Dual wielding with cyberdecks is now official

[Rockdizzle]

Izgimmer Speed-modified Cyberdeck

Ammo type: Self supplied
Damage: 200-300(450)
Dps: 100.0-150.0(225.0)
Speed:
Attack 1.50s
Recharge 1.50s
Equip delay: 8.00s
Initiative: Nano Execution Init
Location: RightHand
Range: 30m
Dual wield: Multi Ranged 1000
Max beneficial skill: 2500
Attack skills: Matter Crea 100%
Defence skills: Nano Resist 100%
Modifier:
On User:
Modify Matt.Metam 100
Modify Bio Metamor 100
Modify Psycho Modi 100
Modify Matter Crea 100
Modify Time&Space 100
Modify Sensory Impr 100
Direct Nano Damage Efficiency 3%
Modify NanoC. Init. 150
Modify Aimed Shot -2000


All cyberdecks have -2000 Aimed Shot and 200,400,750 and 1000 MR reqs

thoughts?

[Vinkera]

I see that.

Hopefully that's just a quick fix for now. Dual wielding with them was never intentional, and it's a step in the wrong direction if it's left that way.

At least Aimed Shot received the massive nerf I asked for. If, at least, ranged init, fling shot, full auto, and burst receive the same nerf, I would be ok with that. It would effectively allow a buff weapon to be used, but at the same time punish the user for using a weapon with the second attack bar being awfully slow.

[DigitalBath]

That's.. a weird one. Not sure what the idea is (to remove the Multi or to keep it so we use a buffing weapon of some sort), but I hope the former.
In case it's the latter, we have limited MC-buffing options (The MC phulak is on the same hand as the Cyberdeck) so it wouldn't be worth it that much, anyway.

If the idea is for us to use Lust / Peh'wer or something of the sort.. as much as I miss weapons on my NT (what? Caterwaul + Resonance Blast was fun and not OP at all!), I think it shouldn't be possible.

Alternative setups to Cyberdeck using weapons and nanos would be nice tho since AO's all about finding niche setups and doing well with them. But all in due time, we just barely got endgame NT dps back.

[SolanMesdane]

So... uh... my NT is now an MP, but with bigger nukes and no pets. Lol.

I've been able to tolerate my cyberdeck dealing damage, but this is just ridiculous.

Going to bench my NT unless they decide to revert these changes. Hell, I'd be even happier if they just removed cyberdeck damage altogether.

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but I prefer my mages solely focusing on shooting fireballs, not a mix of that and whacking with a staff, too.

I respect most of what was changed in the big update, but like Vinkera said, I feel that this is most-definitely a step in the wrong direction... :'(

[Raggy]

1k MR makes putting on a Lust ridiculously simple.

It essentially cements NTs as THE ranged dual-wielding prof.

[Ophiuchus]

Seems a bit weird to me. I did initially think that perhaps it was a temporary fix that didn't just destroy cyberdecks until a more permanent solution could be implemented (unlike a certain other 'fix' *cough*DM*cough*). But the varying MR reqs with the varying QLs seems to indicate otherwise..?

[Vinkera]

After this was discovered, I asked Michi about it and he said it was not intentional and there were complications preventing it from being single wield only. He said he added the multi ranged stuff, and I'm guessing didn't expect even NT's to be so opposed to it.

That said, I told him I wanted one of two things... Make the Cyberdeck debuff all weapon skills by 2k when equipt or revert it back to a nonfunctional weapon. I think this is him lobbing a quick fix out to see what the reaction is following my first suggestion.

I've stated before, but I am very opposed to NT's being weapon users in combination with the Cyberdeck. That throws wrenches into our balance, and it is just not a direction we should be going, in my opinion.

When you look at it, NT's are scientists, not soldiers. We should be using nifty gizmos and Nano Technology to kill stuff, not guns.

[Cdogg421]

i only see this as setting Nt's up for more of a nerf then they need. as it stands i'm hitting 28k nukes on AI generals while program overload is up and i'm only at 2659 MC and still using most of the gear that I was at 165. doing inf hards, apf, pande, etc. i'm usually #1 dd and if not either 2nd or 3rd. dps is fine as it is.

[Ophiuchus]

Well my personal take on it is from the balance perspective. Sounds like a horrendous headache to keep it from straying into either ridiculously OP or ludicrously underpowered territory if dual wielding cyberdecks with ranged weapons is to be a thing. I'm not actually opposed to the concept though. After all, froob NTs often use pistols too It's just odd after the original deck design was clearly to specialise into nukes at the cost of weapons, much as I do like the deck autoattack now.

