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Thread: MA Balance

  1. #1

    MA Balance

    Well my thought are FC could start with changing the disharmony perkline for MA, since it got nerfed twice > no damage proc and a lower healing proc.

    Every other Profession got a significant boost to damage from the (damage nano patch) while MA's got nerfed

  2. #2
    I'm pretty sure martial artists don't need any power gains.

    You were pretty powerful, not really overpowered, before +dmg to nano, but you definitely weren't shelved in any way because of it.
    Last edited by wonderland; Apr 6th, 2013 at 05:01:37.

  3. #3
    Shouldn't a MA be setting just behind a shade for damage?

    Seeing that when it comes to dishing out raw combat damage a Martial Artist outshines all other professions.

    I believe Shades, Eng, NT and Crats do more damage.

    Giving MA's back the dmg proc after the add damage nano patch would go a long way to putting the profession where it needs to be according to FC description.

  4. #4
    In regards to PvM,

    In my honest opinion, those professions do too much damage. They all, I believe, should be lowered.

    But, I could see a martial artist being tweaked to higher damage than a shade being reasonable, as a shade compensates with other benefits, such as shade's caress and drains.
    Last edited by wonderland; Apr 6th, 2013 at 09:12:32.

  5. #5
    Hey, leave Shades out of this. MAs get higher static evades and much better healing, alongside all their damage being of one damage type; a Shade has three (Poison, Melee and Cold for some reason)

  6. #6
    No they don't, and 90% of that does not legitimately make a different in PvM, but, yeah, sure, whatever.

    If static evades even mattered, shades drain a target as soon as they get within range of it. and you're, 98% of the time, not tanking in a team as a martial artist.
    Last edited by wonderland; Apr 6th, 2013 at 15:55:30.
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  7. #7
    I think MAs should be second to Shades; keep in mind that an MA can deal with several targets far better than a Shade (Just change targets. Shades have to line up all perks and such.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyoming View Post
    I think MAs should be second to Shades; keep in mind that an MA can deal with several targets far better than a Shade (Just change targets. Shades have to line up all perks and such.
    Thats sort of true.

    MA's can just shift+Q... but when it comes to debuffing, MA's are just as 1 dimensional as shades.. like, we can only debuff 1 target and only for 20ish seconds anyway.

  9. #9
    We can only debuff our fighting target effectively.

  10. #10
    One aspect of DPSing that this conversation hasn't covered is the relative lack of compatibility between PVP setup MA's and PVM requirements.

    A properly PVP setup MA is about 60% effective in PVM as a DPS prof.

    A properly PVP setup Shade is about 90% effective in PVM as a DPS prof.

    MA loses a LARGE chunk of DPS capability when switching to pure fist. With the loss of a nice quick recharging fast attack on offer with a triple wield kuma tonfa setup as the best case scenario for PVM MA's, you're looking at a loss of 25 hits per minute (45% loss), significantly impacting proc chance, and becoming significantly more dependent on target AC's to produce good damage.

  11. #11
    May the Sploitz be with u Ciex's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by NayNay9 View Post
    Shouldn't a MA be setting just behind a shade for damage?
    Why? Is there any reason for MAs to do moire dmg than traders for example? I kinda miss point in this "X should do more damage".

  12. #12
    Well Ciex, lets see if i can explain why a MA should do really good damage and only come in second to a Shade and maybe an NT.

    Part of FC descriptions for the Martial Artist is : When it comes to dealing raw combat damage a Martial Artist outshines all other professions.

    I believe Shades rely on perks for the high damage and not just raw combat damage.

    But this is just my opinion.

    I would be very interested in hearing what you think the damage capability of a Martial Artist should be in relation to the other profession.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by NayNay9 View Post
    Shouldn't a MA be setting just behind a shade for damage?
    There is no "x shoud be better than y". Some professions are just better. its hard to imagine there is any design behind that though.
    Last edited by Otansaanpas; May 16th, 2013 at 11:51:39.
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  14. #14
    While I don't really give a damn about this stuff in general, I do find it a bit incredulous that FC has the nerve to suggest on the COVER PAGE FOR ALL PROFS that MA is the best DPS prof in game, yet, at ultimate level/setup, is significantly slower at DPS than crat/eng/shade/NT

    I mean, sure, MA's can do good damage. But, it has to be a dedicated build.

    I have an engi in a PVP setup that will wipe the floor with my MA in a PVM build (and I'm not talking living symbs and oddball armor).

    MA with 2 calculators, 15% scope, dual tonfas, 5x 300 CC DB chest/Ofab pants/ 5/5 fire arul, etc, is great for PVM, no question... you can produce solid DPS numbers, easily 300-325k DPM without too much effort, but this setup blows goats in PVP.

