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Thread: 18.7.0.21 Testlive notes.

  1. #1

    18.7.0.21 Testlive notes.

    Some good news for NT's? I think I see pigs flying by... Yep, there's one right there!

    Today's update on Test has only nice fixes for us, moving things finally in the right direction.

    Michi's notes for us:

    Nano Technician
    Added "Nanobot Guard" to VP nano shop
    Stripped Nanodecks (from the VP shop) have had their damage lowered
    Garuk's Improved Viral Assault lowered defensive check and no longer requires a DoT

    Nanobot Guard is a little different than on live. Here are the specifics:

    Nanobot Guard
    Nano Cost: 1027 NCU cost: 50
    Nanoline: Damage to Nano
    Duration: 00:00:25
    Speed:
    Attack 1.00s
    Recharge 1.00s
    Local cooldown: 60.00s
    Modifier: On User:
    DamageToNano temp set to 85
    DamageToNanoMultiplier temp set to 150
    Nanopoints -500, 5 hits, 5.0s delay

    On Death: On User: Set Nano Points 1, 5 hits, 1.0s delay

    Requirements:
    Use: On Self:Nano-Technician and Must have expansionset: Shadowlands


    So, there is a tiny nano dot that runs when you use it, but at 220, it's not really too bad. Lower levels will feel that harder. Oddly, there are no requirements to use it. I take it this was made quickly for testing purposes, so don't expect this to stay exactly as-is.

    Previously, Nanobot Guard had the following requirements:
    Requirements:
    On Self:Nano-Technician and
    Must have expansionset: Shadowlands
    User Matter metamorphosis >= 1047 and
    User Matter creation >= 1047

    Stripped Cyberdecks having high damage was a clever find. I honestly didn't look at them, but that change sounds like it makes sense.

    Michi, you are taking away all the reasons I have to complain about GIVA. It's really coming along. Here's how it looks now:

    Defence skills: Nano Resist 75%
    Modifier:
    On Target:
    Taunt -5000
    Damage 250-400 if On Self:Affected by: Self Illumination
    Damage 10800-16600 if On Caster:Matter Crea from 3000
    Damage 9600-15200 if On Caster:Matter Crea below 3000 and Matter Crea from 2600
    Damage 8400-14800 if On Caster:Matter Crea below 2600 and Matter Crea from 2300
    Damage 7200-13400 if On Caster:Matter Crea below 2300 and Matter Crea from 2100
    Damage 6000-12000 if On Caster:Matter Crea below 2100


    So, damage range stayed the same, but Nano Resist has dropped by 25%, and scaling MC values have been reduced. One thing worth noting is, we are still one of the very few professions that cannot buff our own damage skill. However, we are the only profession that only useful for damage that cannot buff our own damage skill (well, not by enough worth mentioning anyway).

    The nano documents speak of 4 Self Only MC buffs. 40, 65, 105, and 155 at the top. Those numbers do sound a bit high, but since we are unable to OE nukes, a little more MC help goes a long way for us to compete. I'm sure MP's would be happy if one less profession is constantly bugging them for Mochams. Speaking of Mochams, if this self buff is in the cards, it should share the same nanoline to not be stackable. It's a thought, but since we are tweaking GIVA now, this should be considered.

    But, wow. A few days and a few tweaks have finally swung things in a positive direction for us. All things considered, the 18.7 changes have finally tipped in our favor.

    Good work so far Michi and crew. We appreciate your efforts

    NT Nano Documents for reference:
    http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...-Nano-Document!
    Last edited by Vinkera; Feb 14th, 2015 at 02:40:16.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  2. #2
    so i have to reeat and ask why garuks still do low dmg and cant do the same as old dm? dm was used for many many years before someone found out how to sploit and there was never a single complain about the dmg.
    why is it so hard to boost the dmg?

  3. #3
    @Vinkera: The PvP nanodeck find may and may not be related to me having made a lvl 15 NT on test with the 200-300(450) version of it equipped and going to town on subway hitting harder than most twinks without any other gear on.. Hah.

