general HC issue there. I thought this was a one time thing.
Still, I stand by it. No new content like this, as long as we're in the current situation of pvp and failing community.

[DarkerThanBlack]

you're from rk2 aren't you?

No I'm just posting with a clear head unlike certain individuals who are clearly holding a grudge.

It's not "just because." Before we started taking stabs at Tara, many people from our Org were already banned from Hellcom. You should see the reasons for some of these bans... They're ridiculous and reek of a power complex.

Hey guess what that's exactly what 99.99% of the banned people say, "I did nothing wrong, zomg powerabuse". There are rules in place, either follow them or get kicked out it's that simple really. Thousands of players have followed them over the years without a problem. if you think a ban reason is ridiculous it's only because you, and all those others who got banned "for no reason", didn't even bother reading the rules and acted according to your own set thinking hellcom mimics them because you're selfish and think the world revolves around you. Reality check: hellcom has functioned for 10 years and rebellious players/orgs come and go all the time. It's pretty obvious what side is functional and what side is just throwing tantrums because they shot themselves in the foot in front of everyone and tried blaming others. Now that's ridiculous

[Gatess]

No I'm just posting with a clear head unlike certain individuals who are clearly holding a grudge.



Hey guess what that's exactly what 99.99% of the banned people say, "I did nothing wrong, zomg powerabuse". There are rules in place, either follow them or get kicked out it's that simple really. Thousands of players have followed them over the years without a problem. if you think a ban reason is ridiculous it's only because you, and all those others who got banned "for no reason", didn't even bother reading the rules and acted according to your own set thinking hellcom mimics them because you're selfish and think the world revolves around you. Reality check: hellcom has functioned for 10 years and rebellious players/orgs come and go all the time. It's pretty obvious what side is functional and what side is just throwing tantrums because they shot themselves in the foot in front of everyone and tried blaming others. Now that's ridiculous

You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. I have been in Ventrilo chats where bans were decided on the spot because one of the admins was annoyed with a group of players. This happened in 2007. I'm not saying that was the case now, I don't even know what exactly Dajam is talking about, but it's pretty obvious you're clueless about both game and bot and you're discussing this because you like forum pvp.

I'll let you live in oblivion and self-reassurance that you actually know something and refrain myself from responding.

You could also learn a couple of things from Baby.

[Baby]

Hey guess what that's exactly what 99.99% of the banned people say, "I did nothing wrong, zomg powerabuse". There are rules in place, either follow them or get kicked out it's that simple really. Thousands of players have followed them over the years without a problem. if you think a ban reason is ridiculous it's only because you, and all those others who got banned "for no reason", didn't even bother reading the rules and acted according to your own set thinking hellcom mimics them because you're selfish and think the world revolves around you. Reality check: hellcom has functioned for 10 years and rebellious players/orgs come and go all the time. It's pretty obvious what side is functional and what side is just throwing tantrums because they shot themselves in the foot in front of everyone and tried blaming others. Now that's ridiculous

Sorry, but you're completely wrong here. I've been with many raidbots in my entire AO time, and from all the bans, kicks or time-outs I've witnessed, only a handful (if at all) were justified. I don't want to throw around numbers, but the majority of raidleaders are completely full of themselves. They set up rules that make no sense whatsoever, just so people have to follow them. And if not you get an insta kick. Unless they like you, of course. Then you're allowed to do whatever you want, even if it wipes the raid.
People get drunk with power too easily, and it can't be, that tiny orgs or single players will have to be at a raidleaders mercy, to get important loot. As Tara loot is.

[Teeko]

No I'm just posting with a clear head unlike certain individuals who are clearly holding a grudge.



Hey guess what that's exactly what 99.99% of the banned people say, "I did nothing wrong, zomg powerabuse". There are rules in place, either follow them or get kicked out it's that simple really. Thousands of players have followed them over the years without a problem. if you think a ban reason is ridiculous it's only because you, and all those others who got banned "for no reason", didn't even bother reading the rules and acted according to your own set thinking hellcom mimics them because you're selfish and think the world revolves around you. Reality check: hellcom has functioned for 10 years and rebellious players/orgs come and go all the time. It's pretty obvious what side is functional and what side is just throwing tantrums because they shot themselves in the foot in front of everyone and tried blaming others. Now that's ridiculous

Lol. My ban reason: Disrupting the bot. What did i do? I woke up one morning and was banned. Refused to leave iraid so I could get unbanned. Go ahead and tell me how all bans are justified. Tell me how perfect that bot is and hire everyone can use it and how the world is full of dancing fairies! >.>

[Teeko]

No, you're villains because you exploited the tara safety hellcom provides to screw over everyone who's with the bot because of your own selfishness.

What is this Tara safety that we "exploit"? We kill clans at Tara, we don't hide behind the hellcom raid and only attack Tara. We legitimately win Tara.