    Engi on the other hand, 6x 300 CC, DB chest swap<-> jathos, ERBP, 2x DB bracers, standard util/hud setup and no special items is easily producing 350k DPM and is HIGHLY viable in PVP.

    If I were to re-build MA for PVP, there would be no contest. MA will sit around 280k DPM best case scenario in RK, and that will drop to about 200-230k in SL.

    200-230k DPM is a far f**king cry from "outshining all other professions"
    Last edited by McKnuckleSamwich; May 17th, 2013 at 04:21:44. Reason: spelling mistakes

  15. #15
    I tried to really push an MA setup for damage and ended up with just under 290k DPM on the test server bug with massive AC's. Not sure how to push that beyond 300k and it wasn't easy to do that damage either, might have used the wrong type of setup though (damage add focused instead of crit focused, can't remember).

    Shades just need a damage nerf, considering self-buffed in an incomplete setup I can push 400k DPM.

    Damage patch also boosted MA toolset and damage quite a bit, especially allowing ape fist to deal exceptional damage while providing a steady PVE stun. The nerf to disharmony sucked of course, would like to see it changed so that it benefits from damage but not so that the healing is boosted.

  16. #16
    afaik, MA's are one of the few professions that crit will outperform add dmg against high AC targets - using a trip weild setup.

    I don't think it's by much though. Nearly all other profs will benefit more from add dmg against high AC's, at least from my memory.

    Using pure fist in high AC environment is worthless, it's such a significant drawback to be fighting a high AC target that I think it pays off even to swap on one tonfa/shen stick.

  17. #17
    I think the best way to put it is that MA's are one of those professions in AO that simply got forgotten about. The perfect example of this is that lack of a beast weapon for years and even now with tonfa's they still don't stand on equal grounds.

    It's like MA's has had a lack of identity for years. We are supposed to be DD, but we are clearly out gunned by several profs easily while we struggle to ink out the DD, we can't really tank, can't really heal, can't really support, can't really pvp etc etc. The ebb and flow of AO long ago left us as mediocre toons that are the 5th best toon at doing a few things.

    MAs need a lot of work from a development stand point. They need need a real role to play, they need fists as a weapon reworked, they need all sorts of stuff. I love mine and loved playing it, but in reality its a pain as im not good enough at any one thing to get the job done.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by NayNay9 View Post
    Part of FC descriptions for the Martial Artist is : When it comes to dealing raw combat damage a Martial Artist outshines all other professions.
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    While I don't really give a damn about this stuff in general, I do find it a bit incredulous that FC has the nerve to suggest on the COVER PAGE FOR ALL PROFS that MA is the best DPS prof in game, yet, at ultimate level/setup, is significantly slower at DPS than crat/eng/shade/NT
    Keep in mind those Cover Page Descriptions are not really updated. You should keep in ind they are really from Notum Wars and earlier.

    Shadowlands and every expansion has changed those dynamics. The true vision of the AO "creators" would be professions lined up vs each other as 200 froobs. Once you have that perspective you can understand how each expansion has blurred some proffesion lines and specialties with perks/procs/new equipment/new nanos.

    The original DD profs and evade profs from 2001 have been up ended. The old froob advy used to be a liability with the jack of all trades setup, now look at it today. Just as an example.
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  19. #19
    not to be a stickler on a point psikie, but if what you say is true, the notum wars expansion would have to have been the absolute worst time to say that MA's outshie all other professions.

    Consider the obvious: towers have crit resist.

    Hence, for a profession that really is crit dependent, MA's actually drop to being significantly worse off DPS wise than EVEN DOCTORS vs towers.

    No lie, thats f*cked up.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    not to be a stickler on a point psikie, but if what you say is true, the notum wars expansion would have to have been the absolute worst time to say that MA's outshie all other professions.

    Consider the obvious: towers have crit resist.

    Hence, for a profession that really is crit dependent, MA's actually drop to being significantly worse off DPS wise than EVEN DOCTORS vs towers.

    No lie, thats f*cked up.
    Except CT's would have been critted, and taking more damage from MA's than likely any other profession. Then you also consider the weapons available to player's back then. There were no mortiig weapons, SL weapons or AI weapons. When notum wars was introduced I believe dyna weapons and CoH weapons were yet to have been introduced even.

    This means that the only real choices players had to deal damage would have been the old RK weapons (most of which are highly dependant on critical damage) or TOTW weapons.

    I believe, comparatively, that an MA's fist damage along with their crits would have been superior damage than anything else available.

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