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Thread: Nt

  1. #1

    Nt

    i would like a bit more diversity between the offensive/defensive playstyles. We are headed in the right direction but we havent hit that sweet spot yet. i dnt want just more damge or more defense, some utility would be nice! For example
    "Nanobot Mirage", a reverse Dtn nano that drains my opponents nano instead of my own, "Nanobot Clone" , the person affect sees three targetable nts on screen but only one is real, and last but not least "Izgimmer's Mind Trick", the affected shortcut bar is randomized along with movement keys.

  2. #2
    I definitely love ideas like this.

    I see these more as tactics, and as such, I think should fall under a defensive NT's toolset. Offensive should be almost entirely focused on damaging the opponent, and killing him before he kills you.

    Defensive NT's strategy is a bit underwhelming, from a PVP side. It would make sense to be more tactical, as it only adds to the overall fun of actually playing NT.

    I don't know if current game mechanics would allow those ideas to happen, but they are definitely interesting. I'd appreciate some additional constructive criticism on these.

    What do you guys think?
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by ameratsu View Post
    and last but not least "Izgimmer's Mind Trick", the affected shortcut bar is randomized along with movement keys.
    I really dislike this idea. Anyone who played League of Legends in season 2 remembers the Shaco box fear. It was ultimately changed for the same fundamental reason that this idea is bad.
    Anything that fundamentally removes or inhibits control of your character in a random way has no place in player vs. player gaming.
    The Fine Arts:
    Mime | Surgery | Zen
    The Traitor


    Xirayne: I couldn't care less about who is clueless or what the exact definition "real" pvp is in ao, I want "fun" pvp!

  4. #4
    True, but that doesn't stop other professions from using Fears.

    But, of the three, that's probably the one I like least. If we had Neuronal Stunner get adjusted to have 2 second recharge, and 60 second line cool down, I think I'd happier with it. I do NOT want Neuronal Stunner to be usable in Offensive Focus, though, just so we're clear.

    That's another thing that comes to mind talking about these types of things.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by sultryvoltron View Post
    I really dislike this idea. Anyone who played League of Legends in season 2 remembers the Shaco box fear. It was ultimately changed for the same fundamental reason that this idea is bad.
    Anything that fundamentally removes or inhibits control of your character in a random way has no place in player vs. player gaming.
    the enfo/crat/ma fears inhibit control of my character. On top of that the new enfo charge! allows him to run while rooted....Why cant my nt have some type of tactical ability in pvp?

  6. #6
    Some pvp orientated nanopool dots for def nts, that drains nanopool and increases cost for executing nanoprograms.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ameratsu View Post
    the enfo/crat/ma fears inhibit control of my character. On top of that the new enfo charge! allows him to run while rooted....Why cant my nt have some type of tactical ability in pvp?
    He's not saying we shouldn't have tactics. What I think he's saying, is taking away control of another person's input is kind of cheese play.

    I think there's a big difference between cheese play and tactical options, and we should avoid cheese. That is one reason I asked for the black screen effect to go away on our blinds. That was a cheese mechanic that everyone hated, except NT's. I think it was fair that we surrendered that for the good of overall gameplay, but we should seek to have a more tactical, cheese-free, game in general.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ameratsu View Post
    the enfo/crat/ma fears inhibit control of my character. On top of that the new enfo charge! allows him to run while rooted....Why cant my nt have some type of tactical ability in pvp?
    The biggest difference is the overall effect of the random event.

    In League of Legends running the wrong way has a significant impact. You could run into an enemy tower, run towards the enemy team, run towards your own tower, etc. The overall effect of this random event (old Shaco fear) is significant. It can range from absolutely no effect (running in a straight line towards safety) to completely devastating (running in a straight line towards danger). Both of these results are very frustrating for one player or the other.

    If we take the above suggestion of randomly mixing up keybinds and direction inputs the overall effect is similarly significant. The effect could similarly range from no effect (changes AS from keybind 1 to keybind 9, player mashes all buttons and you still get hit with AS) to absolutely devastating (AS gets swapped with CH, player CH's you instead of AS). Similarly, both of these results are frustrating for each player.

    That is the kind of game-balance that you never want in your game. You never want an ability to have a potentially devastating effect that does not require player effort to execute.
    The Fine Arts:
    Mime | Surgery | Zen
    The Traitor


    Xirayne: I couldn't care less about who is clueless or what the exact definition "real" pvp is in ao, I want "fun" pvp!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by sultryvoltron View Post
    The biggest difference is the overall effect of the random event.

    In League of Legends running the wrong way has a significant impact. You could run into an enemy tower, run towards the enemy team, run towards your own tower, etc. The overall effect of this random event (old Shaco fear) is significant. It can range from absolutely no effect (running in a straight line towards safety) to completely devastating (running in a straight line towards danger). Both of these results are very frustrating for one player or the other.

    If we take the above suggestion of randomly mixing up keybinds and direction inputs the overall effect is similarly significant. The effect could similarly range from no effect (changes AS from keybind 1 to keybind 9, player mashes all buttons and you still get hit with AS) to absolutely devastating (AS gets swapped with CH, player CH's you instead of AS). Similarly, both of these results are frustrating for each player.

    That is the kind of game-balance that you never want in your game. You never want an ability to have a potentially devastating effect that does not require player effort to execute.
    Although it is a clever idea, like I said I'm not sold on it.

    The issue is, we could easily have a.. "But... But... But... They have that kinda thing, why can't we?" discussion. I don't like the idea of fearing in PVP. I know in crat's case, it's 100% break chance, but still not really a fan. However, one could argue that simply mixing buttons up is better than your toon performing random, uncontrollable actions. If your key bindings, etc get mixed up, there is the option to simply do nothing for the few seconds it lasts. (playing devil's advocate.) That idea is certainly better than the way fearing works now, IMO. I'm going to deflect on this one, and just say I'd rather have Neuronal Stunner be plausible to use, however not in Offensive Focus.

    However, setting that aside a moment. I like the idea of mirrored toon images that appear real to the opponent. That is very clever. I have no idea on the plausibility of that idea, but I will expand on it. Let's say this makes 3 visible copies of your toon, 2 being fake. If those 2 mirror images also did damage, but using this technique cut the NT's damage in half, I'd still be all for it. Let's also say the mirror images had taunt value associated, so they could be usable in PVM even. But, they'd also have 0 on all AC's so you can plausibly tell which one is fake just by the amount of damage you do to a mirror image. This, of course, would not be usable in Offensive Focus, also.

    I dunno. Mirror image is my favorite I'd say. I just have no idea if it's really possible with current game mechanics or not.
    Last edited by Vinkera; May 23rd, 2015 at 01:06:27. Reason: 2 being fake*
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  10. #10
    The mirror image idea has been brought up many times over the years and discussed to death. We have always been told it would not currently be possible. However saying that, the blink (like WoW mage blink) idea has also been brought up many times and discussed to death and we were also told it wouldn't be possible, but they gave enforcers charge so i dont see why blink would be much different, its just a charge with no target requirement. Maybe it would be possible now ?


    ***Edit***

    Also meant to say im not a fan of the mirror image idea , i just dont feel like it fits in this game. I mean i guess they could pass it off as the NT making 2 holograms of himself or something ? i dunno just doesnt feel right to me.

  11. #11

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuingar-1 View Post
    Kicker of Kell.
    I wish ;p
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

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