    On a more serious note.. The direction we're taking on Testlive seems rather nice apart from the delayed bomb nuked which at 220 hit for way too low damage to be worth casting IMO. (In PvP the damage was so low I would just prefer doing another double).

    @Le-Quack: We have had a 10% nano damage buff added to our toolset and our Cyberdeck now does some damage now and then. That alone might get total NT DPM closer to what it used to be with the old DM at 2300 MC.

    I have already found a couple bugs in this testlove iteration with NTs and will check again where to report them so I don't keep bugging Michi directly on test.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Le-Quack View Post
    so i have to reeat and ask why garuks still do low dmg and cant do the same as old dm? dm was used for many many years before someone found out how to sploit and there was never a single complain about the dmg.
    why is it so hard to boost the dmg?
    I know where you're coming from, but the short answer is, I don't know. I've asked multiple times in the past, but at least we've been receiving some nice QoL improvements to GIVA. We've also gained the 10% damage buff to improve IU. Our damage is close, but still does feel a bit lacking.

    Counting the 10% buff and at top tier, GIVA is still 1,000 damage short of DM (comparing minimum damage).
    Counting the 10% buff and at tier 3, but also adding in the additional damage IU does, it's again short.

    The trade off is, never before have we been able to run up to a mob, hit GIVA / DM and it fires right away. No stupid DoT to worry about. Nor the need to watch the target's NCU like a hawk and swear up a storm when we miss the last one due to lag, etc. It's kind of a toss up. Damage is definitely lower than when we had DM, but then again... It's easier to just start doing damage, and that alone is a huge sigh of relief.

    I'd take more minimum damage on GIVA, if we can get it. It would make GIVA more consistent, and make up most of the difference at the same time, but it's come a long way in a few short days. Dropping the NR to 53% to equal out with IU also makes sense. Those being our primary form of damage at 220, they should have equal resistances.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  5. #5
    I'de very much like non-capped nanos instead of the way it works now and just handle it via local cooldown of nanos if the nanodeck weapon thingy is going to work.
    Any chance of that happening ?
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by nanoforcer View Post
    I'de very much like non-capped nanos instead of the way it works now and just handle it via local cooldown of nanos if the nanodeck weapon thingy is going to work.
    Any chance of that happening ?
    Well, to balance things out, a recharge timer and local cooldown are needed in some situations.

    One thing that's pretty ineffective is our absorbs, and it's due to a long recharge timer. Sure, you can toss one up before you start nuking, but there's really no chance to get another one in anyplace. However, if we had insta-recharge and just a line cooldown, I think that would be a little unbalanced. In the case of absorbs, the nano documents show 2 second recharge, 5 second line cooldown throughout the whole range, which sounds more reasonable. That 2 second recharge would even give the cyberdeck a chance to fire, and then you can continue nuking as usual. Since these look to be untouched at the moment, I'd say that change is possible.

    However, if our offensive nukes were all insta-cast, we'd then be able to do full damage vs a single target kiting, which no other ranged profession can do. But then again, some offensive nanos have caps that hurt us, such as Constant Barrage. It would seem to me that Constant Barrage's caps were created because it's in the same nanoline as every other offensive nuke. If that were in its own, it could have its own line cooldown. The nano documents do show NR debuffs moved to their own line, but they are totally awful numbers otherwise. It refers to 10 second line cooldown, 80% NR check, and only up to -563 NR at the top end, third debuff. That is clearly awful and next to useless.

    If our NR debuffs did have their own nanoline, it should look more like insta-cast, 1 second recharge, 2-4 second line cooldown. That wouldn't speed up the rate we can debuff NR, but it would allow us to toss a blind in or something else during the cooldown. Debuffing NR takes precious time, and ties us up with casting/recharge time. Although I don't PVP much, I know that's a very stressful thing to balance into your attack, and usually chews up your time with Nullity Sphere. But, if someone's NR is high enough to counter SI, the time you put into attempting to cast it could have been put into Constant Barrage, and now they have both high NR and no DoT. At that point, things probably aren't looking to good.

