Change Collector WU drop to silver box loot! And off the body as well!

[Jailshank]

Hello all, I've just got a quick suggestion to run by all of you today:

---I am thinking that the collector weapon upgrades that currently drop from the Collector's gold chests should instead drop from silver boxes, *And potentially they should drop as a rare drop off of the Collector's body itself as well (Not from a box, but next to the boxes on the Collector body).---

I have recently been trying to farm a Xan Weapon Upgrade from Collector (for my 200 twink, hence the Collector) and I have been noticing a huge difference between the relative value of Weapon Upgrades that drop from golden chests, and the value of items that drop from silver chests. And to just get straight to the point, myself and several Collector farming org mates share the opinion that the Xan Weapon Upgrade's are far more fitting of a drop from silver boxes than gold.

Allow me to clarify and specify:
Xan weapon upgrades have taken a huuuge price crash recently due to the changes in 18.7, to the point where they are sold for 10-20m. And that is if they can be sold at all, and a lot of them just rot these days. But, the only WU's that are acquirable for level 200's are the ones that drop from Collector's golden boxes.

On that note, here are some other things I can think of that drop from gold boxes : *ACDC / Supple bots / Strong bots / Ellts / RBP / Alien probes / Alpha + Beta Matrix* (All I can think of at present, but I'm sure there are more super rare super valuable drops). -As you can see these drops are extremely valuable and extremely rare, absolutely overshadowing the WU's current 10-20m value.
*
And then there are also Silver box drops to be taken into consideration : *DCHEST / IGOC* (Once again I'm sure there are more it's just getting late for me!). -As you can see, silver box drops are nothing to complain about, in particular the IGOC of course. And when I say "nothing to complain about", the real point that should be observed is that the potential drops from golden and even silver boxes as well are way more valuable than a WU.

Granted, before 18.7, WU's were incredibly more expensive and at that point in time, having them drop from gold Collector boxes made much more sense! Regardless of then vs now, I would like to ask you all reading this : what do you think?

1). Should WU's be kept as only gold box drops to preserve the extreme rarity and challenge of creating a 200 twink with a XAN weapon?
2). Should WU's be changed to silver box drops to more accurately reflect their decreased value since 18.7? -- (My personal favorite option, and the ideal compromise in my opinion)
3). Should WU's drop from the Collector body itself? -- (Making it possible for Collector farm teams to sell WU lootrights to 200's, seems like a good option as well)
4). Should WU's be just made into Yesdrop loot? -- (An idea I've heard tossed around a considerable amount since the WU price crash happened and WU's starting rotting regularly)
5). Do you have any other thoughts? I'm not trying to limit the responses to a group of 4 preset questions or anything, that is just all I can think of at the present moment =]

In conclusion I am looking forward to your responses; And I would also just like to mention again that if you have any other ideas / solution etc for the apparent value and rarity mismatch of Xan weapon Upgrades to their Collector's golden box counterparts, please mention it! o/

[sultryvoltron]

I disagree. Don't think of it in terms of value it is sold for but in difficulty to acquire.

As a level 200 you have a chance to get any of those other items because you can physically go to where they drop.

You cannot go to Xan. You're asking for an item that you cannot get any other way than collector to be a common drop. I don't think that should even be remotely considered by Michi.

[appolonia]

You missed the best part Sult, WU dropping from Coll's body so that people could SELL it ! Woohoo ! Yeah, I'm sure Michi would agree.

#1 is legit, the rest is brain farts. Next time get to sleep before "thinking", and try to avoid relaying any random crap from random stupids you hear.

If any, ask for 200s being able to access Xan, not to make Collector a freeloot fest, but even then it would require too much of a twinking for little to no benefit. On the other hand, dropping a WU form Coll AND being able to equip a Xan weapon at 200 would be like the first EoT bearer, the first 220, the first AI30, it would mean something. Even if it was frankly more about bragging with OE stuff

[Teeko]

I think WU's should drop from silver boxes. Theres no reason to keep them gold boxes and have them at the same rarity as an ACDC. ACDC drops in collector, for example, are double edged swords because you effectively lose the box if you already have the unique item. Point is, however, theres no particular "need" for a 200 to have a xan weapon, however theres no reason it should be practically impossible for them either. It doesn't give anyone a significant advantage, however it will be done for the "cool factor". Theres no downside to people getting access to a WU a bit easier, because it won't skew 200 pvp significantly.

