Ask for modifications on Dreadloch Tigress before mp patch release this mounth?

[Le-Quack]

Dreadloch Tigress
NODROP UNIQUE
Ammo: 12/25
Quality level: SPECIAL
Requirements:
Wield:
On Self:
Meta-Physicist and
Aimed Shot from 901 and
Fling Shot from 901 and
Bow from 1801 and
Must have expansionset: Lost Eden

Ammo type: Arrows
Damage: 325-600(650)
Dps: 113.0-208.6(226.0)
Speed:
Attack 1.60s <-------------------------- 1.20 would be a start for bow and no job for the dev team to fix before the mp patch, it would make mp allot more viable for pvm and pvp
Recharge 1.60s <---------------------- 1.20
Equip delay: 6.00s
Initiative: Ranged Weapons Initiative
Location: RightHand
Range: 25m
Special: FlingShot Snipe
Max beneficial skill: 2600
Attack skills: Bow 100%
Defence skills: Dodge-Rng 100%
Modifier:
On User:
Modify Max Health 500
Modify Max Nano 500
Modify Add All Def. 100 <--------------------------- def without shield has always ben a issue, easy fix and no job for devs to change
Damage type: Disease AC

[Baby]

Me gusta! Gief def :3

[Cratertina]

HAHA HAHA!

11 second AS on MP... lawl,
Damage: 325-600(650)

And add defense.

Now personally I'm all up for buffing MP, this change would mean 0 for pvm, where MPs are epic nerfed, for pvp it would create another AS abomination.

MP's need good pets, good symbs that support weapons, good perks, MOAR evades... like 250 endgame buff to all evades,... and a better endgame nuke(s).

Make a MP a better MP, not a better than Agent AS dispenser.

[Dysfunction]

I think mp's need a buff for pvp for sure, but I'm not certain this is the method to implement it...... it only makes literally one weapon setup at all viable.

[Baby]

HAHA HAHA!

11 second AS on MP... lawl,
Damage: 325-600(650)

And add defense.

Now personally I'm all up for buffing MP, this change would mean 0 for pvm, where MPs are epic nerfed, for pvp it would create another AS abomination.

MP's need good pets, good symbs that support weapons, good perks, MOAR evades... like 250 endgame buff to all evades,... and a better endgame nuke(s).

Make a MP a better MP, not a better than Agent AS dispenser.

Uhm, you're aware that the DMG in OP is exactly the current DMG Tigress has? And that 100 Def won't change the current MP AS? What are you even saying here?

[sannz]

Uhm, you're aware that the DMG in OP is exactly the current DMG Tigress has? And that 100 Def won't change the current MP AS? What are you even saying here?

I believe the main issue was with the proposed Weapon Recharge reduction from 1,6 to 1,2 seconds resulting in a 0,4sec * 40 = 16 seconds faster AS Recharge.
Or in other words, reducing the skill needed to cap AS from 1766 to 1233.

The advantage of course being that it would open up a lot of interesting equipment routes, seeing as you could have a capped AS recharge paired with hurting dmg even on low multipliers without a single piece of Supple-ish armor on.

[Baby]

I believe the main issue was with the proposed Weapon Recharge reduction from 1,6 to 1,2 seconds resulting in a 0,4sec * 40 = 16 seconds faster AS Recharge.
Or in other words, reducing the skill needed to cap AS from 1766 to 1233.

The advantage of course being that it would open up a lot of interesting equipment routes, seeing as you could have a capped AS recharge paired with hurting dmg even on low multipliers without a single piece of Supple-ish armor on.

Right I didn't notice the "11 sec" between all the blabla.

However Troa'Ler is 1,2/1,5 so Tigress might as well get adjusted or better. It's not like MPs will be OP then - still far behind everyone else.

[Le-Quack]

HAHA HAHA!

11 second AS on MP... lawl,
Damage: 325-600(650)

And add defense.

Now personally I'm all up for buffing MP, this change would mean 0 for pvm, where MPs are epic nerfed, for pvp it would create another AS abomination.

MP's need good pets, good symbs that support weapons, good perks, MOAR evades... like 250 endgame buff to all evades,... and a better endgame nuke(s).

Make a MP a better MP, not a better than Agent AS dispenser.

i had 11 sec as with guns with also gave me 2776 ar without aao tower or 12m wich made me perk 3300+ evades wit pistol perks that does ALLOT of dmg on top of the 11 sec as and dual equiped guns that made me proc mad

so agein why is 11 sec as on a bow bad?

also mps already have 11 sec aimshot with bow when they use imp.

[-Klod-]

You guys still beating this dead horse?

[Le-Quack]

have to make sure its dead

[Esssch]

You guys still beating this dead horse?

Ya, Klod already came up with the only adjustment Tigress needs. Double AS.

[lainbr]

I was going to answer Cratertina... but seems not needed.

[Cratertina]

My point is, you can make Tigress 1/1, fast fling fast AS, but it just makes other weapon options obsolete and still MP would be quite lamesome, very sub par to other "good" professions.

And fixing MP by giving it fast AS... is just a bandaid fix. NT needs real improvement not just fast bow.

