The case for including Shadowlands in fr00b accounts.

[Bootez]

Since AO is moving is a very positive direction with the release of 18.7, I figured I would state my case about why I believe Shadowlands should be included in Fr00b accounts.

So far, there has been a great burst of incoming players due to the patch. Some veterans, some newcomers. This is a trend we want to continue right?

Here is the issue that I see:

-With all of the leveling paid players in Shadowlands, it can seem a bit lonely for a fr00b. Likewise, with all the fr00bs in Rubi-ka, finding a group in AO can be very difficult. We have a segregated community. Segregation isn't ideal, considering players will likely sub and stay subbed based on the communities they are apart of.
-Shadowlands is "old content" at this point.
-Without the expansions, the players are still missing out on TONS of content, which they will more likely want to try if they are involved in serious game progression (Shadowlands).
-It may solve the heckler issue. With an influx of players in Shadowlands, players will likely resort to separate types of leveling techniques. This would help keep subs from players like me who quit simply because of the level issues in SL.

The issues that I see with making SL free:

-You might say that SL is problematic for an incoming player. This, I agree with. But there are obvious solutions. You could make monsters drop credits in Shadowlands. Same as RK. But even if you didn't do anything, the community in AO is fantastic, and I know it would work itself out. We just need to be able to run into each other. The problem is segregation of the player base. This would solve that.


I vote for an equal AO. One where fr00b and paid can play together. One where segregation is a thing of the past.

Edit: I just want to add, giving a little to your fr00b players will most likely, based on companies in the past, will generate more revenue in the long run.

[Ophiuchus]

There's been a couple of threads on this topic fairly recently. Well, recently in AO forum time

I'd like to see it too but with 18.7 introducing new SL restrictions onto things that didn't have them before (advy team auras, improved doc buffs, improvied fixer buffs etc) , I'm pretty certain that the direction things are going in is pretty much the complete opposite.

Also, SL mobs don't need to drop credits. They really don't!

[Teeko]

It would be great if they would do this, and on top of that get another ad partner to get ads showing for froobs again, that would get FC some extra revenue from AO again. I haven't seen any ads in years

[Player1]

This makes perfect sense right now. AI perks and LE research would still create a gap between account types but allow froobs to get a real taste of how paid players actually play the game.

Even if they limited their SL progression (e.g. froobs can't access pande or inferno) it would still give a better picture of how AO plays these days while boosting everyone's ability to find teams and level. Win-win-win.

[hokutonoken]

Give paying player life time sub with 40 pbp while you at giving free expansion too

[Cratertina]

To be honest... this doesnt make perfect senes anymore. I was always pro SL-froob... but not anymore.

Grace pretty much enables one to play Free with all expansions, provided you farm 500ish mil these days.

So lets say you wanna be free to play with all expansions, pop 15€ and you can go free from there. (its essential to stop potential explotations)

Also with expanse of multiboxing, SL accounts when multiboxed would hold considerable power. Infinite agents with Perennium sniper for example come to mind. Would SLfroobs be popular if you see them alloverthe place running multiboxed and owning yo azz?

I think no.

Segregation however is bad... so one thing I'd be up for is... open up areas, let froobs go everywhere up to ipande. Give em free movement, just unable to use rewards. Let froobs farm whatever, do whatever, go wherever. But keep rewards for expansion players.

Player who says completes ado quest on froob would thus be incentivezed to go paid, especialy after getting some nice random gear from say APF's, SL, and good stack of VP.

[Dollcet]

I mostly agree to what Cratertina say however if you wanna bait them give them one Perk every 25 Levels ( 8 at 200 ) , so they get hungry for more Perks .

[Ophiuchus]

I completely disagree with the watered down proposal above. The last thing we need to do is create a 'half froob' type of account. For a start that's a lot of extra work and it's another unecessary account type split.

One of my accounts that I regularly play is an SL only account. I can tell you right now that once you get past TL5 it is HUGELY underpowered comapred to a full expac account. MASSIVELY. I'm really not kidding at the difference, and I put a lot of work and effort into my Sloobs (just ask my orgs and friends ) I am already playing with an account that is a Froob account but that has the SL flag set and costs like $5 a month. (That's how a Sloob account is treated btw: you don't get Vet Points, you're not classed as a subscriber for Item Shop perks or freebies or discounts, free months never applied to you etc.)

The current difference between froobs and full expacs at, say, 200 is night and day. The two are a literal different game so I can see why dedicated 200 froobs wouldn't care for the full expac thing becasue it would much like goign to play a different MMO entirely. But a Sloob already sits halfway. So close and yet so far. If anything, getting SL is more likely to encourage Sloobs to go full expac.