    Speaking of Constant Barrage also makes me scratch my head at its NR check value. It's 55, which is nice, but what if even that won't land? I had a thought one time about a new NR, root, and blind debuff nano that would have a really short duration and rather long cooldown, but would basically punch through anyone / anything's NR. It was a thought, but kicking CB's NR down a few notches is probably good enough.

    Anyway... There are still some things that are likely to be adjusted in terms of recharge vs line cooldown, but those are just a few that come to mind as a pointless annoyance.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  7. #7
    Defence skills: Nano Resist 75%
    Modifier:
    On Target:
    Taunt -5000
    Damage 250-400 if On Self:Affected by: Self Illumination
    Damage 10800-16600 if On Caster:Matter Crea from 3000
    Damage 9600-15200 if On Caster:Matter Crea below 3000 and Matter Crea from 2600
    Damage 8400-14800 if On Caster:Matter Crea below 2600 and Matter Crea from 2300
    Damage 7200-13400 if On Caster:Matter Crea below 2300 and Matter Crea from 2100
    Damage 6000-12000 if On Caster:Matter Crea below 2100

    Dont see why it should scale up in dmg with more matter creation. a solution should be:

    Damage 10800-16600 if On Caster:Matter Crea from 2100. I realy dont see the problem.
    Last edited by Le-Quack; Feb 14th, 2015 at 16:09:25.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Le-Quack View Post
    Defence skills: Nano Resist 75%
    Modifier:
    On Target:
    Taunt -5000
    Damage 250-400 if On Self:Affected by: Self Illumination
    Damage 10800-16600 if On Caster:Matter Crea from 3000
    Damage 9600-15200 if On Caster:Matter Crea below 3000 and Matter Crea from 2600
    Damage 8400-14800 if On Caster:Matter Crea below 2600 and Matter Crea from 2300
    Damage 7200-13400 if On Caster:Matter Crea below 2300 and Matter Crea from 2100
    Damage 6000-12000 if On Caster:Matter Crea below 2100

    Dont see why it should scale up in dmg with more matter creation. a solution should be:

    Damage 10800-16600 if On Caster:Matter Crea from 2100. I realy dont see the problem.
    So that you actually have a use for Traders? Previously buffing nanoskills at TL7 meant almost nothing ever since Alphas came out and everyone was pretty much able to cast their best stuff with a few swaps anyway.
    Though I do have one way to slightly bump the damage: fix the math. The left side adds 1200 per tier correctly, but the right side adds 1400 per tier except for tier 4 (which only adds 400). It should be 12k, 13.4k, 14.8k, 16.2k, 17.6k.
    [[ RYUAHN | 220/21 Opifex Trader
    == Proud Member of Core ==
    [[ ALASTROPHE | 220/15 Solitus Martial-Artist

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    There is literally nothing wrong with {Shutdown Skills} in it's current incarnation. What should be being looked at is the reason why it's needed so much. E.g, the incredible amount of Alpha being thrown around and the fickleness of Evade profs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    I walk in to BS... could not perk people... with 3704 AR and 300 AAD drain... NT facerolled me, shade instagibbed me, after a few minutes I just decided not gonna bother.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Saetos View Post
    So that you actually have a use for Traders? Previously buffing nanoskills at TL7 meant almost nothing ever since Alphas came out and everyone was pretty much able to cast their best stuff with a few swaps anyway.
    Though I do have one way to slightly bump the damage: fix the math. The left side adds 1200 per tier correctly, but the right side adds 1400 per tier except for tier 4 (which only adds 400). It should be 12k, 13.4k, 14.8k, 16.2k, 17.6k.
    lol ok, i dont know what traders has to do with anything. but whatever realy
    Last edited by Le-Quack; Feb 14th, 2015 at 17:23:48.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Le-Quack View Post
    lol ok, i dont know what traders has to do with anything. but whatever realy
    We kind of have a team buff that gives everyone 153 in several skills including Matter Creation...
    [[ RYUAHN | 220/21 Opifex Trader
    == Proud Member of Core ==
    [[ ALASTROPHE | 220/15 Solitus Martial-Artist

