Please fix the spawn rate and/or placement in the Mantis Hive!

[Litestrider]

I know this has been suggested countless times, but it is a huge annoyance to me and a lot of other people, and it's gone unfixed for a long time now!

The Mantis Hive is one of the most popular group dailies in my experience, it's rare to find an empty instance. And that's great! The dungeon sat mostly empty for far too long apart from the occasional person going after eggs for VTEs or one of the items that dropped in there which were mostly gimmicks and sub-par. The daily missions (as well as the tunnels and the Borealis entrance) breathed new life into the dungeon.

But this change isn't all good. The dailies have you kill a large number of mantises and smugglers, usually almost all of that particular enemy available. With the popularity of the missions, you'll almost always run into another group running the mission, and chances are the groups will be large enough that you can't just merge together. Now in most cases this isn't a big deal, just wait a few minutes, maybe grab a sandwich, a glass of water, have a cigarette, whatever and it'll be ready. However when the dungeon was updated, its spawns weren't. I'm not sure exactly how long it takes for things to respawn, but it's at least 15 minutes, and given how easy it is for groups to step on one anothers' toes things get bogged down really fast.

So how do we fix this? Well, I see two potential solutions. First is the easiest, just increase all the spawn rates. The enemies can be calmed and rooted, and there are mantises running everywhere at all times, so I don't think fast repops would hamper anyone's progress and yet it would alleviate the traffic jams that are so common! Another solution that would require some careful thought and maybe even map edits would be to increase the number of each daily mission monster available. The problem with this one is that crowding the dungeon will cause it to present a lot more challenge, upsetting the ability for people to do it on-level. There are a lot of 220s that cruise through the place, but there are plenty of people who do it at lower levels too, we don't want to squash their enthusiasm!

To get a bit more nebulous about the issue, I think it breeds a bit of an atmosphere of contempt, selfishness, and unhelpfulness. I see a lot of lowbies begging for help with the ravagers daily, and personally while I usually love helping people out, I tend to ignore them because it's such an awful mission purely because of the traffic issues. In addition, inside the dungeon itself there's rarely much negotiation or talking, just a lot of stealing kills and screwing over each other because "if I can't have an easy win nobody can", or at least that's the way it comes across. I know it annoys everyone involved, and most of the people would be nice and fun to play with in any other situation. My point is that I just don't think the situation is good for the game or the community.

Anyway, I think this nano-mantis is finally about to respawn, so I'll end this post here!

Edit:
Some lengthy posts have been exchanged and I think the important outcome is a new suggestion that may work better than either speeding up spawns or adding more. The playfield could be split into an instanced and public version similar to Pandemonium. The entrance from Borealis and the one-room exit from the Smuggler's Den could be used to create a staging area where you choose between the instanced and open playfields. The entrance in SFH could simply remain an entrance to the public version. This would neatly solve the issues, but would at the same time be less asocial than simply instancing it completely.

[Anonimofied]

please play the game as it is, please stop coming up with suggestions on how to fix this and fix that because eventhough some ideas and suggestionss may looks good in theory but not working as intended in practise. imagine fc increase the spawnrate then some lonely guy playing in different time zone than you complaining the spawns is too fast and ragequit.

[Litestrider]

please play the game as it is, please stop coming up with suggestions on how to fix this and fix that because eventhough some ideas and suggestionss may looks good in theory but not working as intended in practise. imagine fc increase the spawnrate then some lonely guy playing in different time zone than you complaining the spawns is too fast and ragequit.

First, I mentioned this specifically: the Mantis Hive is a very chaotic place already, it's rare to ever get a moment to breathe in there. Mantises and smugglers are always patrolling and attacking from all angles, and that's if someone hasn't pulled the spawns all over! I believe having faster respawns would be barely noticeable and would in fact fit in the theme and gameplay of the dungeon rather well.

Second, you came onto a forum titled "Game Suggestions" and told someone not to make any game suggestions. Very classy.

[Anonimofied]

imagine a froob who have waited on lft for 50 minutes and decided to go to smuggles den to finish dailys alone. we all know froobies damage sucks so he she will probably spending more time to kill a single mob. your suggestions may suits you and players like you, but it doesnt takes froobs into accounting. all i can say is becareful of what you wish for, a good suggestion or idea must benefits everyone.

[Litestrider]

You're making the assumption that I don't play froobs.

