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Thread: 18.7 official patch notes

  1. #21
    Doctors have been given a DOT removal nano.
    Doctor Scheol Jobe/Yutto quest rewards should now be an A and a B Dot instead.
    Nanite Instinctive Control is now a DOT line A called Sophisticated Viral Agent.
    Doctor Complete Healing has been given a line cooldown of 30 seconds and now heals the target for 100% health. This nano program will no longer pull aggro in the Shadowlands. This nano program is now in the same line as Improved Complete Healing.

    Aside from those, we have been given everything that was asked for since the last time I've brought it up. While I liked the original 20s lock out compared to the current 30 I cant see it getting changed sadly, even 25 would be nice. The increased healing of our regular heals should counter the timer though. The biggest concern will be losing NR and nano inti. The new dots are meh and arnt worth what they replaced, the redone NIC is crap and the nano DoT remover is questionable at best but it can have its uses in pvp.

    "Removed total immunities from certain Trader, Doctor, Meta-Physicist, etc. buffs from all monsters; they still have some resistances to them, in addition to Nano Resist, however." Is the best part though imo.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    well I was talking about PVP.

    in PVm who cares as you rightly said.

    In PVP the only prof who might come close to being able to get 10k HP is enf (my 85 enf had 8.4k with OSB I think)

    I really don't see the issue on this, and I think it's short sighted not to look for the value instead of just assuming it's not as good since it's "different".

    The reality is, a 2.5k heal on a 4s CD will be a MASSIVE boost for docs keeping more than one toon alive in PVP.

    The obvious is always true and always applicable: defence, a timely heal, and tanking the zerg for 5-10s more than the opposing side can tank your zerg always equates to an advantage for the side that can keep the zergs target alive longer.

    That means you can do 2 2.5k heals and a team heal for 3k heals on 2 called targets instead of 1 CH which is way overkill because GOOD targets in PVP almost exclusively don't have high HP. Who do you call first? Enforcer or crat? soldier or engi? keeper or trader?

    My 110 MP has just under 1600 HP and trust me, I'd rather get 2x 2.5k heals spaced 4s apart than 1 10.5k heal and my buddy dies 5 seconds later because doc couldn't get a heal off.

    the problem with CH, and this has always been the case, is that you have to endure colossal overheal from Tl3 thru to late TL5. It's a rare day when CH is used to capacity imo - I mean, lets think about it for a moment.

    My 85 enf is twinked with 141 CM and is maxed out, and even then with OSB and mongo, he's only got 8.4k HP - in this case, it serves the doctor far more to be popping lower heals because quite frankly, a good enf at Tl3 should be able to handle a crap tonne of aggro via absorbs in PVM, and in PVP, anyone who targets that toon before a doctor isn't considered a threat anyway I'd say.

    Lets move to mid TL4: a 126 enf with full maxed gear with 203 set of CM, SOW/axe or SOW/CC will likely have about 11.5-12.5k HP here, if the enf is twinked to hell CH might start seeing full usage with no wasteage, but honestly, you're far better off popping a few small heals to keep UP the hp than let the enf go so low. The reason is because people generally start popping unnecessary defences when HP drops that low. In PVM a stray crit can knock em out, in PVP a lucky AS can finish them - and a high multiplier AS can roast an enf right thru a coon defence in a worst case scenario.

    At TL5 most levelling toons are lucky to get 6-7k HP doing ado hecks or whatever, you're far better off to be maintaining HP than waiting for your tank to be 1 hit away from reclaim. But in PVP, again, it's a different story, in TL5 HP ranges are a bit different, here we start seeing some more serious HP, my 170 keeper has nearly 16k HP with OSB's and with a swap or two in and perks in crusade. Enfs probably can get 17k. soldiers probably are between 10k and 13.5k depending on setup, but then there's the lower/mid HP range, a proper setup trader/crat/fixer/MP might only have 5k-7 with OSB, engi might try for more, MA maybe 7-8k dep on setup and whether or not he's goin for a low HP setup, agent, not sure but prob can get around 11-13k with a max HP/doc setup/enf setup.

    So at TL5 here we gunna see some different style of healing becoming more important I guess. doc goin to have to be proactive healers as opposed to reactive healers. There will probably be more emphasis on team HoT's and maintaining health than big CH's in the nick of time.

    But this isn't a bad thing. It just means we're going to be forced into playing more defensively. Higher defence = reduce damage taken, but it makes sense with most changes aside from the stupid advy evades adjustment.
    McKnuckleSamwich,
    You talked a lot but none are related to my concern. I know you pretty good in math. Please help to calculate the healing efficiency of 170 doc versus agent. On top of that, do help to calculate the damage output for both.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Vinkera View Post
    That's a pretty disrespectful and ignorant comment. We've only been testing 18.7 for about 8 months, what do we know?
    Vinkera,
    I didn't flame anyone nor I intend too? I already mentioned this is my personal feeling how's 18.7 was about. Do we not allow to says anything about personal opinion?