[Jailshank]

Alrighty interesting replies...

@Teeko : You raise several good points - 200's truly don't need the XAN weapons, and having one wouldn't guarantee world domination in PVP either. So I agree its not like they should be the same as an ACDC when their impact on 200 game play is so minimal.

@Sultry : I am not asking for WU's to be "common drop", as you described. They would be equivalent to an IGOC / DCHEST if they dropped from silver boxes, which is not common (Did I really need to say that? I mean really? I think I can feel my IQ dropping...thanks Sultry). And my exact wording regarding potential drops off the body itself were : "And potentially they should drop as a rare drop off of the Collector's body itself as well", since remembering something you read 30 seconds ago is such a haaaaassle isn't it? That being said, I understand that your opinion is against making these drop from silvers or off the body so no need to say anymore, please, don't make me any dumber-er!

@Appalonia : If 200's were allowed into the XAN outpost as you are suggesting, then people would be selling WU's to 200's! Which is literally the exact concept you mocked with your first statement you sarcastic self-contradicting dunce. As a side note if you think anyone would make a XAN weapon for a profession that would have to have it OE at 200 to wear it, you probably shouldn't consider yourself mentally capable of discussing pretty much any aspect of this post! I would say the sub 100 IQ troll attempt was appreciated but...no.

-As an afterthought I think it should be said : If you disagree with my opinion about making WU's drop from silver boxes or off the Collector body, you can just say you agree with #1 (or explain why else you feel that way), and we can respectfully discuss it like intelligent beings - I'm pretty sure the average age of the AO community is well above the threshold for attention seeking Appalonia's *Ahem* sorry I mean to say trolls, *attention seeking trolls*. There is also no need to pull a "Sultry", and ignore everything I said and play in imagination land, which must be the place where he heard me suggest we make these common drops.

[Rockdizzle]

2) Mainly because I feel the reward/time is too low, I would be upset a year ago if I got a WU from a gold on a 220 even when they were uncommon in Xan.

I would feel much more inclined to farm collector if the chance of getting a WU was from silvers instead of golds, even than you would need 100 *bronze boxes give or take to even have decent odds of anything good from silver.
Way back(years ago) when WUs first used to drop from collector they came from silver boxes and it took about 200ish bronze boxes for a friend to get a WU for his 200 keeper, long story short it got deleted since it wasn't intended to drop (still waiting for when Blackdhalia's xan weap also gets deleted for the same reason).

About the 75% xan weapons, I calced some for a couple profs awhile ago and the only prof that would have a 75% xan weapon(s) in a ideal setup is Adv with Peh'wer+Troa'ler selfed (no towers/contracts). http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=197866
Doctor/Crat can keep Lust 100% while being unable to do peh'wer/troa'ler at all, both have better options tho a Crat could offhand it.
Soldier plain can't equip Envy/Anger, can 100% a lust I guess tho.
MP can 100% Chaos but Tigress is better,
Fixer can 100% Envy and Rhat'ata but can't have both on, http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=192712
Agent can 100% Chaos/Angst/Lust,
Trader can 100% Greed, needs I drain up if I remember right,
Keeper can 100% Pride and Dusk/Dawn,
MA can 100% Tonfax2 or Tonfa+Force Blade,
NT can equip Lust but a NT is pretty useless with a Lust as it requires CSS,
Shade can 100% Deceitsx2,
Engineer can 100% Lusts but no sane person would equip a lust on a engi, cant do sloth at all,
Enforcer can 100% gluttony/Ban'zor/hatred/Abandonment/Kur'ush, Dualing 2 Hatreds is not possible but a Hatred and Abandonment is. Each weapon requires a specific setup to pull it off.