[Anonimofied]

you may be froob but since you have forum account yu probably have paid toon aswell. every froobs who have paid toon is therefor classified as resourcefull froobs in terms of credits, equipment or resourcefull in terms of game mechanism knowledge. a good suggestion must benefits everyone including fresh froobs, gimpy froobs, noobfroobs. as you ca see theres not only 1 type but many types of froobs that needs to be taken into consideration.

[Cratertina]

faster respawns would promote spawncamping them mobs. They already give similar xp to hecks....

[Litestrider]

faster respawns would promote spawncamping them mobs. They already give similar xp to hecks....

Finally an actual concern!

I ran around and killed a few things just to check, just because it sounded fun. I used a level 185 character, same buffs, team etc for all kills. I killed a level 171 elysium heckler and got 97460 xp. A level 210 ado heck gave me 469556.

In the mantis hive I killed the ones related to the high level daily:
Ravager: level 182, 70539 xp
Nano-mantis: level 184 - 73506 xp
Guardian: level 193 - 87757 xp
Breeder: level 195 - 91131 xp

And then I went and rolled a RK mission at level 185:
Veteran enforcer: level 187, 18806 xp
Hellhound: level 187, 32639 xp
Mantis Guardian: level 189, 19740 xp

Now of course the adonis heckler's xp is inflated somewhat because of its higher level. The breeders do indeed give comparable xp to an elysium heckler, however I don't know if they're significantly more or less challenging. They certainly have a ton of hp and can stab holes in a TL5 character!

"So then I'm right! The Mantis Hive is full of hecker-mobs!", well, the caveat there is that elysium hecklers aren't exactly level-appropriate anymore by 185, even at 150 (the cutoff for getting the deep den daily and thus presumably the target level range), elysium hecklers are considered mostly fodder for soloers and bored people. Ado hecks are considered the standard for late TL 4 and TL5, and the mantises don't even hold a candle to them.

I don't think even with significantly increased spawn rates that the mantis hive will become a hot leveling spot. Perhaps for froobs it will become competitive with borgs and IS, but isn't that exactly the sort of thing we want? The only real reason leveling in the hive is a problem now is because the spawn rates are so slow that it can't support any real teams! A combination of increased spawn rates and the already-in-place instancing system would handle this quite elegantly I think. If the spawn rates were decent a leveling team could work alongside daily runners without much fuss (especially toward the breeder end where there are lots of extra spawns), and if multiple teams moved in, extra instances would be activated and the crowd would be alleviated (which doesn't work now since the spawns are still so sluggish they can't even support two people).

It seems to me like they balanced the xp to be comparable to SL mobs. Personally, I think that's just fine! After all, the main impetus for daily missions is that most xp sources were far too slow and miserable. It's completely valid to feel otherwise though and I'm glad you brought this up.

Personally, what leaps out at me from looking at these (and I might go check some other mobs later!) is that RK mission xp is way too low! I think RK missions need a significant buff in the xp department, but that's another gripe for another thread.

[gresh]

Yeah sorry but I agree with unidentified. For a lvl 185 or 200 or 220... Yeah I can see this being a relative suggestion but I have a 150 trader and ma im currently collecting research on and the mantis den is ok as it is. I disagree with your vision of what the mantis cave currently is. Most times I run through I manage to find people to team with, sometimes these have a 220 in tow but sometimes not. What I've found is that people are generally more than happy to team and I've only breen ignored by a team once in months. So it seems not as many people rush past ignoring as you may think. Obviously when I'm in a team, your suggested changes would probably improve the speed of the mission but when I'm not teamed, especially on my trader but also on my ma... If the spawn times were increased... I probably wouldn't make it through a large crowd of mobs before clearing them all especially when I get down to guardians/breeders when they start taking longer to kill.

[Litestrider]

I would come back at this by comparing it to the other team dailies. You can't solo them on most characters at the lowest level, either. The subway at whatever level it starts, probably 1, is instant death past the infectors. The temple gets brutal past the entrance. Foreman's is ridiculous for a level 61. And the low mantis hive and smuggler's den are really nasty too. Not to mention IS at 125. I don't think you're supposed to be able to solo the whole team daily at the minimum level. You can do some of it no doubt, but even as it is the ravagers and nano-mantises are the worst, most add heavy part. I can see where having faster spawn rates might require you to make some careful pulls and tactical decisions, as you already do, but I don't believe they'd make it any worse than it is.