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    There is literally nothing wrong with {Shutdown Skills} in it's current incarnation. What should be being looked at is the reason why it's needed so much. E.g, the incredible amount of Alpha being thrown around and the fickleness of Evade profs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    I walk in to BS... could not perk people... with 3704 AR and 300 AAD drain... NT facerolled me, shade instagibbed me, after a few minutes I just decided not gonna bother.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Saetos View Post
    We kind of have a team buff that gives everyone 153 in several skills including Matter Creation...
    Which would if crossing into the next damage range increase the NT's damage output by like 2%.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkerThanBlack View Post
    Which would if crossing into the next damage range increase the NT's damage output by like 2%.
    i have free space behind me at the wall i am speaking to.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkerThanBlack View Post
    Which would if crossing into the next damage range increase the NT's damage output by like 2%.
    Fine, then let's do the math:

    Given 50% +nanodamage, third tier is 8400-14800, which becomes 12600-22200, or 358 dps.
    Increasing it to fourth tier becomes 9600-15200 (even though it should be 16200). This becomes 14400-22800, or 372 dps.

    That's a 4% increase. Keep in mind this also does not take into account Knowledge Enhancer, Program Overload, or any +radiation equipment, so the % will waver. Still, my point stands, whereby this is built so that anyone that can buff MC besides the NT himself will buff the NT's damage as it goes past the tiers - and the best profession to do this, now that NTs are getting MC buffs that do not stack with Mochams, is the Trader.
    Last edited by Saetos; Feb 14th, 2015 at 20:24:02.
    [[ RYUAHN | 220/21 Opifex Trader
    == Proud Member of Core ==
    [[ ALASTROPHE | 220/15 Solitus Martial-Artist

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    There is literally nothing wrong with {Shutdown Skills} in it's current incarnation. What should be being looked at is the reason why it's needed so much. E.g, the incredible amount of Alpha being thrown around and the fickleness of Evade profs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    I walk in to BS... could not perk people... with 3704 AR and 300 AAD drain... NT facerolled me, shade instagibbed me, after a few minutes I just decided not gonna bother.

  14. #14
    Actually having a utility item like the nanoshield/dmg buff have no requirements, but eat a little(depending on lvl) nano, is very interesting.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  15. #15
    I said NT's damage output, not GIVA's damage output. Pay attention.

  16. #16
    Then perhaps NTs should get a mechanic that buffs their nanodamage per hundred or so points of MC they have. There is at this point one whole use in the game for Trader Umbrals besides MAs and really niche uses (Agents being able to cast higher proc nanos) and it's GIVA. Asking for it to just be one tier of the best damage range is kind of insulting to a profession that has had to fight for a reason to even be part of TL7 teams, now that everyone has enough nanodelta and -nanocost to never worry about running out of nano again.
    [[ RYUAHN | 220/21 Opifex Trader
    == Proud Member of Core ==
    [[ ALASTROPHE | 220/15 Solitus Martial-Artist

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    There is literally nothing wrong with {Shutdown Skills} in it's current incarnation. What should be being looked at is the reason why it's needed so much. E.g, the incredible amount of Alpha being thrown around and the fickleness of Evade profs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    I walk in to BS... could not perk people... with 3704 AR and 300 AAD drain... NT facerolled me, shade instagibbed me, after a few minutes I just decided not gonna bother.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Saetos View Post
    Then perhaps NTs should get a mechanic that buffs their nanodamage per hundred or so points of MC they have. There is at this point one whole use in the game for Trader Umbrals besides MAs and really niche uses (Agents being able to cast higher proc nanos) and it's GIVA. Asking for it to just be one tier of the best damage range is kind of insulting to a profession that has had to fight for a reason to even be part of TL7 teams, now that everyone has enough nanodelta and -nanocost to never worry about running out of nano again.
    With all due respect I think you should take that up in the Trader forums rather than the NT forums. Having the crux of Trader existence be to buff NT damage 2-4% isn't really all that interesting though.