[Jailshank]

Wow Rockdizzle hell yeah thanks for doing all that calc'ing! Alot of interesting possibilities there now if only we could get some WU's! XD its gonna be cool to see the first person in battlestation with a Xan weapon, and then eventually someday maybe dual wield madness XD Can't wait to see what the dev's think of this!

[Cratertina]

What devs should think is: people want new intresting weapons for endgame.

Xan weapons are ok for 200 twinks, 210 levelers and 220 gimps.

But everyone else gets better if they can.

[sultryvoltron]

@Sultry : I am not asking for WU's to be "common drop", as you described. They would be equivalent to an IGOC / DCHEST if they dropped from silver boxes, which is not common (Did I really need to say that? I mean really? I think I can feel my IQ dropping...thanks Sultry). And my exact wording regarding potential drops off the body itself were : "And potentially they should drop as a rare drop off of the Collector's body itself as well", since remembering something you read 30 seconds ago is such a haaaaassle isn't it? That being said, I understand that your opinion is against making these drop from silvers or off the body so no need to say anymore, please, don't make me any dumber-er!

Wow, that's one hell of a reply.

Let me restate my points in a more clear way because you apparently perceive certain word choices as dumb.

1) Level 200 characters can participate in the standard content where all Bronze, Silver, and Gold items drop EXCEPT for Weapon Upgrade.
2) The only way for a level 200 character to obtain a Weapon Upgrade is through Collector, and the fact that WUs even drop at all is surprising.

This suggestion has essentially no beneficial effect for 201+ characters.
You should be thankful that they drop in a way that you can get them at all, and they should be extremely rare for a non-201+ to obtain because the standard content to obtain this item is locked above the level that you want to twink at.

If you want easy access to Xan weapons then level to 201.

[Teeko]

This is not asking for "easy" access. It is just saying that it is kind of ridiculous that WUs are in the same "league" as ql 300 supple bots and ACDCs, which also come from the same content and the same rarity (gold boxes). They aren't as rare or valuable as those things, and there is no reason they should drop at the same "difficulty" or rarity.

[sultryvoltron]

Yes there is good reason for WUs from gold boxes.

The same rules of rarity cannot apply for WUs because Collector dropping these at all is providing access to loot for characters that 100% absolutely cannot participate in the content where the loot comes from normally. You can get the Invasion Plans on a level 1 through the standard content. You cannot get a WU.

WUs are therefore a pariah in the collector loot table. Because it is thus the most unique item in the collector loot table I think it is totally fair that the standard rules of rarity do not apply and that WUs continue to drop only from gold chests.

[DigitalBath]

Yes there is good reason for WUs from gold boxes.

The same rules of rarity cannot apply for WUs because Collector dropping these at all is providing access to loot for characters that 100% absolutely cannot participate in the content where the loot comes from normally. You can get the Invasion Plans on a level 1 through the standard content. You cannot get a WU.

WUs are therefore a pariah in the collector loot table. Because it is thus the most unique item in the collector loot table I think it is totally fair that the standard rules of rarity do not apply and that WUs continue to drop only from gold chests.

This. As much as I hate getting a WU on my characters that have no use for it.. the fact it's the only way a sub-201 can get it makes the rarity increase on Boxes justified.

[Teeko]

It still shouldn't be on the same rarity level as an ACDC. A sub 201 can't use most of the nodrop collector loot, yet they will undeniably get tons of it. Just think the amount of boxes you will have to loot just to get something decent out of a silver box. It is still plenty to justify allowing a sub 201 to get a WU from silver rather than gold.

[Pomidor]

It still shouldn't be on the same rarity level as an ACDC. A sub 201 can't use most of the nodrop collector loot, yet they will undeniably get tons of it. Just think the amount of boxes you will have to loot just to get something decent out of a silver box. It is still plenty to justify allowing a sub 201 to get a WU from silver rather than gold.

Exacly what I thought about it.

[Discipline]

Wow, that's one hell of a reply.

Let me restate my points in a more clear way because you apparently perceive certain word choices as dumb.