[Litestrider]

I definitely agree. While there are a lot of nice items in the Shadowlands, most of the actual raw power really comes from AI, LE and Xan. On the other hand, RK feels incredibly devoid of content, and the SL are so huge and varied a bunch of people still haven't seen all the sights. In addition it would give access to basic perks which makes a lot of the professions feel less "empty".

I think this would be an excellent way to increase the content froobs have access too and make the transition less jarring, without increasing their power too much.

Specifically, there are a lot of really nice things that they won't get. Research, AI Perks, city access, Kyr'Ozch weapons, AI armor, Communications Relays, S10 access/items, S7 weapons, the AI belt and TNH belt upgrades, any of the new NCUs (they'll wind up using a lot of Pande ones like 200 twinks), xan weapons/betas, DB armor/bracers. I don't know if they'd have db quest access but I rather doubt it. I could go on, but I think that gives a pretty good picture. A 220 sloob might be able to compete with a level 200 S7 twink, they wouldn't so much as hold a candle to endgame characters though.

[Frokidd]

Totally disagree with OP. The froob program wasn't even supposed to run as long as it has. A good portion of it is paid players buff and bank toons is probably only reason it still exists. No other expansion stand alone adds as much power. LOX no good unless 201+ for xan hub, LE research and ofab no biggie at 200, and even AI perks, weapons, and armor at 200 I would still choose SL 220 as better.

[Ophiuchus]

I definitely agree. While there are a lot of nice items in the Shadowlands, most of the actual raw power really comes from AI, LE and Xan. On the other hand, RK feels incredibly devoid of content, and the SL are so huge and varied a bunch of people still haven't seen all the sights. In addition it would give access to basic perks which makes a lot of the professions feel less "empty".

I think this would be an excellent way to increase the content froobs have access too and make the transition less jarring, without increasing their power too much.

Specifically, there are a lot of really nice things that they won't get. Research, AI Perks, city access, Kyr'Ozch weapons, AI armor, Communications Relays, S10 access/items, S7 weapons, the AI belt and TNH belt upgrades, any of the new NCUs (they'll wind up using a lot of Pande ones like 200 twinks), xan weapons/betas, DB armor/bracers. I don't know if they'd have db quest access but I rather doubt it. I could go on, but I think that gives a pretty good picture. A 220 sloob might be able to compete with a level 200 S7 twink, they wouldn't so much as hold a candle to endgame characters though.

Funnily enough they can do DB Quest and even wear the most basic nanodeck Can't get the nanoskills to cast the nanos without hugging an MP and a trader and fully gearing/perking for it mind you. Even then it'll depend on their prof. Intel symbs are not happening. The lack of AI perks and LE research is HUGE for twinking. The only gear a Sloob might share with a full expac characters is Yuttos/Pande NCUs and Biodome armour. Well unless you're comparing it to a lazy and poorly geared endgame character. Weapons are a right pain too without the options of Xan, LE, Alien weaponry. Anyway, playing a TL7 sloob int he game right now as is, is an interesting experience I can tell you

[Lenaro]

Cratertina hit the nail on the head here. Until someone suggests an exploit-free method of introducing this system it cannot be allowed in the game. Multi-boxing is already a substantial issue and effectively allows you to solo the game, however - mutliboxing has it's value. Those who do it now will typically be required to pay Funcom more money to keep the servers running for the privilege. Open up SL's areas to froobs, sure, but even a Sloob account holds too much power to allow it into the system unpaid.

Multiple people have mentioned that this would be an incentive and I fail to see how. Adding additional content and power to froob accounts doesn't seem to be an incentive to me - especially when it's widely regarded that SL is the best expansion (Even if it doesn't contain the most power). On the other hand, adding new content for froobs by allowing them access to SL, but keeping the character development options from them seems like a great incentive. Here's this awesome new area that you cannot explore to the fullest without paying. If froobs had the option to access SL areas they definitely have the potential to earn the requisite credits to buy GRACE and transition to a paid account without paying real money.

My suggestion would be as follows...
1. New Sloobs can access all areas of SL.
2. Sloobs get access to the first 3 perks. This offers some insight into the power and flavor perks add to the game - which also gives some insight into AI perks.
3. Sloobs can wear SL gear under QL100. This could be shifted a few QL levels higher. Ql100 however would allow for use of Perenniums, NT Deck, Predator, early Symbiants, T1, Crepescule, low ql Arul Sabas, and a ton of other miscellaneous gear of different importance.
4. Sloobs are allowed to complete Specialization 1. This gives an idea of what unique nanos are available to each Profession.

