18.7.0.24 TL, New Rihwen nano reqs.

[gresh]

Yes, I would have to agree to a similar experience. I must admit I havent tried all too hard though. For along time hearing it being PVP turned me off but I've heard things recently that give the impression that it isnt all out pvp in the traditional sense (cant remember what it was I heard but was just left with the vague impression). It all certainly sounds complicated though, especially in regards to the tradeskilling process but it will be both an experience and a means to an end.

[nanoforcer]

There seems to be some weirdness with the mezzpet, casted the best one that now is level 210 (woohoo, can cast 8h cm on it finally) and buffed it with cm + construct empowerment, took the grid to newland to try and mezz some low level mobs and it seemed like it was either having a hard time landing mezz on them or that it took about 1 min untill something finally happened, when it finally landed after 4-5 tries judging from the mezz gfx it kept on landing on said mob.

[lainbr]

Yep, I need Gauntlet too - I've never been there myself. Not the easiest thing to find teams for in my experience.

I usually do it with orgmates.

[gresh]

Just read the thread again and I dont know how I missed the setups posted by Lainbr. There they are, clear as day.

[lainbr]

Minor note: While doing stress damage on T3 Rihwen I noticed that it does indeed mininum damage on high AC monsters, but I though otherwise due it's 3 weapon template. Aka, it does 3 diferent min damage as well. :c

Gonna post full results in a few hours

---

Justinsane just pointed me this thread where you can calculate average AR of pets!

Did it with all 3 pets, against Tuff Leet, with 0 buffs and with Evocation of The Enraged.

Raw data:

T3 Pet:
Kaiju hit Tuff Leet for 5448 points of poison damage. Critical hit!
Kaiju hit Tuff Leet for 6318 points of poison damage. Critical hit!
Kaiju hit Tuff Leet for 7189 points of poison damage. Critical hit!

Kaiju hit Tuff Leet for 6481 points of poison damage. Critical hit!
Kaiju hit Tuff Leet for 7473 points of poison damage. Critical hit!
Kaiju hit Tuff Leet for 8465 points of poison damage. Critical hit!
T2 Pet:
Kaiju hit Tuff Leet for 5082 points of poison damage. Critical hit!
Kaiju hit Tuff Leet for 5902 points of poison damage. Critical hit!
Kaiju hit Tuff Leet for 6713 points of poison damage. Critical hit!

Kaiju hit Tuff Leet for 6108 points of poison damage. Critical hit!
Kaiju hit Tuff Leet for 7049 points of poison damage. Critical hit!
Kaiju hit Tuff Leet for 7981 points of poison damage. Critical hit!
T1 Pet:
Kaiju hit Tuff Leet for 3937 points of melee damage. Critical hit!

Kaiju hit Tuff Leet for 4835 points of melee damage. Critical hit!

Data table:

Evoc req lvl         -       201
T3 weapon 1 crits    5448    6481
T3 weapon 2 crits    6318    7473
T3 weapon 3 crits    7189    8465 
T2 weapon 1 crits    5082    6108
T2 weapon 2 crits    5902    7049
T2 weapon 3 crits    6713    7981 
T1 weapon 1 crits    3937    4835 
Edmg                 0       275
Eoff                 0       500

The calculations for T3 Pet:

6481 - 5448 = D * (500/400) + 275
1033 = 1.25D + 275
D = 606.4

6481 = 606.4 * (1 + (AR+500)/400) + 275
6206 = 606.4 + 1.516AR + 758
AR = 3193,67
7473 - 6318 = D * (500/400) + 275
1155 = 1.25D + 275
D = 704

7473 = 704 * (1 + (AR+500)/400) + 275
7192 = 704 + 1,76 AR + 880
AR = 3186,36
8465 - 7189 = D * (500/400) + 275
1276 = 1.25D + 275
D = 800.8

8465 = 800.8 * (1 + (AR+500)/400) + 275
8190 = 800.8 + 2.002AR + 1001
AR = 3190,91

The calculations for T2 Pet:

