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Thread: All grenade weapons to 50% defcheck

  1. #1

    All grenade weapons to 50% defcheck

    It's a good way to save that garbage weapon line for good and at all levels, and requires only fiddling with a few database entries so Michi could accomplish it with current staff levels. Plus its like all RP and ****, grenades only need to be aimed in the general direction of things you want to die etc.

    In fact lets have them be 200% attack skill grenade instead of 50% defense skill duck, just so engineers can post screenshots with 5k AR and land champion perks.
    New Engine - Announced: June 2007 ETA: Soon™ I'm speechless (June 2015)
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  2. #2
    It's less OP than you think.

    Damage will be relatively constant, engi would be shutdown badly by init debuffs, and you'd still need a fair bit of combat (supple based) armour to get fling shot capped based on grenade weap att/rech.

    Procs will slow down by 25-35% roughly depending on how much fling/burst/AS spam you're geared for, which also means less time with 13% reflect proc under continuous fighting... so that means more damage taken as well.

    Low burst damage also generally means less PVP capability.

    I think 50% isn't enough. I think grenade weaps need a crit proc or -crit resist proc, or stun proc or something to make it actually PVP capable.

    Unless of course the plan is to use grenade paired with a supernova swap

  3. #3
    Yeah, that wouldn't work at all. The issue here is that spike damage>constant damage. And dealing constant damage with ranged weapon requires you to always stand still. Move, and your offensive output drops to zero.

    In the meantime, I can do 30% spike damage while being constantly on the move, even with my back turned to opponent.

    Grenade definitely needs that AR boost (not nearly not as much as 200%), in addition to some sort of additional abilities. It can be procs, or special attacks or whatever.

  4. #4
    The thing about this, if I understand the damage formulas correctly (which isn't a given), is that you'll get more accuracy and more crits from the AR-defense comparison, but you won't actually get more damage directly like you would if your grenade skill and/or AAO were simply doubled.

    This actually presents some interesting possibilities in my opinion, you could have a contrast between a weapon that's all but guaranteed to hit but deals less overall damage, and a weapon that relies more on raw skills to hit but will hit harder and more consistently if it does.

  5. #5
    Why not go the whole hog and make the auto-attack (and specials!) damage always AoE? That would be effing hilarious.

    Ophiuchus : 220/30/80 HAHA etc
    Nahuatl
    :: 220/30/80 Melee 4lyfe
    Khurkh :: 220/30/80 healtankpew
    Transcendence
    Msanthropic
    : 210/26/60 nanostab
    Spidershiva :: 165/23/42 kite? eh?
    Silentmotion
    : 150/20/42 tankthink
    The Union

  6. #6
    Yus, gif....preferably 50% DEF. and AOE on fling shot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  7. #7
    A 5m aoe for grenade would be neat. Hell give it to 2hb too.


  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiuchus View Post
    Why not go the whole hog and make the auto-attack (and specials!) damage always AoE? That would be effing hilarious.
    This was actually mentioned elsewhere at some point, I think by traders. AoE damage is an area that most profession are severely lacking in, and would be a good way to make some weapons (in their case shotguns, in this case grenades) very distinct and flavorful. Apart from just making all attacks AoE, some other solutions would be possible, like a fast-recharging "ammo" items similar to what fixers get (but more useful and hopefully scaling with your weapon somehow), or a new AoE special attack that gets unlocked when using a grenade and/or shotgun weapon with enough skill.

    However it's done, I'd love to see this! My only caveat is that I don't think it should be tied to any one profession. Lots of professions are capable of using grenade to some extent, even if it's far from the norm and is practically orphaned.

  9. #9
    Ya I saw the suggestion for shotguns getting a 5m AOE for shotguns on trader thread, was before PDKP tho so I'm sure traders are content enough with DD now heh. I like the idea of AOE on grenade but prefer the use of Special ammo like Litestrider suggested to AOE mobs as I'm sure we all know the reason all non-Engi Grenade setups would be made for if it AOEd on regulars/Specials, I'm sure hitting 800k+ DPM at sec13 would make anyone hard but it would be alittle excessive for anything not called NT or Engi(if implemented for Engis).