[Cratertina]

Let me go back on my statement, if respawn gets any better I would consider SD as a nice place to just kill stuff and level. Maybe thats a good thing, just not good for people who want mobs for dailies.

[Litestrider]

Let me go back on my statement, if respawn gets any better I would consider SD as a nice place to just kill stuff and level. Maybe thats a good thing, just not good for people who want mobs for dailies.

I don't see how it could get much worse, haha!

Right now the spawns can't even support 2 people doing a daily, much less a group properly leveling. The instancing system will activate when the dungeon gets crowded, but each instance still only supports one team killing mantises so it doesn't actually go anywhere productive. If the spawns were increased such that the dungeon could support 2 or more teams, then first off the instancing would work properly to give more people access to mantises, because the number of people required for an instance to the number of people the dungeon can support are much closer together. And second, if a team were to be leveling, faster spawns would allow someone to pick a few off for a daily. Since a leveling group wouldn't particularly care what kinds of mantises they were killing, the two groups could sort of slide past one another, the leveling group moving down to breeders if a daily team starts on ravagers, and then they work opposite directions, skipping a few spawns in the middle. It would all work quite smooth and organically, like if you're leveling in any of the dungeons where people camp things for loot or quests, you just bypass those spawns. Sure there will be occasional quibbles, there always are, but unlike gresh I've seen a lot of animosity in the Mantis Hive and I think a situation like this would be much less confrontational.

And again, that's if people actually decide to grind mantises in the first place.

[Legendfluf]

Imagine a time when people get mad at other people because they have a different thought process than them. *Looks at thread* oh, seems it happened already.

Why not just make the place an instance? Like pande.

[Litestrider]

Imagine a time when people get mad at other people because they have a different thought process than them. *Looks at thread* oh, seems it happened already.

Why not just make the place an instance? Like pande.

Maybe you or I one misread some posts, but I don't see anyone that seems mad here. In fact I really like the points that Cratertina and gresh brought up, even though I disagree!

Being able to "force" an instance would be a nice solution I think, but I also think a lot of people would feel like something would be lost in the process. That spontaneous meeting of people can be a positive thing, when they aren't always competing for the same extremely limited resources.

[gresh]

I would come back at this by comparing it to the other team dailies. You can't solo them on most characters at the lowest level, either. The subway at whatever level it starts, probably 1, is instant death past the infectors. The temple gets brutal past the entrance. Foreman's is ridiculous for a level 61. And the low mantis hive and smuggler's den are really nasty too. Not to mention IS at 125. I don't think you're supposed to be able to solo the whole team daily at the minimum level. You can do some of it no doubt, but even as it is the ravagers and nano-mantises are the worst, most add heavy part. I can see where having faster spawn rates might require you to make some careful pulls and tactical decisions, as you already do, but I don't believe they'd make it any worse than it is.

Hmm Ok I'm going to compare it with Mantis den. It used to have much longer spawn rates and they were reduced (I think around the time XP was raised in RK dungeons) The queen was reduced from 70 mins or so for a %chance of a spawn and the mobs from 30 or 25 minutes? Cant remember but they have had a reduction in the time it takes to spawn and the XP has had an increase, I remember because someone I know was complaining that now 150's would never be able to do the daily and he kicked up quite a fuss over it but as it happened we were fine . To say people cant do other content at different levels is completely non sensical as 150's have been able to do this dungeon for a long time, before the daily even came into existance, if not always and unless twinked heavily, players have never been able to do the others. Before the mob spawn times were reduced, they could do it even easier. They have been reduced enough to speed it up but not enough to stop capable people of the lower end of the level spectrum to do the quest on their own albiet taking a lot longer than higher level characters to do so. You suggest

Another solution that would require some careful thought and maybe even map edits would be to increase the number of each daily mission monster available. The problem with this one is that crowding the dungeon will cause it to present a lot more challenge, upsetting the ability for people to do it on-level.

But dont seem to give a flying toot that both of your suggestions would upset my ability to be able to do it on-level. If people teamed more for it, there wouldnt need to be so many 220's running alts through which would mean more slots available in teams, if people didn't ignore other people because of any reason there would be a lot more friendly atmosphere and people who dont have 220 alts/friends would be able to get the quest done without needing to wait for spawns regardless of how much they were reduced. You state

To get a bit more nebulous about the issue, I think it breeds a bit of an atmosphere of contempt, selfishness, and unhelpfulness. I see a lot of lowbies begging for help with the ravagers daily, and personally while I usually love helping people out, I tend to ignore them because it's such an awful mission purely because of the traffic issues. In addition, inside the dungeon itself there's rarely much negotiation or talking, just a lot of stealing kills and screwing over each other because "if I can't have an easy win nobody can", or at least that's the way it comes across. I know it annoys everyone involved, and most of the people would be nice and fun to play with in any other situation. My point is that I just don't think the situation is good for the game or the community.