6108 - 5082 = D * (500/400) + 275
1026 = 1.25D + 275
D = 600.8

6108 = 600.8 * (1 + (AR+500)/400) + 275
5833 = 600.8 + 1.502 AR + 751
AR = 2983.49
7049 - 5902 = D * (500/400) + 275
1147 = 1.25D + 275
D = 697.6

7049 = 697.6 * (1 + (AR+500)/400) + 275
6774 = 697.6 + 1,744 AR + 872
AR = 2984,17
7981 - 6713 = D * (500/400) + 275
1268 = 1.25D + 275
D = 794.4

7981 = 794.4 * (1 + (AR+500)/400) + 275
7706 = 794.4 + 1.986 AR + 993
AR = 2980.16

The calculations for T1 Pet:

4835 - 3937 = D * (500/400) + 275
898 = 1.25D + 275
D = 498.4

4835 = 498.4 * (1 + (AR+500)/400) + 275
4560 = 498.4 + 1.246 AR + 623
AR = 2759.71

---

And here goes the stress damage test I did with all 3 pets.
Test toke average 60minutes for each pet. Full buffed but staff buff and Ken Fi.

T3 Pet:
Place. Player (Damage/Damage per Minute/Hits/Crits/Crit%/highest hit)
1. Kaiju ( 8.725.053 / 145.260 / 2923 / 232 / 7% / 5.365 )

T2 Pet:
Place. Player (Damage/Damage per Minute/Hits/Crits/Crit%/highest hit)
1. Kaiju ( 8.356.245 / 139.260 / 2924 / 209 / 7% / 5.110 )

T1 Pet:
Place. Player (Damage/Damage per Minute/Hits/Crits/Crit%/highest hit)
1. Kaiju ( 6.595.085 / 109.860 / 2926 / 207 / 7% / 2.989 )

---

TL;DR:

T1 pet has average 2760 AR umbuffed. T2 pet has average 2983 AR umbuffed. T3 pet has average 3190 AR umbuffed.
T1 pet has average 110k DPM. T2 pet has average 139k DPM. T3 pet has average 145k DPM.

[Raggy]

I said the 3k pet had about 75k HP! Where's my reward?

[Esssch]

Well. Now I feel better. Those results make it so that T3 pet isn't worth the effort for me. Heck, I'm sure I'm giving up similar by just using regular Lusts instead of Peh'wers.

[lainbr]

I said the 3k pet had about 75k HP! Where's my reward?

/me throws cookie

Congratulations! You won a chance to duel with Lainbr!!!

[JustinSane4]

Fantastic research Lainbr! Thank you.

A bit more interesting info:

Fully buffed 3k Req Rihwen (including weapon enhancement and aggressive construct empowerment) against the high AC punching bag:

Player (Damage/Damage per Minute/Hits/Crits/Crit%/highest hit)
You ( 4.172.243 / 150.660 / 1364 / 121 / 8% / 5.483 )

So the 3k Rihwen gains about 5k DPM from Aggressive construct empowerment against high AC mobs.

Now the fully buffed 2.5k req Rihwen:

Player (Damage/Damage per Minute/Hits/Crits/Crit%/highest hit)
You ( 2.748.968 / 148.020 / 913 / 70 / 7% / 5.420 )

The 2.5k req Rihwen gains about 9k DPM from aggressive construct empowerment. This fits with Lainbr's AR calculations. The 3k pet has significantly higher base AR - 207 higher, or about 6.7% higher, to be precise. But it doesn't do 6.7% more damage. It does 4.3% more damage. Apparently, the top Rihwen starts with worse base weapons than the 2.5k Rihwen, but out damages it unbuffed because of higher AR. But if you buff both pets' AR, the 2.5k pet's damage increases faster. Theoretically, if Aggressive Construct Empowerment were a 600 AAO buff rather than a 300 AAO buff, the 2.5k pet out outdamage the 3k pet. On the other hand, the higher base AR of the 3k pet should come in quite handy for PvP purposes. Fully buffed, it would have an AR of 4,140, which is pretty darn good.

