Multi weilding...

[Zwelgje]

In general A few Professions had more affinity with dual then others but that is long gone since the Weird QL vs Requirement stepping from 99 to 100 and 199 to 200 with AI weapons. That should be fixed. So should the SE AI weapons. About 1k in MM, MR would be fair, first upgrade Xan Pistol and 1HB at least 1250 MM/ MR. It's not that high and doable for any paid toon. But it will hurt more, you will need to consider it, or will need you to twink better instead of simple slapping on 2 weapons. Minimum fair price for "almost" endgame stuff. At endgame

I've seen a lot of combinations that will still be possible after this, and some be harder or not possible any more. And I still not see this as bad for the game. It will need people to rethink there set-up, there combination and other new challenges. If real problems arise at the lower TL level's there could be some tweaking, as nothing is static. But imho for the Endgame range the higher req for MM or MR should the check.

For instance, Advy could be getting a Jobe pistol upgrade for suitable PvM at endgame, with the MR req of 2k. Possible and hard enough on the IP. Therefore I happily trade in something else...

As a solution for all the set-ups that are now around. Sure they can stay, there still a few Doc's with that Agent only rifle around. But one thing that might change a mind is simply to put an OE check on MR/ MM as well. It will simple be OE at X given % and for both weapons, same as any other weapon req..

[Raggy]

To be honest this kinda sum's up the problem.

@ Raggy; It used to be kinda part of a tool-set, a feature, something people had to make a lot of effort to be able to. It costs IP therefore is wasn't always favourable. It isn't any more and Ophiuchus said it already that all but his Solper is wielding dual...

This suggestion would for instance mean that my Advy PvM setup would require a lot more MR because of the commonly used main Twitch pistols. It would raise the req. over the FA pistol at such low req.

Yes, this was back during a time where ACs actually had some meaning and things like the EQB were considered the holy grail of weaponry.

And as already said earlier in the thread, the IP expenditure for dual-wielding is already stupidly high for the vast majority of weapons. And by swapping the MR/MM reqs around you're going to do nothing but severely limit the levelling capability of a good amount of profs for the sole reason of giving Advies a little boost in the 'uniqueness' dept.

Which is pretty damn silly and selfish.

[Lazy]

well this is awkward. there's nothing in adv toolset that needs improving so they're asking for everyone else to get nerfed instead. i'm confused. it's not like advies don't sit on boatloads of spare ip. hell i knew an adv that did troaler->hatred swap with pistol + 1he perks carried by MR. if you have the IP for that you should have the ip to max mm without any issue... hell what did you ip that you can't find enough ip to self your weapons? map navi swimming and vehicle ground?

[Zwelgje]

Yes, this was back during a time where ACs actually had some meaning and things like the EQB were considered the holy grail of weaponry.

And as already said earlier in the thread, the IP expenditure for dual-wielding is already stupidly high for the vast majority of weapons. And by swapping the MR/MM reqs around you're going to do nothing but severely limit the levelling capability of a good amount of profs for the sole reason of giving Advies a little boost in the 'uniqueness' dept.

Which is pretty damn silly and selfish.

It's not just the uniqueness for Advies. To be fair I think Fixers, Shades and perhaps MP's should be added to the list of primarily dual wields as well. Supported with buffs if they haven't already.

Levelling perse doesn't have anything to do with dual wielding or not. At some point people will adjust to the fact that some combination might not be possible anymore (or very hard) or come to the understanding that at that given time that setup as the best at that point. That mind set will change as well over time. Also I'm opposing primarily the endgame range atm but surely the SE AI is part of it as well. The lazy use low QL RK offhanders next to End game weapons, the first Upgrade of 1Hb next to the Xan 1HE all at minimal cost. The very lazy even use SE for endgame..

sorry lazy at the quote, and leave the lvling out. (so say Tl 7 range..).
"And by swapping the MR/MM reqs around you're going to do nothing but severely limit (the levelling capability of) a good amount of profs"

Which combinations which proffs, might face a terrible impact?
For those combinations would it be that bad?
Name 3

It's not selfish at all, it's weird to think the game is Dual wielders Online. It's not a rule (it might not even be a right for some) to use dual weapons. Nor should it be possible for all to equip the best within in that combination.
I could also have made a thread that Pet and Nuke damage should be halfed if xyz prof has 2 weapons equipped.

We are spoiled to have it all and yes I've played Crat with Troa'Lar (3 specials) and nuke (not to forget pets).. Or a Dual pistol NT and still have a dual pistol MP or dual Enf, And Dual Soldier (quite funny that one). Dual Pistol Doc, Engie and Second Crat. Hell at some point my lowbee Enf used Dual CDR's and so did a low lvl keeper at some point ...

[Zwelgje]

well this is awkward. there's nothing in adv toolset that needs improving so they're asking for everyone else to get nerfed instead. i'm confused. it's not like advies don't sit on boatloads of spare ip. hell i knew an adv that did troaler->hatred swap with pistol + 1he perks carried by MR. if you have the IP for that you should have the ip to max mm without any issue... hell what did you ip that you can't find enough ip to self your weapons? map navi swimming and vehicle ground?

Had a Dual spec setup my self and was top fun. However part of the fun was I had to make very hard choices and for any opponent is was a guessing game which skills it were and to what extend. That's what AO should be like and not just maxing everything till the max. Same could be said about Enforcers.. Oh wait there I didn't had to make any choice.... Same as my trader, 2h Shotty (with or without AS) and able to TS all. I guess I have a different IP distribution on most of my toons...

Nor should every profession demand to be able to use dual weapons because that's the best DD or what ever. Be able to use dual weapons, sure, but at a high(er) cost. However the dual wield choice has been made very easy over the years and now we can't do without.