[Litestrider]

Lenaro, the main reason it would be an incentive is because the expansions would be less of a black box. I can remember my time as a froob well, there was almost no information about the shadowlands available to me. I had absolutely no clue what they looked like and what went on in there. All I really got to see was people running into a whom-pah and disappearing for hours on end, and awesome gear that they'd come back with. It took me forever to finally decide to buy the expansions because I had never had any contact with them.

AI, LE and LoX however are much less segregated. You can encounter aliens and their gear quite a bit on RK, LE is largely RK-based with froob access, and LoX is a direct extension and conclusion of SL and AI content. A good thing to note here: Froobs can participate in AI and LE to some degree. They can participate in city raids and battlestations, go to the Dreadloch camps, even tag along with someone who's running many of the AI dailies which take place on RK. They still buy this content, in fact I would not be surprised if AI and LE weren't more of an incentive to upgrade than SL is, because there's a lot of direct contact and you get to witness the kind of stuff the expansions hold, so you have a decent idea of what you're buying. I also wouldn't be surprised if this was one of the reasons the sloob program was cancelled, since I've known very few people who went sloob and didn't very quickly buy the rest of the expansions.

Your suggestion seems needlessly convoluted and labor-intensive to me. There would be a great deal of development time involved in adding all of those restrictions and making sure they work well, for little to no gain in the end. I can see a case being made for accessing SL without the ability to use any SL items, but that would also require a lot of dev time, since there are a great number of nodrop SL items which aren't expansion-restricted.

I believe Ophiuchus is right, it seems like you and some of the others are massively overestimating the amount of power SL items bring. Most twinks really don't wear much if anything from the shadowlands if they can help it. It's all about the AI, LE and LoX items. I was actually quite shocked to see as many SL items as there are on many 200 twinks when those started getting popular. It will represent a leap in power over froobs, sure, but it still won't be anywhere near the same league as a full paid character.

[Literary]

I expect AO will go F2P completely or, more likely, B2P like TSW.

[juggaloklown]

Totally disagree with OP. The froob program wasn't even supposed to run as long as it has. A good portion of it is paid players buff and bank toons is probably only reason it still exists. No other expansion stand alone adds as much power. LOX no good unless 201+ for xan hub, LE research and ofab no biggie at 200, and even AI perks, weapons, and armor at 200 I would still choose SL 220 as better.

Haha, that is the funniest thing I've read in awhile...are you serious? AI brought a lot of power and with LE OFAb+Research it's a major difference between just SL and all expansions.

When I play on my SL account, I don't feel much stronger then a froob. Those AI/LE armor and weapons are great and you miss not havign the AI persk and LE procs and bonus stats. The AI/LE perks and gear really make a big difference.

And you say "LE research and ofab no biggie at 200" ? lol ok.

[Bootez]

I expect AO will go F2P completely or, more likely, B2P like TSW.

I really hope you're right. It would be in a great spot to do so once it went live on Steam...

[Frokidd]

Haha, that is the funniest thing I've read in awhile...are you serious?

And you say "LE research and ofab no biggie at 200" ? lol ok.

Tell you what, you take your LE ONLY at 200 vs SLOOB at 220 and then rethink your entire post. Then ask yourself if YOU are serious?

Because if you think a lvl 200 toon with research and ofab beats a 220 with perks and symbs then something is wrong with your thought process.

Or did you totally space out on the part of my post where I said...

"No other expansion stand alone adds as much power"

[Litestrider]

"No other expansion stand alone adds as much power"

Why would you ever make this comparison, when the expansions are designed in such a way that they build off one another and depend on the last expansions?

[Frokidd]

Maybe because the OP is suggesting to open up SL and not the other expansions for froobs. My point is accurate that SL is the single most powerful expansion. Opening it up for free makes absolutely no business sense. Why would a company give away its most important product for free and still expect to be profitable?

[Bootez]

Maybe because the OP is suggesting to open up SL and not the other expansions for froobs. My point is accurate that SL is the single most powerful expansion. Opening it up for free makes absolutely no business sense. Why would a company give away its most important product for free and still expect to be profitable?

Because in the long run, you're going to keep more players. People will sub once they experience Shadowlands. People will sub once they meet other people and create a community. MMOs strive off community. I'd HAPPILY sub to a game where I'm constantly working with other players. AO currently has too many barriers between other players.

Giving Shadowlands to froobs is not going to remove subscriptions. In fact, it will most likely add to subscriptions and also cash shop sales. Imagine all the fr00bs buying garden keys? It's an income gain no matter what way you look at it.


Edit: typo