[SolanMesdane]

After this was discovered, I asked Michi about it and he said it was not intentional and there were complications preventing it from being single wield only. He said he added the multi ranged stuff, and I'm guessing didn't expect even NT's to be so opposed to it.

That said, I told him I wanted one of two things... Make the Cyberdeck debuff all weapon skills by 2k when equipt or revert it back to a nonfunctional weapon. I think this is him lobbing a quick fix out to see what the reaction is following my first suggestion.

I've stated before, but I am very opposed to NT's being weapon users in combination with the Cyberdeck. That throws wrenches into our balance, and it is just not a direction we should be going, in my opinion.

When you look at it, NT's are scientists, not soldiers. We should be using nifty gizmos and Nano Technology to kill stuff, not guns.

Non-functional... non-functional!

[Cdogg421]

while i feel like this shouldn't be a thing, if you're gonna do it, do it right. should it be deemed that we are now deck/pistol, then open up the pistol mastery line to us. add burst, fling, multi range, and ranged init to our symbs. change the color of those weapon skills and evades to light blue or green. and that should bring us in line with proper pistol builds.

but still in the same opinion as vinkera, make it cyberdeck only

[Cratertina]

This is single best nt change in .... forever! Gonna put lust back on the moment i come home.

[Cratertina]

1. Nuketina ( 494.317 / 305.760 / 45 / 8 / 17% / 24.921 )

YEEAUS! Its on now, by no means optimised yet, but feels .... feels like someone gave me a suprise gift!

[Mastablasta]

Man.... I really want a DKP dualwield now... But there's no way I'm ever going to get 2250 shotgun :'(

[JustinSane4]

This seems rather awesome to me, and quite well balanced actually. The elegant thing from a design perspective is that it's pretty much useless in PvP since NT ranged weapon AR won't be enough to hit anyone and AS won't work. On the other hand, it will add to NT PvM damage. NT has always been a problem to balance because they should be a high DD profession in PvM, but due to CB they lose less DPM switching from PvM to PvP than any other profession. This is a way to keep NTs at the top of damage dumpers without making you guys PvP demigods.

[Cratertina]

My pistol NT now has 3100 AR.. and could have more with more MC. MC governs your attackrating,...

It feels sexy straddling nanodeck in right hand and lust of xan in offhand. So pwnzor, Nuke, then burst fling, Just feels runchy.

Not exactly super useful in pvp. and AS nerf is pretty called for, last thing NT's need is AS + doubles. 900 burst does not hit much in pvp. By much i mean ever... but fling does hit.

[Vinkera]

The AR of pistol, or rather.. lack of, in a proper NT build is exactly why I'm against it.

Why should we settle for something like a Lust, when we could possibly have another gadget of some kind. Even if it doesn't do damage directly, but has some other nifty trick. It would be nice to have something like that, that's actually MC dependent, to help out how poorly our perks land, also.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of much support for both pistol and MC combined. Keep in mind, it's still not even practical to use the 3000 MC damage range on GIVA, so IP'ing your way into a Lust may be worth it at the moment, but that's it. However, just having the ability to use a Lust may be considered "good enough", despite the obvious lack of support, and the chances of getting a legit alternative are then lessened.

To me, using a pistol is settling for less. It's pretty counter productive unless you just buff your way into it. Sacrificing nanoskill gear or + % Nano damage gear wouldn't be worth it, in my opinion.

[Twangleman]

This change to how NTs might be built has completely revised my ideas about what a new alt is gonna be!

[DigitalBath]

I wouldn't go around changing things too quickly until a proper official statement has been made. For all we know this might just be a quick fix and then all the time, IP resets and whatever else spent getting the Lust / whatever else on is wasted after a few weeks.

Hell, the title of this thread is highly misleading in it's own right. We really need proper clarification about this from Michizure before any similar statement can be made.

[Vinkera]

Agreed.

He told me directly that this was a mistake to begin with.

A bit off track, but, I speculated back before 18.7 was live about a left hand weapon for NT's to compliment the Cyberdeck. I thought of it being less of a damage weapon, but something mainly to set a damage type override. Possibly having a small damage range wouldn't be a bad alteration to that idea, or maybe a proc of some kind.

I hadn't put any thought into it again until yesterday, but I'd much rather have a nifty gadget like that over a Lust.