Are shotguns in 18.7 going to be viable, or just a gimmick?

[Rockdizzle]

It was on High AC punching bag like all my tests are on and was with FP Adv for 7 minutes per test. Reason for 7 mins is because Toxic Shock is 7 minute cooldown and 5 minute uptime so I test for 7 minutes.

I can do a test or 2 on Low AC punching bag if you want tho it doesn't benefit from Low ACs as much as kick pistols.

*Mantis Queen
(parsed from 1 minutes, 19 seconds.) near perfect parse, only a couple secs off
1: 588,713 : Slysniper : 74.5% | 447,123 | 47-21-147

[Rockdizzle]

Hit the Punching Bug (high AC) 1 more time with 200 demon since it has more AR and also hits as fast as meatballs now plus 12man buff on agent.

(parsed from 7 minutes, 11 seconds.)
1: 3,241,241 : Slysniper : 74.0% | 451,216 | 273-119-823
2: _,_88,785 : Slysniper2 : 8.6% | 12,359 | 93-0-0

It's free DD that can be used in any FP now but damn does it suck without any AAO buffs, Punching Bug only runs about 1.5k ish def/evades but the demon struggled.

[Cratertina]

That is stellar, it firmly puts agent on topish damage post. And since its ranged, it should be best damage overall.

How is survivability? Good with good enfo?

But if all is good, this is exactlly the kind of damage agent needed for a long time.

[Rockdizzle]

Survivability?: It's meh but not horrible with Adv heals, the low hp is what hurts the most. Not stuck to FP adv tho but you lose the Sabre morph/aura.
Good with a good Enfo?: Show me an Enfo that can hold agg off 450k+ pure DPM, most Enfos struggle at 400k ish with IMalice spamming, casting detaunts can work tho its a pain to do tbh.

No Agents needed this kind of DD really, it's nice don't get me wrong but only 1 other prof can break 400k on Punching Bug which is shade and it BARELY does that within acouple thousand DPM which is margin of error basically while using a suicide setup.
My setup I was using is still missing about 130ish add dmg which is about another 13-15k DPM extra.

Remember this is a "Pistol" Agent, you are pretty much giving up on PVP if you try and setup for shotgun or pistol properly due to IP problems and will lack on bulkyness/evades if you go for it but if you're fine with the downsides than welcome to the
"Pfft you invited a Sold as DD, please my Agent does double its dmg on a weekday" club.

[Litestrider]

I've seen a crat, engineer and NT all break 400k on the punching bag in 18.7 (and the crat crushed it). I wouldn't be surprised at all if MP hit that point too with the new buffs. 400k strikes me as super good but not outlandish these days, and having some survivability at the same time is very nice since those three toons were (I believe) all in 100% dps suicide setups.

Personally I think it's a great thing that we can actually see potential PvM Agent setups. For a very long time there was pretty much just nothing between the lackluster perks and losing them when swapping away from rifle anyway. Giving up PvP to do it doesn't really faze me, because many professions exist in this state, if they want to PvP then they give up on their PvM effectiveness, and vice versa. Maybe it's not a state the game should exist in overall, but Agent has always been a special kind of broken, and moving it toward the standard level of messed-up instead is a step forward!

Edit: figured it might also be worth mentioning that enforcer taunt got a little buff with 18.7 with mongo's local cooldown. Spamming iMalice gives 10k taunt per second, while alternating mongo and iMalice gives you about 10,700 per second and is also much more practical since you have the mongo heal up and will also be taunting everything around you. It will probably be a little easier for enforcers to hold hate off of those 400k+ dpm shades and the other damage-setup profs.

[Kuegen]

Curious, what would you guys think of MA? FFoK last 4 hours now, so FP engi for Slayerdroid transference, then trader for draining means 880 MA just from nanos alone. You wouldn't get as much attacks as pehwers, but you would have much better crits.

[Litestrider]

The main problem I have with the MA setup is that it's just too far detached from what agent is good at. You can get good damage out of it with all the skill you can muster, but you've got to use a lot of unusual gear, a bunch of weird implants, and even with the extended FFoK duration you're still locked to a specific FP cycle with little to no option to operate outside it. It just makes agent really inflexible and from what I remember it absolutely trashes your evades, nanoskills and defenses (none of which are in a good position to start with). Given you're so tied to FP: Trader in that setup I would personally rather just go MA trader.

That's just my opinion though, someone who's really into the concept could probably deal with the downsides, focus on the positives and get some decent performance out of it. Also when I tested it I used tonfas, a less demanding weapon may be less restrictive when you aren't facing content that demands high AR.

[Rockdizzle]

I can tell you with 100% certainty that MA loses to both pistol and Shotgun but I'll make the comparison and even do a DD test or 2 after since I already have a MA agent on test and it's a good fight on paper.
Total MA from buffs is 998 also. 160+400+420+12+6

MA is the best melee crit option so I'll compare it to the best Crit ranged option Shotgun. I would need to redo my Agent setup again so I will just use my old DPM test and assume a increase of 15-20k dmg from sabre aura.
Both setups assume capped weapon AR.