    Not that I don't think there should be benefits to having traders in teams and that there should be things to strive for, with specialised setups or team buffs, even at the highest level.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Saetos View Post
    Then perhaps NTs should get a mechanic that buffs their nanodamage per hundred or so points of MC they have. There is at this point one whole use in the game for Trader Umbrals besides MAs and really niche uses (Agents being able to cast higher proc nanos) and it's GIVA. Asking for it to just be one tier of the best damage range is kind of insulting to a profession that has had to fight for a reason to even be part of TL7 teams, now that everyone has enough nanodelta and -nanocost to never worry about running out of nano again.
    Since most nanos are planned to be scaled based on skill, you're umbral's will be useful. We basically had GIVA thrown at us in a completely useless state, and even when the values were changed, it still was pitiful damage, to say the least.

    Now, we're finally reclaiming some of the damage we used to enjoy, and I can see having a trader in the team being a nice addition if it does, in fact, bump damage output up. However, the thought that my profession should be purposely denied damage that we should be capable of self buffed for trader teamablity is unacceptable. NT's are (or rather... *Should be*) a profession that out-damages most by a fair bit. We have no heals, and not much of a benefit for our team otherwise. Damage is all we had, and now, we're trying to claw it back to become relevant ourselves. NT's on live are largely useless, and that's what we're trying to change here.

    As nanos that scale are released slowly, traders should find their niche in teams also, but making one profession dependant on another to be functional is bad design, and needs to be addressed carefully with us especially.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  19. #19
    Hey!

    I like the changes on GIVA, also nice changes on nanobot guard, and nanodecks can fire now!

    But what u think about Izgimmer's Wealth serious nerf, dont know why i cant see nothing about in release notes, now it insta heal 20k nano, but no more 20k max nanopoints...
    NVM! i just noticed it was in old 18.7, so should we expect a fix?

    Btw isn't supposed that NBG don't remove shelter anymore?
    Last edited by Forz; Feb 14th, 2015 at 22:09:16.
    Clan FTW
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    “Two things are infinite: The Universe and Omni Solitus SB. And I'm not sure about the Universe.” (Albert L33tstein)

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Vinkera View Post
    However, if our offensive nukes were all insta-cast, we'd then be able to do full damage vs a single target kiting, which no other ranged profession can do.
    This caught my eye a bit. I see many soldiers / fixers and even some slightly insane adventurers Kiting with Full Auto / Burst / Fling. It works great enough to kill stuff like Moxy in a reasonable time frame. Sure, NT's still do it better/faster and would do it even better with instacast nukes. But we'd certainly not be the only profession doing it as there are already high damage instant attacks in the game.. add any perk with decent range in their arsenal to this and it works even better.

    I think it's fair enough to shift more towards line cooldowns and less on capped cast times. It makes for more interesting gameplay, imho.

    Shifting gears for a second.. My "clone of Dywas" on testlive, with decent solo'ing gear on (e.g. +41% nano dmg and not a full dmg based character because that's not what I run with 80% of the time), does an average of 310k DPM (over ~10minutes of constant nuking/decking/perking) on the Punching Leet Bag (which doesn't have Max AC's.. wtb one with those too ). - Worthy noting that I actually have to use nano regain perks (Nano Heal/Tap Notum Source/Regain Nano) and, at some point, Izgimmer's Wealth. NT's can chain-nuke without ever running out of nano, they just have to introduce those perks and IW into the rotation at the appropriate points, which seems fair to me).

    It doesn't seem bad but.. anyone here tested their setups on NT's and/or other professions to form some sort of baseline comparison? Just wondering where we stand on the pecking order.
    Last edited by DigitalBath; Feb 14th, 2015 at 22:24:02.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

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