I mean wtf, you say that you want to change mantis den because your sick of waiting on spawns and how nobody teams up inside, you also go onto say how you normally love to help people out but not in mantis den... you are complaining of the same thing you are a culprit of. Try being nicer to people, maybe the people that ignore you and steal your kills are people that you have steamrolled passed in the past and are now just repaying in kind. Don't try changing the game... Try a change of attitude. Be nicer to people, and maybe they will be nicer back. I normally dont have problems getting a team inside mantis den. There has been times when I havent been able to get in the team due to it being full already or them not seeing the chat or maybe straight out ignore me and they just steamroll through but generally... lately especially, people do generally merge teams if there is enough space to cater for it. In the instances where this hasn't happened I am forced to wait like anyone but that is the same regardless of the level or the content. There has always been nice people playing and there has always been people more selfishly inclined. Over the years ive met a few plebs but I met awesome people in there from random teams, some of who I play with to this day on a daily basis.

I mean dont get me wrong, the mission covers quite a large level range so people tend to stay on it awhile. IF its a toon you play daily you get to do the mission with the same set of people, maybe not everyone in the set everyday but over a given time you have a set player pool that plays when you play. Over the years on one toon or another ive seemed to be in the same player set as a few selfish people and ive had to level against em and fight for the daily mobs etc and they have been incredibly selfish when it comes to steamrolling passed and leaving me for dead, oding everything in sight and it has been really frustrating. There has been moments when I have refused to do the daily for awhile. Played another char or done one of the other dailies and just cut the place out of my routine but it isnt cos the mobs dont spawn quick enough, its not cos there aint enough of them. Its just because Ive been unlucky enough to be set up against some selfish mofo's who dont care about the effect they have on other peoples play.

I think the instancing is the best solution if one is actually required and have wondered at times when i have been steamrolled if it would but like you I think it would detract the whole MMO feel more, I would hate to lose the ability to pick up random teams. Maybe have a communal entranceway everybody shares (Just a room ike IS's entrance room) with a zone point into the teams instance from there so anyone who doesnt have a team and cant do it solo can hang around for others to come in and join?

[Litestrider]

Wow, where do I start. You seem to have taken completely the wrong impression away from several of my posts.

You suggest... But dont seem to give a flying toot that both of your suggestions would upset my ability to be able to do it on-level.

This is mainly because the specifics of such a change are undefined, by their very nature. I believe that there is definitely a balance that could be struck between a change to make more spawns available and rendering the dungeon only possible by 220s. You seem to think it's one or the other, don't you think that there's a point at which the spawns could be accessible enough for dailies to be easy without making it so overbearing that people are unable to do the quest in small groups or even solo?

If people teamed more for it, there wouldnt need to be so many 220's running alts through which would mean more slots available in teams

This goes right back to what I was talking about with Cratertina, better spawns would create more incentive to team there, but I don't think that's a bad thing. Your scenario here appears to be self-solving, because higher likelihood of teams and increased interest in teaming there and leading people through would make it easier for a solo or small group player to go through himself, whether they join an existing team, or whether the teams simply help keep the spawns thinner.

I mean wtf, you say that you want to change mantis den because your sick of waiting on spawns and how nobody teams up inside, you also go onto say how you normally love to help people out but not in mantis den... you are complaining of the same thing you are a culprit of.

My being nicer to people isn't going to make spawns happen faster. The issue is with the game mechanics themselves, and they create the problems in the community. I'm always courteous when I'm going through the dungeon, but others aren't, I get my spawns sniped several times per run which makes a relatively short hunt sometimes take hours. Because what should be such an easy daily becomes so miserable, I rarely even do it for my own character, let alone other peoples.

Try being nicer to people, maybe the people that ignore you and steal your kills are people that you have steamrolled passed in the past and are now just repaying in kind.

