220 endgame dd setup

[Uaintseenme]

I currently have a Dshark engie and as i mentioned before, it depends what you are messuring your DD against, the shark certainly wins out across inf mish's and trash mobs in raids, they got low def and die fast so the FA and burst is where your dmg is comming from, however, it kinda sucks against anything with a pulse.
Where you dont cap those lovely 15k FA's anymore and in some cases your FA fails completely.

It fun to out tank soldiers in your research grinding inf mish's, but thats about it, in terms of a DD set up it falls short to most of the other alternatives.
It's also a pain in the ars to keep it from OE if you dont have a full auto contract from your orgs towers.

[Teeko]

One of the best config. but not the only way. Max. PvM DD would be IDBEP+PDKP+Perk Pistol/Shotgun Mastery lines.

Wasn't it just addressed that an AMEP would beat out and IDBEP in pretty much any situation? :/
I don't see any point where the IDBEP would be superior to AMEP, except in a situation where you are hitting only mins, no crits whatsoever, and in that case your losing damage anyways because you should be in a pretty heavy crit setup with AMEP+PDKP if your looking for a max dmg setup.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

can engi keep PDKP out of OE without a Right arm shotgun implant?

[lufa1982]

I mean, it all depends on what kind of DD you're interested in. For farming DD parser top list on raids and chain hitting inf missions, nothing beats the Shark. For low defense, fast droping mobs, you need big specials. If you want to OD people while farming Inf dynas (assuming that's still a thing), you obviously need pistols and what not.

[Transform]

Wasn't it just addressed that an AMEP would beat out and IDBEP in pretty much any situation? :/
I don't see any point where the IDBEP would be superior to AMEP, except in a situation where you are hitting only mins, no crits whatsoever, and in that case your losing damage anyways because you should be in a pretty heavy crit setup with AMEP+PDKP if your looking for a max dmg setup.

Fact 1. AMEP = Right hand only
Fact 2. Shotgun perk requires shotgun to be equipped on right hand(I know it's weird requirement but this is what I found ingame).

If you want to be able to fires off Pistol/Shotgun mastery perks, what will you do? Go figure...

[Transform]

can engi keep PDKP out of OE without a Right arm shotgun implant?

Short answer = Yes. But do consider you might not be able to equip it without +shotgun right-arm implant.

[Alceona]

I see many old ideas on how to do more dd

1) D-shark. This weapon has low AR, so it is possible to miss FA and burst often enough. Pistol setup is better than d-shark, because it has additional perk damage, good stable bursts and AR higher than MBS.

2) MA engi. Short distance, low crit mod, low AR.

I think the highest damage we can get with IDBEP in the right hand and PDKP in the left hand. This combination gives the highest Critical hits, the hiest possible burst for engi (from IDBEP) and full set of pistol-shotgun perks. (AMEP has lower damage than IDBEP).

[McKnuckleSamwich]

burst cycle on IDBEP is pretty long. I assume if an engi is using PDKP offhand you'd need shotty Rarm, that's 144 less burst and that might mean a non-capped burst recharge, as weird as that sounds; even in full CC/CSS.

1625 burst to cap it.

[Transform]

Not sure if any of you reads this...

- Shotgun perk requires shotgun weapon to be equipped on right hand.

To someone have connection with dev. please help to verify with them if this is bug or intended.

[Wakizaka]

Not sure if any of you reads this...

- Shotgun perk requires shotgun weapon to be equipped on right hand.

To someone have connection with dev. please help to verify with them if this is bug or intended.

Looking at the database entries it's only Point Blank that requires your R-Hand weapon to be a Shotgun. Leg Shot & Easy Shot only require a Shotgun to be equipped somewhere.
By contrast, Blunt Mastery & Edged Mastery perks list the requirement of having your R-Hand weapon being of the type of the perk line where the action originates from.
Pistol Mastery on the other hand has no such restrictions, and all perks just require a Pistol being wielded.

Of course you'd want a Pistol in the R-Hand and Shotgun in the L-Hand so that your other perks benefit from the better Pistol AR when checking.

[Alceona]

Difference between PDKP and IDBEP bursts is high, so you can sacrifice 1 dd perk that you can use every 90 sec. Another bad surprise about PDKP is small clip, so 1-2 bullet burst happens often enough and you have to wait until it's reloaded instead of pressing special attack buttons.

[Transform]

Looking at the database entries it's only Point Blank that requires your R-Hand weapon to be a Shotgun. Leg Shot & Easy Shot only require a Shotgun to be equipped somewhere.
By contrast, Blunt Mastery & Edged Mastery perks list the requirement of having your R-Hand weapon being of the type of the perk line where the action originates from.
Pistol Mastery on the other hand has no such restrictions, and all perks just require a Pistol being wielded.

Of course you'd want a Pistol in the R-Hand and Shotgun in the L-Hand so that your other perks benefit from the better Pistol AR when checking.

Difference between PDKP and IDBEP bursts is high, so you can sacrifice 1 dd perk that you can use every 90 sec. Another bad surprise about PDKP is small clip, so 1-2 bullet burst happens often enough and you have to wait until it's reloaded instead of pressing special attack buttons.

Nice discussion. Assuming I willing to give up the 90 seconds shotgun damage perk. One remaining issue to resolve is to cap burst recharge on IDBEP. My engineer is sitting at 1431 burst selfed(300 CC set/284 EOE). Which will put my burst recharge to 12 seconds or so

Let me set the argument to "Yes or No to give up "Point-Blank" perk damage" or differential in damage output over 90 seconds.

A) If I put IDBEP on right hand,
- Burst recharge is 12 seconds.

Result:
- 7 burst. (12+1) seconds @ 90/13 = 7 burst.
- Lose "Point Blank" damage perk.