But for PvM, it's almost certainly not worth stretching for the 3k req pet - at least for creation weapon using MPs who have access to the 300 AO buff Aggressive Construct Empowerment.

[Esssch]

That brings dual Asp setups possibly above pistols as far as DPM goes. The poison proc and increased pet DPM should make up for the loss of fling/burst. And it looks like the setups and calcs Justin and I were talking about the other night wouldn't be necessary, could probably just keep ambi perked or swap out some CS for CM while keeping HUDs nano-focused. Interesting. I'll not buy those IPRs just yet, though, and wait on some more info. Justin are you going to check the viability of 2.5k pet and dual Asp without massive amounts of swapping for the MM? I'm thinking swap BBQ Pillow and keep a piece or two of CM on should be almost enough to make it work.

[JustinSane4]

That brings dual Asp setups possibly above pistols as far as DPM goes. The poison proc and increased pet DPM should make up for the loss of fling/burst. And it looks like the setups and calcs Justin and I were talking about the other night wouldn't be necessary, could probably just keep ambi perked or swap out some CS for CM while keeping HUDs nano-focused. Interesting. I'll not buy those IPRs just yet, though, and wait on some more info. Justin are you going to check the viability of 2.5k pet and dual Asp without massive amounts of swapping for the MM? I'm thinking swap BBQ Pillow and keep a piece or two of CM on should be almost enough to make it work.

I have been running some calcs on this. First, an attempt with no AI3 perked (if you're 1hb, AI3 is a significant sacrifice since you'd generally want CoLI, CoNC and Ancient Knowledge fully perked). With a custom left wrist imp and several swaps, http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=200002 can get 1,201 MM. That's not the best possible setup, but excepting the robe and custom imp, it's stuff I've already got - and this is a selfishly motivated calc . I can then switch to http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=200005 for exactly 2,545 MC to cast T2 Rihwen, then swap out the nanoskill hud3 hud2 and util 2 for either offensive or defensive items, depending on circumstances, probably going with nano-targeting unit in Hud 1, switching the deck to Hud2, and Offense Research Augmentation device in Hud3. The rest of the setup should actually work pretty well with dual Asp.

Advantages: For me, I've already got nearly all of the gear. More broadly, it doesn't compromise your perks so you can keep all 7 lines a 1hb MP will want maxed (CR, SS, Blunt Mastery, Starfall, Ancient Knowledge, ColI, CoNC). The end setup isn't perfect DD or anything, but should be decent. Doesn't require any AI armor - though you could substitute CM or CC sleeves and just leave them equipped, which would also reduce the swaps needed slightly (wouldn't need to change the rings and right shoulder to get enough MM if you had ql 300 Strong armor sleeves permanently equipped).

Drawbacks: Not looking forward to spending 500m+ on a custom wrist imp. Twenty-five swaps start to finish. End result is a decent generalist setup, but you could do better for DD.

Alternative two: Full CM or CC, all seven slots. Get a DB Assistance Module, leave it in Util 3. With a custom left wrist Imp, you won't even need to max MM to hit 1,200 without swaps. You can get 2,545 MC/TS by swapping HUD/Util stuff around.

Advantages: The extra fast attack and brawl skill from armor mean you can go Asp/Abandonment, which is significantly better DD than Asp/Asp thanks to specials and higher weapon damage in the off hand. Fewer swaps needed - just need to change 4 Hud/Util slots out and then back. Potentially the best possible MP DD.

Disadvantages: On the whole, low nano skills. A purely DD approach - there is no good way to swap to a decent dual SoZ setup and back again (though you could go Asp or Abandonment and one SoZ in the off hand). Requires DB3 Util 3. Which I should get, but am not particularly excited about paying for the LR to. Tough on IP - 1hb, MM, Brawl and Fast attack are all dark blue skills. Would probably need to re-set nano-pool, maybe SI or duck explosives.

