New Engine Release should come with new blank slate server

[gresh]

Hm, you can play the game for free, not sure why you would feel ripped off.

You can play a small part of the game for free missin out on alotta zones and items and armors and weapons. Alot of people dont play the game for free. Are you just talking about froobs? I made much more money as a froob in the periods ive let my account freeze. Mainly because of the lack of things to do.

So what happens when all these people log back in? What happens with the influx of hundreds of millions of credits?

The same thing that would happen to the influx of credits if they didnt log back in I imagine. Your infactuation on the amount of credits another has is a little distubring.

You are focusing too much on the exploits. You completely ignored the issue with ingots, and yes, everyone was doing that. So much so, that you couldn't even level from hecklers because they were being camped by high levels.

Im completely ignoring alot of things. But that was just people greedy and you are incorrect. Not everybody did it. That wasnt something that went on fr 13 years though. That was just an example of greed in some people. people that would (have a chance of) be sharing the server with you. Its not like you could get away from them and it wouldnt change anything.

It would take a very long time for a new server to catch up with the amount of credits on the current one.

That all depends on what ways people devise to make quick amounts of creds as well as how soon what ever exploits turn up and how long they are left before they are closed. You have no knowledge of that so cant say eitehr way.

And by doing that, group and interact with people they probably would not have.

you dont need a new server for that. You just need a willingness. I can see what your getting at and yes this would be the only reason i would probably be ok with going to a new server but maintain the

And if they can't pay stupid prices?

They dont pay them. New normal teams for stuff does happen. I loot what I can kill generally and there are many others also. You dont have to pay for any item. form a team, join a raid bot, pick people off lft and make that team with people you wouldnt ordinarily get to meet.

People can sell for a billion credits and some people can pay the billion credits. You aren't going to change people's ethics or behaviors, so you have to change their environment. My argument in a nutshell.

thats a quote you obviously dont understand. You arnt changing the enviroment. Your just wiping clean all personal elements of the enviroment and providing an exact repplica in return.

You are assuming current state and do not factor in making new friends. What motivations does a 220 have in making new friends with an influx of people?

yes I understand what you mean but this isnt the be all and end all. Only initially will this take place and even initially... people can only play with so many people at once. Its not like everybody on the new server will play together in a happy merry dance. People will still make teh same assumptions and judgments and filter off into the same seperate groups. Yes youll make new friends but it will be at the expense of current friends??? what if all your firends dont move out with you. you can still make friends in this server.

Most established orgs won't take anyone until level 150. That happens now. It won't happen on a new server anytime soon.

Do you currently have an org? there are orgs that accept anyone. Pm me if your omni and in need an org.

[AlmightyZeus]

The same thing that would happen to the influx of credits if they didnt log back in I imagine. Your infactuation on the amount of credits another has is a little distubring.

The economy in the game is the scope of the discussion.

That all depends on what ways people devise to make quick amounts of creds as well as how soon what ever exploits turn up and how long they are left before they are closed. You have no knowledge of that so cant say eitehr way.

They dont pay them. New normal teams for stuff does happen. I loot what I can kill generally and there are many others also. You dont have to pay for any item. form a team, join a raid bot, pick people off lft and make that team with people you wouldnt ordinarily get to meet.
thats a quote you obviously dont understand. You arnt changing the enviroment. Your just wiping clean all personal elements of the enviroment and providing an exact repplica in return.

There are some things you have to pay for. Alien Cities being one of them.

I'd be curious to know how many one man orgs have huge cities.

Personal elements? You mean phatz and credits. I also mean the piles of stockpiled credits as well as all those credits on inactive accounts that could possibly come back in to the market with a large influx of returning players.

That is something that would absolutely not happen with a new server.

yes I understand what you mean but this isnt the be all and end all. Only initially will this take place and even initially... people can only play with so many people at once. Its not like everybody on the new server will play together in a happy merry dance. People will still make teh same assumptions and judgments and filter off into the same seperate groups.

Hm, I play other games with people I'm still in touch with. They don't play AO and IIRC the guild I ran in Elder Scrolls Online at launch was around 400 peeps or so.