  4. #24
    Doctor healing efficiency will be 106%

    Doctor will have few if any problems continuously healing over a long period of time

    Agent healing efficiency will be 100%

    Agent will have few if any problems continuously healing over a long period of time

    Agent will likely have higher evades, higher AR, lower HP, 11s AS, possibly fling, 5-6 perk actions, 4 of which will do reasonably good damage

    Doctor will likely have moderate evades, lower weapon AR, higher HP, 13-14s AS if using unionist arbalest, higher NR, higher NI

    Agent will likely produce 60-80k dpm via specials, perks, procs

    doc will easily will dot load:

    https://tl.aoitems.com/item/263281/ Dot A: 5250k dmg/30s
    https://tl.aoitems.com/item/263282/ Dot B: 5625 dmg /30s
    https://tl.aoitems.com/item/223263/ Dot C: 5640 dmg /30s

    33k/min

    Doc will probably have mistreatment, feast and chaotic assumption for some OK perk damage however, if doc uses melee setup this wouldn't apply, also, if doc used pistols which is a possibility then you'd also have quickshot+doubleshot as well.

    A raw DPS setup doc with mostly CC, Dchest and purple hud three, burst/pistol/fling RW, Burst Rarm, using LH of grace and an SE pistol could probably churn out 75k DPM I think.

    So basically I'd say agent and doc are pretty similar, if agent decided to dot load, he could do it for a while but I think he'd run out of nano a lot faster, and agent first aid and stim QL is a lot lower than doc's.

    I think broadly speaking agent is going to OD doctor, but doctor has a few things working for him which agent doesn't have: heal perks, more nano init, more heal eff, more nano resist.

    you'r question is vague though, and I'm not sure why or how you want to compare them.. like, in PVP if agent and doc go toe to toe, it'll be different. If you want to do a DPS race, it's different again. If you want to assess raw PVP utility, it's different again.

    Basically I think what you're trying to say is that agents can do what a doc can do, but have loads more offence. And to that I agree, and I think the way to adjust doc's is to do the same thing michi did at TL7: remove dot cast caps and lower the cast time.

  5. #25
    McKnuckleSamwich,
    Thanks for input. I should have specify the question in more details. and I discuss pvp related only.

    Single healing boost
    - In 18.7, basically agent healing capability got boosted the same amount doctor have. Which made me feel that doctor ain't get the most benefit from this change.
    - if LGE is not useable by FP. My kudos to doctor professional.

    Duel or Mass PvP.
    When TL4/5 doctor get ubt'ed + stun + -nanoinit perk running on them. They will solely depends on CH to heal up. Even 2.5k heal on a 4s CD won't save him from the alpha by few professional.
    - Pre 18.7, CH recharge is 8s. TL5 doctor only need to work around that 8 seconds recharge to survive.
    - In 18.7, CH lock down is 15s. Now TL5 doctor need to extend their survivability for 15s now.

    If any of you still don't understand, see below classic example.. WooooT tanking 10 people in battlestation.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niF_vFy3duA

    Basically doctor need CH to survive when more than 2 opponents engaged to him. After 18.7, any TL4/5 doctor will not be able to survive 15 seconds after first CH'ed.

    In short, LGE boost is nice for PvM aspect but definitely not to TL4/5 PvP doctor.
    Last edited by Transform; Apr 21st, 2015 at 08:19:22.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Transform View Post
    McKnuckleSamwich,
    Thanks for input. I should have specify the question in more details. and I discuss pvp related only.

    Single healing boost
    - In 18.7, basically agent healing capability got boosted the same amount doctor have. Which made me feel that doctor ain't get the most benefit from this change.
    - if LGE is not useable by FP. My kudos to doctor professional.

    Duel or Mass PvP.
    When TL4/5 doctor get ubt'ed + stun + -nanoinit perk running on them. They will solely depends on CH to heal up. Even 2.5k heal on a 4s CD won't save him from the alpha by few professional.
    - Pre 18.7, CH recharge is 8s. TL5 doctor only need to work around that 8 seconds recharge to survive.
    - In 18.7, CH lock down is 15s. Now TL5 doctor need to extend their survivability for 15s now.

    If any of you still don't understand, see below classic example.. WooooT tanking 10 people in battlestation.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niF_vFy3duA

    Basically doctor need CH to survive when more than 2 opponents engaged to him. After 18.7, any TL4/5 doctor will not be able to survive 15 seconds after first CH'ed.

    In short, LGE boost is nice for PvM aspect but definitely not to TL4/5 PvP doctor.
    You need to look at cast times.


    Cast time for old LGE is 3.19s with 4.56s rec
    Cast time for LGE is 3.19s with 2s rec but 4s CD

    Cast time for old CH is 5.5s
    Cast time for new CH is 1.00s

    What that means is that if you're nano init debuffed you're still going to be able to heal pretty well. Like, you can cast LGE pretty fast as doc under UBT alr so thats the same cast time as what you'd get in 18.7, except you gunna get 2x more HP out of each cast.

    See, the problem is that you've never used LGE, so you don't know how good it is and you don't see the value of a 2k heal.

    and thats why I made the arguments I said earlier: don't knock it till you tried it.

    The only improvement I think is needed is that team RK heals for docs are trash. The way MA's are setup is much better with a short cd and longer local CD so you can swap between team/single heals to boost overall healing. I put that in the 18.7 improvements thread.

  7. #27
    That's why I also mentioned in my earlier post. I will not comment till 18.7 hit live and test it.

  8. #28
    So my team meep seems to have buggered off... anyone know if we can get a new one. Or were left with just single? Can't seem to find anything regarding it.

    -Ery

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