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Thread: 18.7.4.8 Testlive Patch notes.

  1. #1

    18.7.4.8 Testlive Patch notes.

    So, we finally have the official word on dual wielding the Cyberdeck with pistols.

    Nano Technicians
    Cyberdecks will invalidate weapon skills
    Slowed down casting time for SL Nukes


    I know the Cyberdeck change will be a bit of a spread with how it's received. Some of you will be glad, some indifferent, some a little pissed. I think it's a good move, and will put us in a position for the possible second gadget item in the future. If not, do keep in mind that using pistols with the Cyberdeck was not intentional, and missed during 18.7 testing. If you went out of your way to get a Lust on your NT recently, I do personally apologize for missing that during testing, and that this happened on Live at all.

    In terms of the casting time changes for SL nukes, I'll have to take a look into those, but I'm away from my PC for a while, yet. I expect those were adjusted to give init debuffers a chance to actually slow our nukes down, since 2 second total cast time on all of them would have made that impossible.

    Both changes sound fair on paper. I'll check these out when I'm at home later today.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  2. #2
    The raise of init for IU is fine taking into acount that ubt wasen't very effective on nt's
    I'm however not sure about the current cap on the nano, still 2 sec? It SEEMS like it's a bit slower to execute on my nt (about 3.3k inits on test) the nano itself is 8 sec attack witch would translate to me instaing it with 3.3k inits, are you able to find out any info on the cap on it ?
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  3. #3
    Well, due to capped casting at 2 seconds, it should only need reduction up to 6 seconds to cast full speed, assuming it is an 8 second cast time.

    I haven't had a chance yet to try it, but I will later. Trust me, if it's cap is even slightly different, I WILL know it
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  4. #4
    In a better world i'de like it insta and move the 2 sec cap to recharge so i can hit more with the nanodeck
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  5. #5
    All SL nukes are 8 seconds so lowbies cant even cap them. Could use an adjustment from 4 seconds for the lvl 50 ones up to 8 for tops ones.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Rockdizzle View Post
    All SL nukes are 8 seconds so lowbies cant even cap them. Could use an adjustment from 4 seconds for the lvl 50 ones up to 8 for tops ones.
    Really?

    Michi and I are going to have to have a little chat about that...

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by nanoforcer View Post
    In a better world i'de like it insta and move the 2 sec cap to recharge so i can hit more with the nanodeck
    Heh, I know where you're coming from, but insta-cast SL nukes is more of a balance problem than it sounds. I could only imagine NT's hopping around like rabbits on Speed, dropping GIVA's and IU's all willy nilly.

    It sounds fun, but it wouldn't be fair. :P
    Last edited by Vinkera; Jun 1st, 2015 at 19:46:47.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  7. #7
    So.. my take on these small changes:

    - Invalidating all weapons skills when equipping a Cyberdeck is fair enough, we can still get a buffing weapon or something on before the CD if we want to make our offhand useful for now, though I wouldn't really recommend IP'ing anything for that purpose alone It also makes sure no FA/AS NT's pop up.. and that CD+Lust isn't suddenly a thing. No surprises there.

    - Slowing down SL nukes.. is weird. SL nukes aren't a huge danger in PvP for the most part.. and in PvM they were mostly.. fine? Instacasting them in full def should be expected for the majority of level ranges given that lower level NT's are already fairly low in single-target DPS...

    For reference:
    2s with 2s cap (0s base real cast time to reduce) takes 200 nano init to cap cast at full def. It's a bit too easy for just about any NT to reach this, no argument there.
    8s with 2s cap (6s base real cast time to reduce) takes 1800 nano init to cap cast at full def. For higher level NT's with over 3k nano init this won't be noticeable. Where this will hurt the most is on lower level NT's that already struggle.

    At 220 in PvP Defensive Focus NT's will notice it with UBT or Zeal+Wasteful Nanobot control. They'll need upwards of 3700 nano init to still instacast at full def.. but this shouldn't make a visible difference to docs or crats. We already lacked the damage to kill docs in DF and crats should be easily able to deal with us as well (though not quite as easily as docs do, those heals do make a sizeable difference).
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  8. #8
    Yea, now that I look at it more, changing the nuke times doesn't really help anything, but actually unbalances and nerfs where clearly none of us understand. As I've been discussing in my "Road ahead" thread, low level SL nukes are pretty useless, but this takes them to a bit of a new level of bad. I don't really understand what happened there, or why I wasn't asked about this. Hopefully it was just a mistake on someone's part.

    I think it's pretty safe to say that Defensive Focus NT isn't extremely threatening. The angle I was looking at is, now Doc's and Crat's have something to debuff, but as Digital said... why? We're not too scary against a doc in Defensive Focus. Maybe that's helpful to a crat, if by chance, we're actually in Defensive Focus in PVP (unlikely).

    But, again, I hope that's some kind of mistake. For what I want to do with the lower SL nukes, that's a HUGE step backwards. If it was intentional, I'm going to assume the person who made that change doesn't understand nano init, hasn't played a lower level NT, and doesn't read my threads.

    Not trying to be mean, just honest.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  9. #9
    You know things are bad when Vinkera gets snarkier than me.

    ^^ Just leaving that there.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  10. #10
    Sorry, but I think I've spelled everything out pretty clearly.