Point being that there were no established guilds at the time and everyone was pretty much roughly around the same place at the same time. Some were faster and some were slower and little groups and cliches form and change depending on the needs.

Yes youll make new friends but it will be at the expense of current friends??? what if all your firends dont move out with you. you can still make friends in this server.

Then don't move? I'm sure you can hang around Bor and make friends.. but when it comes time to level or dare I say, quest, you are on your own pretty much.

Do you currently have an org? there are orgs that accept anyone. Pm me if your omni and in need an org.

Thank you, I do have an org and I'll probably be buying our new city this weekend. We have a couple live bodies. It's probably one of the oldest in the game. Formed in 2002.

[gresh]

The economy in the game is the scope of the discussion.

Ok fair enough. I misread what you meant. I was on the premise that the exploiters are still in the game. Are they not the ones driving the market up?

There are some things you have to pay for. Alien Cities being one of them.

I'd be curious to know how many one man orgs have huge cities.

You dont have to pay players for that and join into the extortionate prices. I thought when cities were instanced it allowed for every org to have a city. You cna get a plot like anyone else and pay its upkeep every month, a value which is now determined by how many buildings you have on the plot. This has nothing to do with the difference in servers as this will be the case with a new server. It will just take a long time befoe anyone has collected the items needed to build the city buildings (or did that change as well?? can they be bought now?) We have a city. We had a city plot before the merge so when they were all instanced the pres of the org was given some city buildings in his inventory to place on the plot when he claimed one. So I gues smy view on obtaining a city and kitting one out is a little blurred.

Personal elements? You mean phatz and credits. I also mean the piles of stockpiled credits as well as all those credits on inactive accounts that could possibly come back in to the market with a large influx of returning players.

That is something that would absolutely not happen with a new server.

Ok yeah fair enough it wouldnt but that is working on teh premise that the exploiters have stopped playing when really I think they'd be the ones to remain out of all.

Hm, I play other games with people I'm still in touch with. They don't play AO and IIRC the guild I ran in Elder Scrolls Online at launch was around 400 peeps or so.

Yeah I have kept in touch with some too by email and facebook and ive met the odd couple in real life but you dont see them in the same capacity, being in touch and seeing regular in game are two things worlds apart. Plus why offer alternatives to having people stay with ao? isnt the plan to retain people?

Point being that there were no established guilds at the time and everyone was pretty much roughly around the same place at the same time. Some were faster and some were slower and little groups and cliches form and change depending on the needs.

eh, but that would only last for what, the first run through the game. Then people would be rolling buff monkeys of different levels and before you know it everyones all over the place again. Fair enough mate. I hold the oppinion that it would harm the game more than do it good but each to their own and all that.

Then don't move? I'm sure you can hang around Bor and make friends.. but when it comes time to level or dare I say, quest, you are on your own pretty much.

I wont. Are you talking about now or if they make a new server. I dont hang around in bor generally.

Thank you, I do have an org and I'll probably be buying our new city this weekend. We have a couple live bodies. It's probably one of the oldest in the game. Formed in 2002.

Nice, yeah I saw it on your signature after i wrote the post but I only mentioned it in reference to you cmplaining that most orgs dont recruit if your below 150 but if your in an org, and your org recruits lowbies... why does it matter. Rest assured there are orgs that invite under 150. Im in an org and I have access to a few org bots and Im not aware of any of them having any level restrictions.

[Cratertina]

Lawl, I just thought... many people have legit billions. We keep the economy stable, imagine on new server, first time someone sploitz. Boom economy gets destroyed.

With developed economy exploits are less damaging, arguably exploiters also get cought easier.

In any case it sems they were cought and pricess are normalizing.

[Le-Quack]

New players get to team and level up with experienced players if they ever get a new server when relase on steam etc.
It be nice if they were allowd to run a fresh server to ao.
This game is not friendly to new players at all, you can try as much as you want but in the end the new guy will be pushed out of ao unless he is recruited by a experienced player wich will help him.
Nobady has time or will bother to guide a player to addo/pen/inf etc.
In a new server people will run those paths all the time, and as old days its just to follow the person.
Also they are very much equal to the experienced one, and will most likely have to team with the experienced ones to form teams etc when they gonna kill hecklers in ely, addo etc to get dmg. the froob suddently has same gear and wont be pushed out becose he is crapp geard.