MA-http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=200347 the Bob is actually a xira blade, not the best setup ofc but neither were my pistol or shotgun setups.
45 regular hits per min
8.5 fast attacks Same as Tonfas
4 brawls

2 procs (unable to use proc perk)
21% 12 hits per min
15% 8.6 hits per min

5 perks
3 being 65 seconds
2 being 2 minutes

dmg-
Tonfa Regs 2551-3430, crit 5135-6015
X1-R4 Force Blade 2458-3311, crit 5301-6154
Fists 2251-5865, crit 5597-9211
Brawl 1392-3870 Crit 3860-6338 , low AR enough to miss on Punching bug without using CC and other AAO gear hurting survival.

The max DPM (100% crit) of weapon dmg alone is 394k give or take 1k on 0 AC mobs, perks and procs bring it up to 435k DPM average and agent dot nano being 12k DPM. Grim Reaper is luck based but getting 1 per min average is not out of the question.
Using Punching Bug results in a 90k+ DPM drop putting it out of 400k DPM range for the most part
2 weapons are recommended in all situations.

Shotgun- Old Punching Bug test done before 18.7 hit live so changes like Sabre aura being added and proc changes not yet done are not accounted for so less dmg than it would do now.
"1: 2,938,070 : Slysniper : 85.4% | 416,747 | 254-113-597 7 minutes 3 seconds perfect heh"
Accounting for Sabre aura and proc changes I see 430k+ DPM no problem seeing as how my pistol setup could do it.

MA- 8 min ish test, started test with concentration, used it 3 more times and ended it when concentration was up again.
1: 2,935,375 : Sneakperhaps : 91.0% | 352,245 | 357-87-603 Not bad considering my setup.

Both setups do great DPMs but the MA setup is clearly a APF only option while still being inferior anyways not to mention shotgun/pistol setups favor team add dmg buffs/perks much more than MA due to more hits per min when including procs/perks.


*unrelated* I wanna see a NT, Crat or Engi hit 400k+ on Punching Bug since I call bull, before DM nerf http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=193238 was the best NT DD setup around and it couldn't break 400k on punching bug sitting at just 380k DPM give or take 1-2k from margin of error.
NTs got back some dmg with improved Gereks,+10% nanodmg and cyberdeck hits but Punching Bug forces min hits which is almost half of nuke dmg so if a NT still hits 400k+ DPM on it I'll be simply impressed, same if Engi or Crat hit 400k. Crat hitting 400k+ would impress me the most tbh given the nerfs and boosts in dmg canceling each other out with a setup like http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=193363 not hitting more than 340k DPM

[Kuegen]

Thanks for the detailed post In a way I'm glad that MA isn't the strongest DD option.

[Rockdizzle]

NP, I'm sure under the right circumstances a MA setup could MAYBE out DD Shotgun or Pistol setups but that assumes both a trader in team for umbral+3 AC drains on every mob+more crit in setup+low AC mobs like aliens and both setups not using FP NT for high DPM on groups of mobs. Even than I have doubts since those 4 things benefit other setups just as much in the end.


So ya if anyone is deciding on making a high DD agent I would highly recommend Pistol, Shotgun doesn't have enough support atm and the loss of using morphs with other FPs only hurt it more not to mention you need to use FP Trader if you went all out DD gear due to shotgun skill problems.
Pistol is in my opinion the most flexible setup of the 2 since due to 160 more IP and 2 pistol buffs at 100 and 120 you can use any FP and full on DD gear and still keep a respectable 2.6k ish AR while Shotgun will be at 2.3k without FP trader. Swapping from pistols to rifle is about the same effort as shotgun as both need FPs to do it.
Unless it cant be helped I would stick to using FP Adv mainly for the big add dmg boost and heals.

[Cratertina]

here is a half serius comment. My agent broke 700k dpm with fp NT, pulling smugglers, den mantises with volcanic erruption.

Suck on that, should work on most APFs, and anywhere you can kite. All the add damage gear and buffs really help a lot. Potentially I can see agent now being a better AoE nuker than NT.

[Zwelgje]

here is a half serius comment. My agent broke 700k dpm with fp NT, pulling smugglers, den mantises with volcanic erruption.

Suck on that, should work on most APFs, and anywhere you can kite. All the add damage gear and buffs really help a lot. Potentially I can see agent now being a better AoE nuker than NT.

When a toon is lvl 158 (as my agent is 220.. ) I'm kiting the research with my agent :P Add damage works wonders.

[Litestrider]

here is a half serius comment. My agent broke 700k dpm with fp NT, pulling smugglers, den mantises with volcanic erruption.

Suck on that, should work on most APFs, and anywhere you can kite. All the add damage gear and buffs really help a lot. Potentially I can see agent now being a better AoE nuker than NT.

FP:NT in the APFs has always been a great time! I'll do it any time I don't doubt the tank's ability to grab and hold all the aliens.

It works similar to the candycane NTs, while real NTs get better nukes and better support, the sheer amount of +dmg helps agent keep up when it comes to AoEs.

Also it's really fun to watch the damage-obsessed people either balk when you're WAY ahead of them on the damage dump, or go mysteriously quiet and stop obsessively posting it because they're no longer 1st