Now you're just putting words in my mouth and making blatant assumptions. It's very, very rare that I steal a kill or "steamroll" someone. I almost always help people out, often logging in several characters at a time just for them. Any time someone's begging for buffs, fgrid, a trip through SoM, or other dailies, I'm almost always happy to help. I love helping people out, it's most of the reason I play the game. This is honestly very insulting.

...people do generally merge teams if there is enough space to cater for it.

This is the very problem I want to be addressed. There isn't enough space to cater for it more often than not, because the slow spawns make people reluctant to go there, and they bunch up when they do, so the teams will already often either leave full or merge multiple times very quickly, and then you have multiple 6-man teams camping the same few ravagers. This all has to do with the spawns, none of it is the faults of the players.

There has been moments when I have refused to do the daily for awhile. Played another char or done one of the other dailies and just cut the place out of my routine but it isnt cos the mobs dont spawn quick enough, its not cos there aint enough of them. Its just because Ive been unlucky enough to be set up against some selfish mofo's who dont care about the effect they have on other peoples play.

I think you're projecting on these people. I seriously doubt most of them want to snipe, steamroll, steal or whatever. Most of them are in the exact same spot as you, they just want to get the damn quest over with because things keep getting in their way. Most people will get frustrated in this situation and many will start acting rashly and lashing out, stealing spawns and whatnot. It's not their fault, they've been pushed to the edge by the game mechanics and the way you have to tiptoe on eggshells to not interrupt someone else's quest in the hive.

I think the instancing is the best solution if one is actually required and have wondered at times when i have been steamrolled if it would but like you I think it would detract the whole MMO feel more, I would hate to lose the ability to pick up random teams. Maybe have a communal entranceway everybody shares (Just a room ike IS's entrance room) with a zone point into the teams instance from there so anyone who doesnt have a team and cant do it solo can hang around for others to come in and join?

This is a fine suggestion. Similarly, they could do with it what they did with Pandemonium, leave the un-instanced version of the playfield intact and introduce a new, instanced version. This would allow anyone being carried by 220s or anyone who just wants some alone time to have their own private playground, and people who want to team up and see others roaming around can join the public playfield. Things might get a little quieter, but they'll be more lively than if it were all instances and at the same time almost all of the conflicts will either be solved or easily solvable.

The only issue I can see with a pande-like treatment would be the queen being easier to farm, but I doubt we're worried about that. The mantis egg has always been the easiest component of the VTE to farm even when she was a rare sight, and her swords are almost always left to rot.

[gresh]

This is mainly because the specifics of such a change are undefined, by their very nature. I believe that there is definitely a balance that could be struck between a change to make more spawns available and rendering the dungeon only possible by 220s. You seem to think it's one or the other, don't you think that there's a point at which the spawns could be accessible enough for dailies to be easy without making it so overbearing that people are unable to do the quest in small groups or even solo?

You are putting words in my mouth, I dont think it can be done by one or the other. I just dont see why not being able to steamroll enough people to be able to get your daily done in 5 minutes flat with zero competition has to impact my ability to complete the quest. You have what you deem to be an issue with the way it currently is but yet you refute any concern that any others have about your suggestion as being a non issue but your changes could well stop my ability to be able to complete it solo. You say you don't think it was designed to be completed by people of my level solo but personally I think if the elite dailies were supposed to be completed in 5 minutes flat with no waiting for mobspawns or dealing with competition then they would be set up that way. At 220 they practically are like that with prisoners but for levelling characters that isnt really ever the case. So much of this game offers so much competition for mobs/items/whatever but most of these instances of "competition" would resolve the whole competition factor if people were a lil nicer to eachother and allowed people in their teams. Youve heard of car pool right? think of this as mob pool. Share the load, share the quest, share the mobs, simple!

This goes right back to what I was talking about with Cratertina, better spawns would create more incentive to team there, but I don't think that's a bad thing. Your scenario here appears to be self-solving, because higher likelihood of teams and increased interest in teaming there and leading people through would make it easier for a solo or small group player to go through himself, whether they join an existing team, or whether the teams simply help keep the spawns thinner.

Ok well im going to just talk within the scope of the daily because nobody (that I've seen) goes to mantis den to level outside the daily. Havent done for years. afaik people go for either daily or for item farming (great place for farming eggs/bracers/old school lowbie doc armor/soul frags/metals/NS1). People would be more likely to team up currently as it is as there aint enough mobs. What about on days when you go through and you don't see anybody. Quite often I have managed to go through with my trader which takes ages to kill each mob and haven't seen anyone. What would somebody who could solo it but now cant do when there are too many mobs spawning to tackle on their own but yet no body else comes through. You are suggesting a change that would ruin some peoples chances of gaining a mission complete or at least making them wait in hope of a) somebody coming along & B) being allowed in team.