[Rurounin]

Give fresh server plx!

[AlmightyZeus]

Ok fair enough. I misread what you meant. I was on the premise that the exploiters are still in the game. Are they not the ones driving the market up?

I can't say with any confidence how much or how little influence exploiters have. Only my observation of the economy and my experience with the inflationary changes from 2002 to now.

I think the game is in a good place with credit influx and sinks, but there is simply too much stockpile for the sinks to absorb, hence the new server which could very well put all that into balance.

eh, but that would only last for what, the first run through the game. Then people would be rolling buff monkeys of different levels and before you know it everyones all over the place again. Fair enough mate. I hold the oppinion that it would harm the game more than do it good but each to their own and all that.

We do that now. I just recruited a bunch of froobs the other night, which, when finding out they were in an active org, went to paid. The problem that I am expecting is that as they mature and want to hit the higher levels, they will have to deal with dnet or whatever other salesbots are out there and consider payin loot rights, which is just another argument for a new server.

With a new server, it will be much MUCH harder for those few to sell loot rights, if at all.

I wont. Are you talking about now or if they make a new server. I dont hang around in bor generally.

With a new server, you would be inclined to group with others for leveling, missions, tradeskilling, and buffs. Sure, people will roll buff monkeys, but that will still take a bit of time.

Nice, yeah I saw it on your signature after i wrote the post but I only mentioned it in reference to you cmplaining that most orgs dont recruit if your below 150 but if your in an org, and your org recruits lowbies... why does it matter. Rest assured there are orgs that invite under 150. Im in an org and I have access to a few org bots and Im not aware of any of them having any level restrictions.

I don't know if I would classify it as a complaint. It's simply more an observation and in fact, just last night someone was advertising for 150+ guild invites to do endgame content, don't recall the name. I'll gladly take the people they don't want and we have quite a few characters (Edit: personality wise) in the org, makes things interesting, even if I have to run subway for the 1,234,389,343,575 th time.

[AlmightyZeus]

Lawl, I just thought... many people have legit billions. We keep the economy stable, imagine on new server, first time someone sploitz. Boom economy gets destroyed.

With developed economy exploits are less damaging, arguably exploiters also get cought easier.

In any case it sems they were cought and pricess are normalizing.

Don't you think that someone with a billion credits on a brand new server would stick out like a sore thumb? Don't you think that it would make the job of finding those people like 1,000 times easier?

[Caloss2]

Isn't most of this thread mute? the only way there could be another server is if there where enough "new" subs to support it and even then probably not.

[Player1]

Isn't most of this thread mute? the only way there could be another server is if there where enough "new" subs to support it and even then probably not.

The way I see it, this thread is about making it coincide with events that will see new players or old ones coming back to give it a try. A new server will increase the chances of them staying. Simply throwing sub's at the FC wall and seeing what sticks is madness.
How many will join/rejoin up as a fr00b and see people on the shopping channels saying "1.#b" or see those kind of prices in the GMI, realise the disconnect and uninstall the game? Steam means its in a very competitive market and the new graphics can be viewed by fr00bs idling in ICC (18.7) if that's all they are looking for. AO must be worth the personal investment for a new player.
Anything they do to try and get a higher population again is a gamble but a fresh server is the best one I've seen suggested.

If people where given a chance to transfer one character per account over to the new server but they will only be able to keep what they have equipped, would it be more appealing? So no bank full of phats and their credits are all wiped. Maybe even allowing the inventory to come as well as long as there are no backpacks.
So high levels will exist and they will need to be played to get back their buffing items, etc. but a lot of new characters will still be created by everyone.

[gresh]

I can't say with any confidence how much or how little influence exploiters have. Only my observation of the economy and my experience with the inflationary changes from 2002 to now.

I think the game is in a good place with credit influx and sinks, but there is simply too much stockpile for the sinks to absorb, hence the new server which could very well put all that into balance.