[JustinSane4]

I've got to say, I don't like this idea. Tying the viability of the profession to one overpowered weapon seems like a dead end road.

[lainbr]

Yeah, I just forgot to say I dont like it either. I think it is far better to give us equivalent usefull bows for diferent uses: special ones (which is tigress), pure off ones (should be xan ones, but it failed), deff ones, nano ones... Maybe I'm being utopic though. (Yeah, I'm lookin for creation bows from old nanodocs :x)
P.s.: I'm still around

[Baby]

Yeah right, double Zset is totally justified, but a slightly better/easier AS on Tigress isn't. Makes sense, really.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I think the main point here is that to make a prof truly viable, you need broader goals than just "epic weapon plox".

A weapon doesn't make a prof "good" - however, there is some fairly contrary evidence on this, notably the Dshark basically transformed soldiers into usable toons in PVP and PVM overnight.

But the Dshark alone doesn't make a soldier good - it was necessary at the time to stick one on and then you'd have decent offence, but I've heard for years "walking Dshark" which basically meant that any idiot could equip the weap but it didn't make you good.

[Le-Quack]

i had 11 sec as with guns with also gave me 2776 ar without aao tower or 12m wich made me perk 3300+ evades wit pistol perks that does ALLOT of dmg on top of the 11 sec as and dual equiped guns that made me proc mad

so agein why is 11 sec as on a bow bad?

and i have to repeat myself

i would like to know from professionals why 11 sec as on the troa gun wich caps more or less evrytime aswell is better than 11 sec as on bow. also i would like to know why you dont support better attack/recharge for the bow to be optional to cap 1/1 in pvp and pvm in full def. in full def setup ish bow gear self buffed you have like 2200 bow ar

how is guns more accepted with 2700+ ar and capped recharge on aimshots+more regular hits and better ar to increase chanse on landing hits to proc and on top of if it full pistol perkline with 80% dodge check?

[JustinSane4]

and i have to repeat myself

i would like to know from professionals why 11 sec as on the troa gun wich caps more or less evrytime aswell is better than 11 sec as on bow. also i would like to know why you dont support better attack/recharge for the bow to be optional to cap 1/1 in pvp and pvm in full def. in full def setup ish bow gear self buffed you have like 2200 bow ar

how is guns more accepted with 2700+ ar and capped recharge on aimshots+more regular hits and better ar to increase chanse on landing hits to proc and on top of if it full pistol perkline with 80% dodge check?

These are very fair questions, as is Baby's on the double SoZ.

If you look at the 18.7 proposed SoZ, or Le-Quack's adjusted Tigress, these are absurdly good weapons. And even if we had them, MPs would be far from over-powered. There would still be real problems with the profession. Why? Our core tool set - pets, nukes, debuffs - has stayed static for years while nearly all other professions have really benefited from stat inflation. MPs mostly have gotten absurdly high nano skills. Yay?

What I would really like to see are changes that help all MPs, regardless of build. The damage to pet nanos and fixing our damage debuffs so that they do not over-write crat init debuffs are steps in the right direction. The loss of current Sacrificial Shielding will hurt some Tigress setups, but from what bow MPs who have played with 18.7 on the beta server have told me, the DtP nanos and not being locked in nano-recharge all the time at least offset it. The NSD nerf isn't helpful, but all the important bosses had NSD immunity anyway. For raid utility, being able to use our damage debuffs on the Beast, Artillery Commander, etc is more important than the functional loss of NSD.

Personally what I'm hoping for more than anything are new, good, pets.

The dual-SoZ thing isn't something any of the MP professionals asked for - though I've got to admit, as a dedicated SoZ MP since I hit 215, I'm really looking forward to it. It helps MPs, so we certainly won't ask for it to be removed, particularly since shield builds would be notably weak in 18.7 without the option to dual-wield shields.

This is a good suggestion for a band-aid for bow MPs. It would be balanced and increase build diversity with Tigress builds (you could have crit geared setups, add damage setups, nanoskill setups, a lot options compared to "everything that buffs AS to cap at 11 seconds.") It'd also make every other non-creation weapon setup obsolete (possibly excepting pistol for PvM DD). While it's not the general direction I'm hoping for in the way of MP improvements, it does have its merits. I'll certainly pass along the suggestion to Michizure.

[Le-Quack]

i do agree that we ned better nukes and pet love, but this only benefit the shield of zset user atm if that may happen and it kill any other forms for weapon setups. shield of zset is kinda not nerfed even by useing 1x in next patch if you consider the loss of the 30% reflect in it for the trade for that it gives even more aad, and we do get a 25% reflect wich mean we only lost 5% reflect basicly for a shield user.

also if nukes and pet was incrased it would obviously help a weapon setup mp without shield, but the focus on shield gets very large compared to a non shield setup?
i do like shield idea if pets got stronger, but it isnt exactly a very challangeing setup to use shield
also what i suggested for dreadloch bow is maybe not the best solution, but bow should have more support given.

offtopic
Soothing Spirits perkline ever ben a topic with its 2x perks? kinda crazy that a whole perkline of 10 perks gives you 2x perks. there is room for 1-2 more perks in the perkline to be givien? we arent exactly swimming in perks compared to others.