My being nicer to people isn't going to make spawns happen faster. The issue is with the game mechanics themselves, and they create the problems in the community. I'm always courteous when I'm going through the dungeon, but others aren't, I get my spawns sniped several times per run which makes a relatively short hunt sometimes take hours. Because what should be such an easy daily becomes so miserable, I rarely even do it for my own character, let alone other peoples.

Yes I know, I never thought it would. What it would do, is let you be seen in a nice light giving people more incentive to team with you because why would anyone team with anyone who they have seen repeatedly rush passed them killing the mobs they need. Not many would give you the same thing you denied them. Its quite simple. It seems to me you are annoyed at others doing the same to you what you openly admitted doing to others and now you just want to increase the spawn rate regardless of what effect this has on other people. The issue isn't the number of spawns or the time they take to spawn but the attitudes of people that play the game. Being so unwilling to pick up a team if they have space, just for stupid reasons like "traffic issues" isnt doing anyone any favours. Adding the elements that make up the traffic to your team eliminates the very traffic taht annoys you. The elements that create problems in the community are the actions and attitudes of members of the community.

Now you're just putting words in my mouth and making blatant assumptions. It's very, very rare that I steal a kill or "steamroll" someone. I almost always help people out, often logging in several characters at a time just for them. Any time someone's begging for buffs, fgrid, a trip through SoM, or other dailies, I'm almost always happy to help. I love helping people out, it's most of the reason I play the game. This is honestly very insulting.

Im doing no such thing, I am trying to offer a suggestion as to why you cant get in a team based on what you said in your post. You said

"I see a lot of lowbies begging for help with the ravagers daily, and personally while I usually love helping people out, I tend to ignore them because it's such an awful mission purely because of the traffic issues."

which is basically admitting that you don't help people out in there which only adds to the situation and makes it worse. Imagine this, you ignore them and take the kills they need... what kind of player are you showing that you are to them and in what adverse ways is that going to affect their oppinion of you, in turn affecting the way they regard you whilst playing, in turn affecting your chances of getting in a team with them? You are a cause of the problem you are facing but yet you want to change the game because of it. Yes I get that somepeople will never play nice regardless of how much niceness people shower them with, somepeople will always be selfish no matter how much selflessness they are blessed with. This doesn't mean that most people are 100% selfish and wouldn't help people out, not helping people out in this situation yourself does nothing to remedy the situation. It isnt more mobs or faster spawns that we need, its more a greater understanding that we arnt the centre of the universe and how much harm would it really do to take along someone who hasnt lvled enough or gained enough experience with the game to be able to build a character that can do it without help.

This is the very problem I want to be addressed. There isn't enough space to cater for it more often than not, because the slow spawns make people reluctant to go there, and they bunch up when they do, so the teams will already often either leave full or merge multiple times very quickly, and then you have multiple 6-man teams camping the same few ravagers. This all has to do with the spawns, none of it is the faults of the players.

The servers feel (to me anyway) like they are dead. The game has been much more popular and the mantis den has seen much higher influx of people through its doors in one go than at present. It feels like your making this bigger than it really is just to try and prove your point. If people teamed up, you wouldn't need the spawns to be quicker cos you could get in on the old spawns before they are taken down. Obviously this does nothing if you zone in and the team is already halfway through the dungeon leaving nothing but a trail of corpses but that is the same in every other non instanced dungeon in AO. Yes I admit sometimes there are multiple 6 man teams but this isnt that often and its normally just 2 when it is, very rare do you get 3 whole 6 man teams. At certain times of the day the dungeon is more busy than others. If the busyness is a damaging factor for you, alter your routine, do dailies in different order or slightly later/earlier if you can.

