18.7.0.21 Testlive notes.

[Lliers]

Not that it's particularly important or that anyone really cares: but froobs of all other profession get a little something out of the 18.7.xx patch except for NTs. As far as I can tell, none of the changes affect froob NTs.

[Vinkera]

Well, in a setup roughly equal to my signature, damage vs Inferno hecks looks like this:

You hit Guardian of Discord with nanobots for 12483 points of radiation damage. (GIVA)
You hit Guardian of Discord with nanobots for 7229 points of radiation damage. (IU)

There were a few hits from GIVA that broke away from minimum, but usually the damage was the 12,483 I mentioned above. Damage is definitely low VS high AC mobs as we expected. When our big damage range is forced to minimum, we do suffer pretty badly. My non-perked damage ranges are 7094-13156 for IU, and 12348-21756 for GIVA. In a lower add nano damage setup, I recall being surprised when I saw DM hit below 17k once or twice. Unfortunately, I didn't have very long to play around with DM to understand its potentials in real-world setups before it was removed.

So, as mentioned by Sannz and others, the minimum damage of GIVA still hurts it pretty badly, and it also still annoys me that IU has the potential to hit harder. It's such a bummer when GIVA hits low, because you are counting on it to be a bigger blast, and sometimes it just... isn't.

Not that it's particularly important or that anyone really cares: but froobs of all other profession get a little something out of the 18.7.xx patch except for NTs. As far as I can tell, none of the changes affect froob NTs.

I haven't forgotten them. I have a 165 froob NT that I'm pretty proud of, in terms of setup. I definitely understand the problems that affect them, and will be pushing for some adjustments there also.

Ironically, they would benefit from the cyberdeck's attack functionality much more than paid, and giving them some sort of cyberdeck doesn't seem like an awful idea, but...

Baby steps...

[Le-Quack]

Well, in a setup roughly equal to my signature, damage vs Inferno hecks looks like this:

You hit Guardian of Discord with nanobots for 12483 points of radiation damage. (GIVA)
You hit Guardian of Discord with nanobots for 7229 points of radiation damage. (IU)

There were a few hits from GIVA that broke away from minimum, but usually the damage was the 12,483 I mentioned above. Damage is definitely low VS high AC mobs as we expected. When our big damage range is forced to minimum, we do suffer pretty badly. My non-perked damage ranges are 7094-13156 for IU, and 12348-21756 for GIVA. In a lower add nano damage setup, I recall being surprised when I saw DM hit below 17k once or twice. Unfortunately, I didn't have very long to play around with DM to understand its potentials in real-world setups before it was removed.

So, as mentioned by Sannz and others, the minimum damage of GIVA still hurts it pretty badly, and it also still annoys me that IU has the potential to hit harder. It's such a bummer when GIVA hits low, because you are counting on it to be a bigger blast, and sometimes it just... isn't.



I haven't forgotten them. I have a 165 froob NT that I'm pretty proud of, in terms of setup. I definitely understand the problems that affect them, and will be pushing for some adjustments there also.

Ironically, they would benefit from the cyberdeck's attack functionality much more than paid, and giving them some sort of cyberdeck doesn't seem like an awful idea, but...

Baby steps...

tell em to give us back the old DM damage, not a single time did someone complain about the dmg we had on DM, we werent overpowerd either but attracted like shades/crat/engi for haveing equal dmg as em for pvm stuff.

[sannz]

tell em to give us back the old DM damage, not a single time did someone complain about the dmg we had on DM, we werent overpowerd either but attracted like shades/crat/engi for haveing equal dmg as em for pvm stuff.

OH FOR FRAK'S SAKE, quit your whining already. It's not coming back. Deal with it.

Seriously...

[Vinkera]

OH FOR FRAK'S SAKE, quit your whining already. It's not coming back. Deal with it.

Seriously...

Hehe... Sannz,

I think his point is DM comparable damage, which I think we're all agreeing was reasonable. :P

[Variable]

Will the availability of ns1/2 be addressed as well I wonder, or is guard now the primary defense if layers still aren't viable to be recast during combat.

Var

[Vinkera]

Will the availability of ns1/2 be addressed as well I wonder, or is guard now the primary defense if layers still aren't viable to be recast during combat.

Var

I have posted about that in the past, and still feel there needs to be a reliable source to acquire it. Whether that's a specific mob/boss, or even make it rollable. With the low population now, it's really tricky to find NS2 for sale even (as of this writing, there are none on the GMI). NS1 is still pretty common in foreman's, but NS2 is very rare.

There's been debate over this in the past, but here's the honest answer... Is soloing without NS possible? Yes, but.. it really really sucks. The real question should be... Is it possible to solo everything without NS that you could with it? Not even close...

Some people have said make it a quest reward. I personally don't think that's the right answer since we've already got enough nanos as quest rewards. Soldiers don't have to quest for TMS, which is as close of a comparison as you can really get. People that farm and such might try to argue with me on this, but that doesn't change the reality of it being an essential defensive tool that every NT should be able to acquire without a small fortune or dumb luck. Maybe back at release, this was one of those ultra rare, trump card moves that would be completely OP, but that's not the case anymore.

Making NS1 shop buyable and NS2 rollable is the ideal solution.

[DecemberSky]

Wow! A lot of stuff in the past day ,eh? I don't know how thrilled I am that the Aliens dots...seem useless now? Grinding up to ai24 isnt a huge deal like it used to be, but I'd still like to see the DoTs have some purpose.