  10. #10
    Well the idea being that you can't turn off the AoE. So if you have calmed mobs or other targets you'd rather not hit nearby you have to pick which one to centre your attacks on very, very carefully... Risk vs reward.

    I'd vote for it

    Ophiuchus : 220/30/80 HAHA etc
    Nahuatl
    :: 220/30/80 Melee 4lyfe
    Khurkh :: 220/30/80 healtankpew
    Transcendence
    Msanthropic
    : 210/26/60 nanostab
    Spidershiva :: 165/23/42 kite? eh?
    Silentmotion
    : 150/20/42 tankthink
    The Union

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiuchus View Post
    Well the idea being that you can't turn off the AoE. So if you have calmed mobs or other targets you'd rather not hit nearby you have to pick which one to centre your attacks on very, very carefully... Risk vs reward.

    I'd vote for it
    +1!
    Rajib - 220 Shotgun Doctor | Businessraj - 220 Shotgun Trader | Nanquan 210+ MA | Blasi - 209 ME Keeper | Rajliana - 200 bow MA ++++++

    WTB Red and blue teams in BS. Thanks Michi!

  12. #12
    you are going about this all wrong, getting every grenade weapon in the database changed to do some kind of AOE dmg isnt going to happen.
    What you should be asking for, is the simple and easy option....
    Ask for Grenades!

    Good ones, ones that, are actualy worth using and cast AOE nuke on target when they land (personaly I'd also ask for a 2 second stun on top of the dmg inflicted)
    with same req to use as sloth of xan at ql300 and maybe a couple lower ql versions (but not TOO low, or everyone would be using them)

    Then you can look at those as "the new special" or what ever, AND you have complete control over where and when they are used.
    Quote Originally Posted by egadsrk2 View Post
    In the case of this little drama, Party A created a situation. Party B perpetuated it with name calling. Party A finished it with violence...
    I was "party A"

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Uaintseenme View Post
    you are going about this all wrong, getting every grenade weapon in the database changed to do some kind of AOE dmg isnt going to happen.
    What you should be asking for, is the simple and easy option....
    Ask for Grenades!

    Good ones, ones that, are actualy worth using and cast AOE nuke on target when they land (personaly I'd also ask for a 2 second stun on top of the dmg inflicted)
    with same req to use as sloth of xan at ql300 and maybe a couple lower ql versions (but not TOO low, or everyone would be using them)

    Then you can look at those as "the new special" or what ever, AND you have complete control over where and when they are used.
    Been asking for them for years. They gave us those BS mines instead.
    Waiting for a cure.

  14. #14
    The most fitting usage of BS abbreviation in history of these forums.
    Tinfoil hat makes me bald and it really is a pain
    I feel it every morning when I see the shower drain.
    That being said, it wasn't all in vain,
    At least the aliens aren't probing my brain.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Mostadio View Post
    Been asking for them for years. They gave us those BS mines instead.
    ...... yeah those are totaly my fault.
    In my defense I wasnt expecting them to be BS only and it was something for nothing.

    (also i still like dropping the snare mines on soldiers when i run up and hug them)
    Quote Originally Posted by egadsrk2 View Post
    In the case of this little drama, Party A created a situation. Party B perpetuated it with name calling. Party A finished it with violence...
    I was "party A"

  16. #16
    Don't want grenades I want a railgun heavy weapon that is supported by perks symbs items etc and has access to AS FA etc in some form or the other.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Uaintseenme View Post
    ...... yeah those are totaly my fault.
    In my defense I wasnt expecting them to be BS only and it was something for nothing.

    (also i still like dropping the snare mines on soldiers when i run up and hug them)
    I abused the crap out of those on BS. They can be fun and have their uses, but some kind of targeted special ammo grenade that has cool effects like snare/root/stun/damage/nano-damage/turns everyone into a dancing leet would have been better =/
    Waiting for a cure.

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