I think you're projecting on these people. I seriously doubt most of them want to snipe, steamroll, steal or whatever. Most of them are in the exact same spot as you, they just want to get the damn quest over with because things keep getting in their way. Most people will get frustrated in this situation and many will start acting rashly and lashing out, stealing spawns and whatnot. It's not their fault, they've been pushed to the edge by the game mechanics and the way you have to tiptoe on eggshells to not interrupt someone else's quest in the hive.

lol Im not at all. Im just trying to explain that I have suffered too, I just dont think it is reason to ruin the daily for my alts. I would agree with you for some, they dont want to hinder people, they just wanna do their thang. I dont have a problem with them. I was just giving you examples of me being in your shoes. I dont cry into my pillow on a daily basis. I do think there are some who do get off on it though but I dont have a problem with these either. People are people and what you experience from one person one day could be a totally different experience the next due to moods and what have you. Regardless of whether they mean to or not, get off on it or not, it IS entirely their own fault. Of course it is. You could say a guy that robs a bank didnt rob it cos he wanted to. He was pushed to the brink by the mechanics of society that didnt make room for the fact that he couldnt make his way on his own but do you think it would wash? Dont get me wrong, I havent thrown everybody Ive seen an invite, im as susceptible as anybody to moods and grudges and im not trying to make out im perfect because im not. Im just speaking plainly as I see it. I see the errors of my ways as much as I see the errors of others and combined with different experiences and quiet reflection I can hold my hands up to my own selfishness and greed when I spot it so im not trying to make out "its everybody else". I know what I say here applies to me as well and most days I do make an effort to try and be nice or help out but I dont tend to suffer fools either and have been known to make an enemy or two but its all good. The problem isnt people being willing to help out because everybody is at somepoint, for someone. I think its more a case of people needing to be willing to help out when really they'd rather not because it is at these times we dont generally see what we do as having adverse effects on the enviroment we play in.

This is a fine suggestion. Similarly, they could do with it what they did with Pandemonium, leave the un-instanced version of the playfield intact and introduce a new, instanced version. This would allow anyone being carried by 220s or anyone who just wants some alone time to have their own private playground, and people who want to team up and see others roaming around can join the public playfield. Things might get a little quieter, but they'll be more lively than if it were all instances and at the same time almost all of the conflicts will either be solved or easily solvable.

The only issue I can see with a pande-like treatment would be the queen being easier to farm, but I doubt we're worried about that. The mantis egg has always been the easiest component of the VTE to farm even when she was a rare sight, and her swords are almost always left to rot.

Thanks I love the Ipandish idea. I cant see how anybody would have an opposition to this (prove me wrong lol) as vte's are pretty standard practise nowadays with people not only using them for twinking but having them on lvling toons. People sometimes camp the queen which stops people getting the complete daily so people who farm for bracer or what ever can do it without hindering others. Awesome Idea.

This is honestly very insulting.

Apologies, I dont mean to offend or insult you. Havent really read this beast back yet so apologies for any offence this might cause too. I dont mean to be as harsh as I am sometimes and its hardly ever my intention to hurt or what ever but I have always known to get a lil excited at times. I do try to curb it but years of being a sarcastic, oppinionated fool is hard to suppress.

Peace.

[Litestrider]

You've lept on one phrase where I mentioned ignoring random invites/requests to do the daily, and drew the conclusion that that meant I round up the whole dungeon and clear it just to laugh at people, or something along those lines. Even after I corrected you and told you that I'm always as courteous as I can be in that and other dungeons. My only offense is not going out of my way to help people when I'm already doing something else. That's a very common activity of mine, but I don't think refraining from it occasionally is reason to vilify me or assume that I'm some killstealing jerkwad. Yes, it's still insulting, but I do think it all stems from a misunderstanding rather than any intended malice on your part.

I'm glad we agree on the ipande/partial instance idea though. They could even use the Borealis Entrance as an entrance to the instanced version, with an alternate entrance in that "lobby" for the public dungeon. The entrance on the world map could just be the public version, I don't think leaving it as-is would hurt anything. The more I think about this specific implementation the more I'd really like to see it in-game!

[McKnuckleSamwich]

TL;DR

Agree about respawn times.

[Baby]

I agree on respawn times and I agree also on the quantity of mobs. I can understand that some people worry about getting troubles on lower toons soloing the daily, but let's be honest here: That doesn't happen too often. However, I'd like to add to that suggestion to lower the HP of those mobs as well. First of all because it's the main reason why I personally haven't done this daily without a 220 in.. forever. And secondly it might tone down the worries of not being able to do this daily normally, with lower respawn and higher amounts of mobs.

The only real problem I see with the Ravager daily at least, is that there is plain not enough room for more mobs at the moment. Unless they get piled up, so some nice rework of the place would be required I suppose. And welcomed on my side.