Mate, I understand your issues completely I just cant agree to feeling a new server would be good. It irks me as much as you with regards to the current state of the market and peoples expectations of items they looted freely to be somehow worth what they are asking for. Combined with the understanding that the current state of the market is down to badly handled xploits and bugs that was never addressed it irks me even more but while a new server would reset this initially, it wouldnt stop people being people and its a drastic measure for the sake of 6 months to a years playtime at most because it wont be long before the same people are back to the same old tricks. On a server with as much credits and items as this one, a trillion is a lotta credits but there are plenty of people with legitimate billions so in comparison to a new server, when nobody has any creds, a million is a lotta credits. it all scales. You dont need what is considered a lot of money on this server to destroy any market of any other server. If a glitch/exploit/bug did come out that allowed them to get a lot of money fast... because there isnt trillions in game on the new server (providing it came out before trillions had been produced) It is unlikely any player would get trillions from it. Chances are the amount they would get would be negligable compared to this server but it could still cripple good honest hardworking players. Nothing changes while the attitudes stay the same. Regarding being easier to get caught... It would be harder. Unless maybe it was a new player (Or stupid player) that stumbles upon the exploit/bug/whatever because they wont of had their memory wiped... chances are if an exploit does get taken advantage of by someone... because of memories on this server... it would be kept even quiter than previous times. Obviously chances are soemone else would stumble across it too and it might get reported and closed down but there is no fundamental law that says it would be easier to catch. (Not saying everybody would take advantage and Id like to think that tehre is teh chance of decent players finding it and reporting it too but just for examples sake)

We do that now. I just recruited a bunch of froobs the other night, which, when finding out they were in an active org, went to paid. The problem that I am expecting is that as they mature and want to hit the higher levels, they will have to deal with dnet or whatever other salesbots are out there and consider payin loot rights, which is just another argument for a new server.

I would be completely fine with a server credit wipe. Credits are easy enough to get, especially when everybody would be in the same boat (having no creds and all). Just a one time action when npe goes live... wipe all current credits on active, inactive toons both inventory credits and Gmi credits and there must be some way of telling how many items are on the server, how many of each item, who has what item, if not cant a database query be made to perform the function? ... look for instances of people with multiple copies (10+?) of css or what ever flavour of combined and what ever else mighta been duped to store away in bank toons and wipe the lot to get rid of the hoarded items too. I dont know... I dont have the answer but a new server isnt it. (In my eyes)

With a new server, it will be much MUCH harder for those few to sell loot rights, if at all.

No it wont. People will be creating MB's from the word go simply with a view to monopolizing early on to get an edge up on others. Not everyone, I believe many would start afresh for real witha view to helping newbies and yadayadaya but there will be others who do. The lootrights selling wont be for a billion cred loot, it will be scaled down to what people can realistically afford. The MB's would be able to take down bigger content than current level as is the case today on this server and it wont even be good items they are selling. instead of LOX and dreadlochs and beast loot it will be unique mobs loot and totw and Gold farmers will be still buying and selling credits but the amount for sale wouldnt be 100m's to bils, more like 100k - 1m and people will still buy and people will still pay for the lootrights. New server without a big enough playerbase will just hurt the game. (in my eyes)

With a new server, you would be inclined to group with others for leveling, missions, tradeskilling, and buffs. Sure, people will roll buff monkeys, but that will still take a bit of time.

Yes alot would initially, I imagine most people would but some of us are still inclined to level with others for levellling, missions, trakeskilling and buffs already on this server. I imagine the people that would be willing on the new server if we got one are the same people that are willing on this server currently and (no proof like either way but...) if this is the case... why do we need another server.

I don't know if I would classify it as a complaint. It's simply more an observation and in fact, just last night someone was advertising for 150+ guild invites to do endgame content, don't recall the name. I'll gladly take the people they don't want and we have quite a few characters (Edit: personality wise) in the org, makes things interesting, even if I have to run subway for the 1,234,389,343,575 th time.

I believe you, I wasnt saying they dont advertise for 150+. They have done for years. Back when I first started playing there were orgs with limits. If it is filled with people who predominantly do end game stuff then there isnt much point in under 150's joining. There are still a fair few orgs about who welcome anyone and everyone though and there are other orgs who pick and choose candidates regardless of level or ability. Every body is different and everybody wants/looks for/has different needs. Its good that AO offers such freedom with such things.