Alternative Three: Keep AI2 and Unknown Factor 7 perked, switching between AI3 and Unknown Factor 8 as needed. Have a set of CM or Strong armor (sleeves of senseless violence, dynamic sleeve of Aries and Desert Raider/Lya gloves are alternatives for a couple slots) and a set of CS. Swap to CM to get the needed MM, swap back to CS to summon Rihwen, pick what you like to use from there.

Advantages: Flexibility. The option of a high nanoskill setup, allowing you to re-summon the 2.5k Rihwen in combat if needed. If you've got access to full endgame gear, you can swap to a setup allowing 3k Rihwen with a wrangle. Can easily switch to a dual SoZ setup, especially if you forgo CoLI in favor of Ancient Knowledge.

Disadvantages: Expensive. Kind a pain to switch between Unknown Factor 8 and AI3. Perks are a bit of a dilemma, as Ancient Knowledge/CoNC is clearly better for dual SoZ, but CoNC/CoLI is better for DD.

Alternative 3 is the one I'm aiming for, but the farming it will take gives me pause. I might just go Asp/Shield of Esa instead of Asp/Abandonment, at least until I can scrape together a couple billion credits for five more pieces of CM and a custom left wrist Imp.

[Wakizaka]

Drawbacks: Not looking forward to spending 500m+ on a custom wrist imp.

You can blitz all 3 clusters @ ql250, and farm yourself a ql286~290 l-wrist imp (or buy it), then add the clusters in Shiny, Bright, Faded order to bump and still maintain using ql250 clusters. That should cost you 10~20M if you're buying the implant.

[nanoforcer]

So i was talking to Michi on test last night and he told me he's updated AR for ALL pets comparet to live, that means for engies and crats as well.
Lain, you seem to be good with figures, care to test the top pets of crat/engi to see how they fare?

[-Klod-]

Seriously, people... Is it only me who think these numbers are insane?

If anything, T3 pet should have T2 reqs to cast, in worse scenario that is.

[nanoforcer]

T3 seems to tank better, but not do much more damage than T2, but yeah reqs are sky high.
Oh and Michi also lowered to reqs to cast engi pets.....

[Esssch]

Seriously, people... Is it only me who think these numbers are insane?

If anything, T3 pet should have T2 reqs to cast, in worse scenario that is.

I felt the same, but I knew if I said anything about it, engis would come in and be like "wah wah wah now you have to swap like we do" like they always do, and I simply didn't feel like point out, yet again, that they purposefully give up basic nanoskill adding parts of their equip. Then I saw that T3 was possible to cast, so it's not like we have the same case as NTs with GIVA. I'd still prefer the reqs are lowered, though.

[-Klod-]

I felt the same, but I knew if I said anything about it, engis would come in and be like "wah wah wah now you have to swap like we do" like they always do, and I simply didn't feel like point out, yet again, that they purposefully give up basic nanoskill adding parts of their equip. Then I saw that T3 was possible to cast, so it's not like we have the same case as NTs with GIVA. I'd still prefer the reqs are lowered, though.

Well, it seems they got their pet reqs lowered.

Chicken: Time&Space from 1891 and Matter Crea from 1896

Zombie puppy: Time&Space from 1958 and Matter Crea from 1960

[lainbr]

Seriously, people... Is it only me who think these numbers are insane?

If anything, T3 pet should have T2 reqs to cast, in worse scenario that is.

Numbers are as insane as what T3 pet can do right now. But I agree it's reqs should be a bit lower, something like 2945 T2 ones is already too scary for its reqs.

[nanoforcer]

I just soloed Razor with both t2 and t3, didn\t really feel like these was a big diff between them.

[JustinSane4]

At first I was against lowering the reqs on the T3 Rihwen. But given that it is only modestly (3-5%) better than T2, and that engie and crat pets have been upgraded as well, 2,945/2,940 seems quite reasonable to me. That's down to a level where dedicated nanoskill setups would be able to cast it in a fight. That would go some way toward justifying the steep skill requirement. Currently, if it dies, it stays dead until the fight ends and you're down to T2. You can't swap to Phulaks against anything capable of killing T3.