    It's a bit frustrating when we give feedback, I write posts that are miles long of reasonable requests, and we still get something like this. I'm still wanting all my low level NT's out there to be relevant, but it's another step further away from that for them.

    Just a "Wow... Really?" moment...
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  11. #11
    I get that, mate. Other than AoE hecknoobing, NT's are awful in PvM DD at lower levels. I'd even say under 214-215 we're in terrible shape. Not sure how far down it goes but at 120 I know I could likely outdps a Cyberdeck NT with any other prof with minimal twinking. Most professions have great SL dyna weapon options that aren't too hard to come by and make a world of difference (jobe pistols, jame, corpse cutter, lsoti, (c)smg, etc). At 151 they go into the SE Kyr'Ozch weaponry, which yet again leaves us out.

    We could, for example, have a nuke dropping along with the SE Kyr'ozch stuff that helps us get to where we need at 151+. We wouldn't have an easier route to that damage than any other profession but would be able to perform properly. Maybe that nuke is also a Mini-GIVA type thing.

    Just throwing an idea out there.. could also be replicated for other parts of the game's content, too.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    I get that, mate. Other than AoE hecknoobing, NT's are awful in PvM DD at lower levels. I'd even say under 214-215 we're in terrible shape. Not sure how far down it goes but at 120 I know I could likely outdps a Cyberdeck NT with any other prof with minimal twinking. Most professions have great SL dyna weapon options that aren't too hard to come by and make a world of difference (jobe pistols, jame, corpse cutter, lsoti, (c)smg, etc). At 151 they go into the SE Kyr'Ozch weaponry, which yet again leaves us out.

    We could, for example, have a nuke dropping along with the SE Kyr'ozch stuff that helps us get to where we need at 151+. We wouldn't have an easier route to that damage than any other profession but would be able to perform properly. Maybe that nuke is also a Mini-GIVA type thing.

    Just throwing an idea out there.. could also be replicated for other parts of the game's content, too.
    I'd go so far to say, NT's are pretty awful from level 1-214. AoE hecknoobing, I can't even knock anyone for doing. Otherwise we've got RK single target, massive taunting nukes, and still no Nullity Sphere shop buyable. With the taunt values on the RK nukes, it's actually more of a liability having an NT in a heck team using them. Been there, done that.

    Anyway...

    GIVA style nuke dropping from S7 sounds like a great idea to me.

    Although I wrote out all the details of the nanos themselves, I never bothered with where to actually get them.
    Last edited by Vinkera; Jun 2nd, 2015 at 12:08:33.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  13. #13
    I have to admit I was quite disappointed to read SL Nukes getting longer cast times from a lower-than-TL7 perspective. Very disappointed, in fact. My TL5 NT can't cap some of her stuff unless I go 50% agg-def and she has a lot of nanoinit. SL nukes are worthless before then anyway. I agree with Vink, it's a big step backwards

    Ophiuchus : 220/30/80 HAHA etc
    Nahuatl
    :: 220/30/80 Melee 4lyfe
    Khurkh :: 220/30/80 healtankpew
    Transcendence
    Msanthropic
    : 210/26/60 nanostab
    Spidershiva :: 165/23/42 kite? eh?
    Silentmotion
    : 150/20/42 tankthink
    The Union

  14. #14
    My idea is that if they're good enough to give us a certain power range in damage (let's say.. with this a level NT could reliably perform in DD alongside a 100 sold/adv with a jobe pistol on), we'd have to go through a similar ordeal (or have someone with a higher level character like is often the case) to get the nano.

    Just in case it's brought up.. The twinking for those weapons nowadays is peanuts at level 100, as they're doable at 60 for the most part. I don't think we should pop in a nano and have that kind of damage at 60, though we should have some option to twink up to.. can't think of something now tho
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  15. #15
    I can't really think of anything myself there - Spec 2 requirement would hard-cap the min cast level to 90 which seems restrictive. Don't want to just go with higher MC reqs because then you'd need to bug an MP every time you want to play, like an engi does, instead of bugging a trader one time only to equip the weapons. Could attach the nano to the end of a Yutto quest in Ely maybe? Not talking Scheol quest here! The weapons aren't NODROP so they're easy to get hold of and straightforward to twink on. Emulating that for a caster nano is tricky.

    Ophiuchus : 220/30/80 HAHA etc
    Nahuatl
    :: 220/30/80 Melee 4lyfe
    Khurkh :: 220/30/80 healtankpew
    Transcendence
    Msanthropic
    : 210/26/60 nanostab
    Spidershiva :: 165/23/42 kite? eh?
    Silentmotion
    : 150/20/42 tankthink
    The Union

  16. #16
    Well the "easy" answer would be to have nanos directed at twinking / high performance that would require higher stats (MC being key here but we could think of something else too) to upload than to cast the highest tier.. by the same factor as one would OE a gun.

    This is far from ideal, though..
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  17. #17
    omg my pistol NT is gone again?
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  18. #18
    Yes.

    Like I said, I'm personally sorry that even made it to live. It wasn't intentional at all.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  19. #19
    I could swear that there is now a 3 sec cap on sl nukes, only tested on IU.
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by nanoforcer View Post
    I could swear that there is now a 3 sec cap on sl nukes, only tested on IU.
    They do feel slower.. but I thought it was just my mind. Will check that asap.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

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