B)If I put PDKP on right hand,
- Burst recharge is 8 seconds.

Result:
- 10 burst. (8+1) seconds @ 90/9= 10 burst.
- Have "Point Blank" damage perk.

[Alceona]

My engineer can cap burst on IDBEP. I can do 1670 burst self in setup like in my signature, but with small changes in symbiants: alpha right hand, alpha right wrist, ql 300 burst right arm implant. As for me I see more reasonable to use low IP dd setups.

I dont recomend to focus on dd only. I enjoy all aspects of being engineer: PVP, DD, Top Craft, Solo PVM. There are many good DD setups that won't make you number one, but number two or three in zerg raids dd charts:

1) sloth of the xan crit setup (Highest possible crits + massive perk damage + cheap IP cost)
2) AMEP-empty left hand crit setup (Good critical damage + High burts + cheap IP cost)
3) 1 pdkp crit setup (Good critical damage + High burts + cheap IP cost)
4) 2 PDKP crit setup (Good critical damage + High burts)

It is possible to do the best dd setup like PDKP-IDBEP, IDBEP-PDKP or AMEP-PDKP, but It is imposible to tell you which one does the best dd, because those setups have small differences and the highest damage will do more concentrated player. More over, those setups are used for exotic pvp configurations like AMEP-onehander, Troaller-PDKP and silverback with perk reset every time of switching from pvm to pvp.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

My engineer can cap burst on IDBEP. I can do 1670 burst self in setup like in my signature, but with small changes in symbiants: alpha right hand, alpha right wrist, ql 300 burst right arm implant. As for me I see more reasonable to use low IP dd setups.

I dont recomend to focus on dd only. I enjoy all aspects of being engineer: PVP, DD, Top Craft, Solo PVM. There are many good DD setups that won't make you number one, but number two or three in zerg raids dd charts:

1) sloth of the xan crit setup (Highest possible crits + massive perk damage + cheap IP cost)
2) AMEP-empty left hand crit setup (Good critical damage + High burts + cheap IP cost)
3) 1 pdkp crit setup (Good critical damage + High burts + cheap IP cost)
4) 2 PDKP crit setup (Good critical damage + High burts)

It is possible to do the best dd setup like PDKP-IDBEP, IDBEP-PDKP or AMEP-PDKP, but It is imposible to tell you which one does the best dd, because those setups have small differences and the highest damage will do more concentrated player. More over, those setups are used for exotic pvp configurations like AMEP-onehander, Troaller-PDKP and silverback with perk reset every time of switching from pvm to pvp.

Not to mention the "tried and true" AMEP + IDBEP

I mean, really, for 1400 MR which isn't exactly hard to reach with alphas, you're in a setup that is extremely effective (on par with previous top engi DD setups, AMEP+bigburger FA setup) but with crit stacked (27%+) you're getting into top DD setups period.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned - well it has, but it was erroneous - is that someone said you'd want to keep pistol in right hand to get top AR boost for perk damage - but only AI perks will check that and AI perks don't scale on AR, they only scale on number perks in the line and whether pre-reqs are running.

Pistol perks will check pistol AR for damage, shotty perks will check shotgun skill for damage so that means you can use PDKP on RH with IDBEP on LH and you should crank top damage.

[Wakizaka]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned - well it has, but it was erroneous - is that someone said you'd want to keep pistol in right hand to get top AR boost for perk damage - but only AI perks will check that and AI perks don't scale on AR, they only scale on number perks in the line and whether pre-reqs are running.

Pistol perks will check pistol AR for damage, shotty perks will check shotgun skill for damage so that means you can use PDKP on RH with IDBEP on LH and you should crank top damage.

I didn't mean for damage purposes, I meant for landings perk in Pv[P|M].
I could have written it clearer, but it's fairly obvious what the point was.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I didn't mean for damage purposes, I meant for landings perk in Pv[P|M].
I could have written it clearer, but it's fairly obvious what the point was.

ya, for landing perks.. but for AI perks it probably only matters for PVP, and maybe once a year in PVM when you fight the turret for DB quest or something.

But realistically, who in their right mind would use PDKP for PVP? the obvious setup is tro+Peh or silverback or something

[Wakizaka]

But realistically, who in their right mind would use PDKP for PVP? the obvious setup is tro+Peh or silverback or something

Some people like to casually PvP with their DD setup. :P
Not saying it's an optimal choice for PvP, but it can still be fun.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Some people like to casually PvP with their DD setup. :P
Not saying it's an optimal choice for PvP, but it can still be fun.

I get it.

But lets be honest... if we're talking about PVP, the loss of a ~5000 damage special every 11s at the expense of some beefier crit damage is a pretty reasonable tradeoff.

I still use troa'ler +peh'wer on my engi for the simple fact that my non-PVP damage is about 96% of what it could be, while my PVP damage is pretty much capped.

I honestly don't think any setup for most PVP encounters / venues can beat peh+tro. It's just too good to pass up the 3rd special.

Now, if someone wants to talk about envy... I'm all ears.

[appolonia]

Just to know, is Peh legit just because of fling, and how high is your skill ? I never bothered getting another lust and just kept my good old burst-capped AMEP, for MultiR purpose mainly (and IP overall).

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Just to know, is Peh legit just because of fling, and how high is your skill ? I never bothered getting another lust and just kept my good old burst-capped AMEP, for MultiR purpose mainly (and IP overall).

iirc my fling on engineer isn't capped, I think it's around 1400ish, but could go up to about 1700 I think if maxed. It's capped recharge though... pretty easy to cap recharge on fling.. I think it only takes about 1200 skill with a 1.2 att weap.