I dont know... Im not tying to trivialise your problem or issues. I agree there is a problem and agree it does need sorting out. I dont know what the answer is but I dont think it is a server at this moment in time. Not that I have any say on what actually happens either way lol

[Caloss2]

The way I see it, this thread is about making it coincide with events that will see new players or old ones coming back to give it a try. A new server will increase the chances of them staying. Simply throwing sub's at the FC wall and seeing what sticks is madness.
How many will join/rejoin up as a fr00b and see people on the shopping channels saying "1.#b" or see those kind of prices in the GMI, realise the disconnect and uninstall the game? Steam means its in a very competitive market and the new graphics can be viewed by fr00bs idling in ICC (18.7) if that's all they are looking for. AO must be worth the personal investment for a new player.
Anything they do to try and get a higher population again is a gamble but a fresh server is the best one I've seen suggested.

If people where given a chance to transfer one character per account over to the new server but they will only be able to keep what they have equipped, would it be more appealing? So no bank full of phats and their credits are all wiped. Maybe even allowing the inventory to come as well as long as there are no backpacks.
So high levels will exist and they will need to be played to get back their buffing items, etc. but a lot of new characters will still be created by everyone.

No, not on any conceivable level, a new server would be dead in the water inside a month and an AO relaunch along with it. A new server isn't going to happen, and several pages of pedantic semantics isn't going to make it happen either.

[Litestrider]

No, not on any conceivable level, a new server would be dead in the water inside a month and an AO relaunch along with it. A new server isn't going to happen, and several pages of pedantic semantics isn't going to make it happen either.

You can say the same thing with the same amount of validity about the pessimistic naysaying doom forecasts. Neither side has a concrete basis for their arguments nor an economic analysis on which to base the feasibility of such a move, I doubt even Funcom does.

[gresh]

You can say the same thing with the same amount of validity about the pessimistic naysaying doom forecasts. Neither side has a concrete basis for their arguments nor an economic analysis on which to base the feasibility of such a move, I doubt even Funcom does.

Aye and similar shortsightedness not only allowed people to climb aboard an unsinkable ship but it also allowed them to deny its sinking state while it was actually sinking.

We have history on our side and years worth of experiencing some people on this server going out of their way to actively create the state the games in now. Only naivety can think things will be any different considering its the same playerpool that would fill the new server (the word fill being used very very loosely)

[AlmightyZeus]

Unless maybe it was a new player (Or stupid player) that stumbles upon the exploit/bug/whatever because they wont of had their memory wiped... chances are if an exploit does get taken advantage of by someone... because of memories on this server... it would be kept even quiter than previous times.

You would have to be quite inventive I think, to hide the credits. That's the thing with databases, you can simply aggregate credits by account and sort by amount. You can look at distributions of credits by level.

I would think someone or a small group having a disproportionate amount of credits compared to the rest of the population would stick out like santa in a penguin colony. Right now, it's a penguin in a penguin colony.

Obviously chances are soemone else would stumble across it too and it might get reported and closed down but there is no fundamental law that says it would be easier to catch. (Not saying everybody would take advantage and Id like to think that tehre is teh chance of decent players finding it and reporting it too but just for examples sake)

I'm saying that they would have to be smart about it because the amount of credits they would have would be highly disproportionate and stick out on the back end. Then all you need to do is watch that group or track how they gain their funds.

I would be completely fine with a server credit wipe. Credits are easy enough to get, especially when everybody would be in the same boat (having no creds and all). Just a one time action when npe goes live... wipe all current credits on active, inactive toons both inventory credits and Gmi credits and there must be some way of telling how many items are on the server, how many of each item, who has what item, if not cant a database query be made to perform the function? ... look for instances of people with multiple copies (10+?) of css or what ever flavour of combined and what ever else mighta been duped to store away in bank toons and wipe the lot to get rid of the hoarded items too. I dont know... I dont have the answer but a new server isnt it. (In my eyes)

A credit wipe on the server or a new server with same characters and no credits? I think that's a bad idea because you've now not only built in a knowledge advantage, but an actual level advantage and faster way to skew the economy.