[DarkerThanBlack]

@ Dark; fact that you consider it the only viable route, is entirely your opinion. But it is, kinda sad that PvP has to rely on a QL 188 froob weapon in the first place (Not discussing AS and PvP here in general). No I don't think this is wrong because you choose to equip a low QL next to a Endgame weapon. The higher weapon should therefore set the requirements...

See now I can't tell if you're trolling or actually that oblivious. Again it's not my opinion, it's a fact. It's not a choice because the only alternative would be having less dps than a doctor. Not that I expect someone who's a "professional" of the overall most overpowered pvp profession for the past 10+ years who still thinks they need buffing (or nerfing of everyone else) to understand.

It's not just the uniqueness for Advies. To be fair I think Fixers, Shades and perhaps MP's should be added to the list of primarily dual wields as well. Supported with buffs if they haven't already.

Shades and fixers have had multiwield buffs for a very long time. Your lack of game knowledge is disgraceful and to think you still stand by your idea that advies need to be even more special despite the obvious lack of knowledge and as if being the fc lovechild for 10 years wasn't enough, it's just sickening.

Not one person has backed you so far, I suggest you go back to the adventurer forum and contemplate ridiculous advy buffing ideas there where someone equally delusional might actually agree with you.

[Ophiuchus]

Improve the 2h weapons, not remove the ability for anyone with a grain of sense to use a second one hand weapon that's not totally worthless, all furthering the Advy hate. 18.7 is already going to kick us in the groin and stuff like this isn't helping the profession's cause.

[Krustyleet87]

As a solution for all the set-ups that are now around. Sure they can stay, there still a few Doc's with that Agent only rifle around. But one thing that might change a mind is simply to put an OE check on MR/ MM as well. It will simple be OE at X given % and for both weapons, same as any other weapon req..

So - you're saying that after X day - you'll have to use the higher MM/MR reqs when dual wielding. You think that just going to magically fix over 10 years of toons made with an older set of requirements?

All that is going to do is give twinks made with the older requirements so much stronger it won't even be fair.... adv or not :P

For example I have a 60 enfo with a 105/101 chirop on. I needed 770 MM to equip both of them, while the 105 has 1k MM. If this change was made tomorrow - no 60 enfo would ever be able to get near the weapon setup I was able to achieve on mine. Also - a 60 Melee adv wouldn't be able to do the same either - so this would hurt adventuers also even with their MM/MR buffs as you'll never be able to get near that with the changes you've suggested. All this would do is give any twink made before these proposed changes such a leg up on offense/weapons it almost wouldn't even be worth making twinks anymore... lol

[Fluxxxx]

Somebody close this post already, it's pure nonsense.

If there is anything i would do to the adventurers, is to nerf them even more. They've been FC's lovechilds for more than 10 years. This sh*t's gotta end.

Thank god i'm not the GD, cause I'd actually remove this obscene profession and introduce a melee prof that's actually USEFUL in the game.

[Fluxxxx]

And just in case some under-aged,nature-loving,mentally-challenged,AS-and-IOTP-spammer-in-pvp tries to comment on what i said, here's a good argument:

NT - AOE Nukes.
MA - Crits and pure DD.
Doc - Healz ftw
ENF - Tank tank tank
Shade - Pure DD
Soldier - Reflects
MP - Nano support
Keeper - Team support - auras
Crat - Crowd control and DD
Agent - Can act like any other prof, so not totally useless like an Adventurer
Engi - DD
Fixer - GSF/NCU/HOT
Trader - Umbral & shiz.

Advy - *insert something actually relevant and useful here* - if you say heals or DD, i will punch you.

Kthxbye.

[Rockdizzle]

Advy - DD, tanking, Healing, CC kthxbye jk jk

everyone knows Advy dd is nothing special and CC with leet is the most saddest thing I've seen (30sec/10cooldown ftw) not to mention you can't tank using lizard if your main healer "doc" can steal agg from you with just a hp setup and doc pistols.

[Cratertina]

2h weapons should just get universal 50% Damage boost.

That would fix inherent add damage.advantages in multiwielding. Maybe then someone would consider singlewielding.

[Lazy]

2h weapons should just get universal 50% Damage boost.That would fix inherent add damage.advantages in multiwielding. Maybe then someone would consider singlewielding.

25% to offset the ip savings of not having to ip multi

[Zwelgje]

25% to offset the ip savings of not having to ip multi

There are only a couple of setups that need an increase of MM or MR.. For any combination with one SE AI weapon, Xan Lust/ 1HB, or Onehander hardly any or no IP is needed. This is what offsets the balance in using Dual over any most 2handed weapon. Not even 50% increase of the 2 handed weapon will fix this.. SE editions have proffession locks, and only Xan Pistol and 1HB have a 1.2k req which is laughable easy. All the hate that it's been posted by an Advy (or by me in this current roll. )

Might I then suggest all profession locks to be removed from SE editions, drop the MR from the doc pistols and make lol easy for Xan SMG, MA, and Piercing to have the same Req like the Pistol and 1HB (1.2kish MM or MR). Yeah this would fix iz for sure.... MM/MR for all...Whohaaa

@Krustyleet87
105 and 101 chirop might then not be possible anymore, the OE rule might effect this, you might keep it out of OE, you'll maintain the current setup. However this won' t change the option of 101 chirop's dual as this req the same effort as the 101/105 setup. Imho still way to OP for the lvl range it is used for, so hardly an impact at all.

[Raggy]

Its got nothing to do with you being Advy professional and everything to do with it being a terrible idea.