[Vinkera]

Wow! A lot of stuff in the past day ,eh? I don't know how thrilled I am that the Aliens dots...seem useless now? Grinding up to ai24 isnt a huge deal like it used to be, but I'd still like to see the DoTs have some purpose.

I know what you're saying. Usually, I still lead off with SI just for a little more damage.

But...

I don't want DoT's to be involved with GIVA any more than they are right now. If you have SI running, it does an additional 500 damage, which is fine. However, making a larger portion of its damage dependant on a DoT would be like taking 2 steps forward, and 1 back. GIVA is like a special, having a that 500 damage is a nice little addition, but DoT's should have nothing else to do with it.

On the other hand, I've never actually calculated the difference between just straight nuking with IU, and casting SI, nuking with IU, and recasting SI as needed. It does feel like it's making a big difference, but I don't have numbers to prove it.

The AI level requirement on these is kind of odd. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any other nanos that require this. The other odd part is that these are acquired in RK dungeons, and from very difficult mobs. I think one of the best things we can do with these is make them easier to use and easier to get.

[Saetos]

Wow! A lot of stuff in the past day ,eh? I don't know how thrilled I am that the Aliens dots...seem useless now? Grinding up to ai24 isnt a huge deal like it used to be, but I'd still like to see the DoTs have some purpose.

Self Illumination is still essentially an 18-20k nuke spread out over time, that also adds ~700 to every cast of IU.

[Mastablasta]

Well, SI was always borderline bad. The long cast/recharge and duration times means its something you'll only want to use in a longer fight. In most other cases, like lvling and regular aliens, it's more a detriment to damageoutput.

At least they included some more ticks in the increased duration this time.

[DarkerThanBlack]

SI was (is) very viable in fact, just not good for squishy mobs (a very rare thing in AO anyway) and required the user to adjust their aggdef bar slightly to execute it in 1 second. Obviously junk in pvp since not being full def meant all kinds of trouble but for pvm it was always decent.

[JustinSane4]

I would also appreciate people who can effectively play other classes posting similar 10 minute damage run tests on ICC's Punching Leet, as that's the only frame of reference we're going to get at this point. Anything goes here.. crats.. engies, mps, martial artists, shades, soldiers.. EVERYTHING.. go nuts on the Leet for 10 minutes and post your best results so we can have something to compare with.

I got 323,528 DPM over 11.6 minutes on the Punching Leet with an offensively geared/perked 2hb MP.

Player (Damage/Damage per Minute/Hits/Crits/Crit%/highest hit)
You ( 3.759.208 / 323.580 / 879 / 156 / 17% / 12.681 )

Edit: Same character, same equipment, 1hb (Asp of Titaniush/Shield of Esa).

Player (Damage/Damage per Minute/Hits/Crits/Crit%/highest hit)
You ( 2.717.968 / 337.620 / 621 / 115 / 18% / 13.272 )

[Mastablasta]

SI was (is) very viable in fact, just not good for squishy mobs (a very rare thing in AO anyway) and required the user to adjust their aggdef bar slightly to execute it in 1 second. Obviously junk in pvp since not being full def meant all kinds of trouble but for pvm it was always decent.

If you discount bossmobs there's practically only squishy mobs left in the endgame, but yes for boss it's OK. Not really worth the trouble to cast it without DM, though. And no, it was certainly not always decent. Using it could at one point result in a reduction in DPS.
But maybe you need to have a little more history to appreciate how crap the AI dots are in general

[DarkerThanBlack]

If you discount bossmobs there's practically only squishy mobs left in the endgame

Bossmobs are the only ones that matter though, other than some quests there's really no need to kill regular mobs in this game. Besides it's only common sense that long duration damage over time nanos have a lessened effect on any target they don't tick for their full duration otherwise they would be very overpowered.

[Vinkera]

Bossmobs are the only ones that matter though, other than some quests there's really no need to kill regular mobs in this game. Besides it's only common sense that long duration damage over time nanos have a lessened effect on any target they don't tick for their full duration otherwise they would be very overpowered.

Which is the the exact reason we needed the DoT requirements in all forms removed and kept off GIVA.

Vs anything that last a for a minute or longer, it makes sense to at least lead off with. The problem now is availability and usability, then. If they are much less substantial, then there is no reason to make them as difficult as they are to get and use.

[DarkerThanBlack]

Which is the the exact reason we needed the DoT requirements in all forms removed and kept off GIVA.

That I completely agree with and have asked for the same to be done with DM years ago.

[Mastablasta]

Bossmobs are the only ones that matter though, other than some quests there's really no need to kill regular mobs in this game. Besides it's only common sense that long duration damage over time nanos have a lessened effect on any target they don't tick for their full duration otherwise they would be very overpowered.

I don't think there's any reason to disregard the content that anyone who isn't max lvl are going around doing. The constant focus on absolute endgame is unhealthy.

[Vinkera]

Masta, unfortunately, DTB is right in my NT's case now.

Most of the time, she can be found standing at org spot, like a decorative statute. When it comes to farming or any other trash killing, (as much as I dislike him) my crat is the toon for the job.

"Vinkera" only comes out for DB1/2/3, IS, Catacombs, or some other various things where she's the better choice due to situational survivability.

Although I did build her build her to take a beating, she has no killing power yet

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Will the availability of ns1/2 be addressed as well I wonder, or is guard now the primary defense if layers still aren't viable to be recast during combat.

Var

I thought NT's were getting "two casts" a defensive CD and an offensive CD so you could ostensibly spam defences at the same time as chain nuking.... what happened to that? Or, could you still do that if the att/rech on the nano cooldown fast enough?