You also pretty much screw anyone that has a character level 150 or lower.

No it wont. People will be creating MB's from the word go simply with a view to monopolizing early on to get an edge up on others. Not everyone, I believe many would start afresh for real witha view to helping newbies and yadayadaya but there will be others who do. The lootrights selling wont be for a billion cred loot, it will be scaled down to what people can realistically afford. The MB's would be able to take down bigger content than current level as is the case today on this server and it wont even be good items they are selling. instead of LOX and dreadlochs and beast loot it will be unique mobs loot and totw and Gold farmers will be still buying and selling credits but the amount for sale wouldnt be 100m's to bils, more like 100k - 1m and people will still buy and people will still pay for the lootrights. New server without a big enough playerbase will just hurt the game. (in my eyes)

As happens with each and every single mmo ever put out. The problem those people have is that they will not get to dominate then the way they dominate now. Everyone will be on an even keel. In fact, I'm willing to bet a lot of those people dominating now probably have no idea how to start from absolute zero.

Yes alot would initially, I imagine most people would but some of us are still inclined to level with others for levellling, missions, trakeskilling and buffs already on this server. I imagine the people that would be willing on the new server if we got one are the same people that are willing on this server currently and (no proof like either way but...) if this is the case... why do we need another server.

Willing or need to. I assert that they would need to group, not just want to group. Orgs would get a lot of attention as people will want cities to grind axp in, people to level with, trade with, get buffed by.

I played a blank server in this game. It's a very different experience than the game right now.

I believe you, I wasnt saying they dont advertise for 150+. They have done for years. Back when I first started playing there were orgs with limits. If it is filled with people who predominantly do end game stuff then there isnt much point in under 150's joining. There are still a fair few orgs about who welcome anyone and everyone though and there are other orgs who pick and choose candidates regardless of level or ability. Every body is different and everybody wants/looks for/has different needs. Its good that AO offers such freedom with such things.

Understood and I believe that it will get to that again, but probably not for a while.

I dont know... Im not tying to trivialise your problem or issues. I agree there is a problem and agree it does need sorting out. I dont know what the answer is but I dont think it is a server at this moment in time. Not that I have any say on what actually happens either way lol

[/QUOTE]

I understand and I'm certainly not trying to minimize your concerns either. What I'm arguing for is actually against my best interests as a character if I'm being honest, but I believe strongly is in the best interests of the game and it's longevity.

They have an opportunity here with the new engine and addition to steam. They are not going to get a second chance to make first impression to the new generation and I think it doesn't matter what the existing base thinks in regards to their legacy. They need to treat this like a new game coming out in order to have any hope of capturing and keeping new players. Especially new "guilds" or "clans" they hope to convert to orgs.

[Caloss2]

http://img.pandawhale.com/post-31565...if-Me-H7Ye.gif

[Enforser]

I'd like the New Engine to come with new server that is rk only, no sl/ai/le/xan... except for gmi. A Vanilla AO server.

[monkier]

I support this change because like many people, I plan on returning when the new engine comes out, and if you have to be one of the good old boys to compete in PVP, its going to make a lot of us coming back not stay as long. Don't you see that adding a new server will improve the population?

[Cratertina]

Fresh start... That is an interesting Idea.

I did that on RK2 Back in my day, 0-220 nt, selfed making friends along the way. Epic!

But, History shows there are great new booms associated with new servers, new engines. Would new server make financial sense?

Open a new server for a year or two max, while novelty lasts, then allow merges oneway to rk5.

How many more people would subscribe and stay subscribed?

I am sure funcom would open a server if 2000 people pledge to sub.

What then? How long would dream last? Before Mboxer goes 0-220 And dominates poor peeps who wait to find heckler team in ado?

[drainbamage]

Where do people get the idea that items that currently go for hundreds of millions will suddenly be bought and sold for the equivalent of a few cut pearls? It's far more likely that such items will simply be bartered until the money supply can catch up.

Also, re: new players, a clean slate would make things much worse for them. Right now new players can earn enough to deal with static costs (nanos, implants, vehicles, store bought gear), which are by far the bulk of their expenses, by selling their time to lazy established players.