1) Level 200 characters can participate in the standard content where all Bronze, Silver, and Gold items drop EXCEPT for Weapon Upgrade.
2) The only way for a level 200 character to obtain a Weapon Upgrade is through Collector, and the fact that WUs even drop at all is surprising.

This suggestion has essentially no beneficial effect for 201+ characters.
You should be thankful that they drop in a way that you can get them at all, and they should be extremely rare for a non-201+ to obtain because the standard content to obtain this item is locked above the level that you want to twink at.

If you want easy access to Xan weapons then level to 201.

The above.

The mistake Teeko is doing is that he's comparing importance/usefulness of ACDC with the usefulness/importance of WU on a level 200 and even more, the price of the WU for 201+ with the price for the WU for a chars under 201. If you compare that, then you should multiply by probably 500 and you'll get an equal value.

Xan is plain and simple a level 201+ instance. Meaning everything that comes from it shouldn't be possible to be used/worn by a level 200. Symbiants have a 201 level lock, Spirits have a level 201 level lock, Screwdrivers are No-Drop, Xan Belt has a 201 level lock, etc. So, basically, any 200 should not be able to use/wear any Xan loot. The whole story behind WU from Collector is the moment in time when about 2 or 3 people got it (and some of them had it removed) when it shouldn't have been possible. As it shouldn't be possible. But since that happened and to satisfy people's "his goat should die too!", they added it on Gold Chests with very, very small chance to drop.

Having a Xan weapon on a 200 twink is a very big difference, regardless of what some people comment here. Any 200 PvPer feels the difference when he's fighting an Agent with Ofab and an Agent with Angst or a Keeper with Pride. So that's a big con to making it easy to obtain.

Looking at it, over-all, people, as usually, when they have to work their ass off to have the most perfect and best build and they don't wanna do it, they just want to get the end result, they start complaining. ("I'm a PvPer, add CSS/CC to Ofab shop." / "I'm a PvPer, why do I have to level?" / "I'm a PvMer, why do I have to do towers?" / "I'm a PvMer, why can people attack me if I'm flagged in a Non-PvP area?" / "Please change the PvP title system, I don't wanna loose my title after I gain it." etc., etc.)

Another mistake people make here is that they state if WU is added to Silver box (comparing with IGoC/Dchest this time) it will still be very hard to get a WU. All but nonsense. I got 5 IGoCs from 1 set of boxes. I get a DChest for every 3-5 sets opened. Not the mention all the other crap. I also got ACDC 3 times from a total of 24 sets.

Over-all, I keep thinking of what makes AO be AO. And when I think about it, I realise that most of the things that makes you feel good when you achieve something in this game are getting changed because people complain. Arid quest and Neretva quests are now empty and useless; DB quest is now cake to do; PvP system is a free-farm system with nothing to loose; flag is on a 5minutes timer; rare nanos are now shop buyable and now people complain about WU and how it should be "easier" to obtain.

You want a perfect build? Work your ass for it.
You want to have those unique items or nanos for your characters? Go ahead and farm your ass off.
You want PvP titles? Then fight to be better and protect it, don't ask to make it easier.
You want WU on a level 200 so you feel good and have an extra advantage over the others? Then it should be hard and difficult (specially cuz of the level lock) so that it's worth it.

Everything that makes this game interesting (as far as interaction with others go) is getting changed or pulled out. We're becoming a league of "easy-do, easy-play".

Anyway, I tend to miss the old times when people actually had fun "competing" with each other. Now things are getting too easy, needing a lot less time and effort to play. Which is not fun, at least for me. Fun was back in the day when you had to invest a lot of time and energy, raiding and farming with friends so that you may have a good char,

Long story short, WU's should be 201+. Having it as a very, very rare drop at Collector is the only exception when it would make sense. Otherwise, just change Xan to RK and make it warpable. Or remove the 201+ lock.

[Wakizaka]

I got 5 IGoCs from 1 set of boxes.

WTB your luck.

[Rockdizzle]

Another mistake people make here is that they state if WU is added to Silver box (comparing with IGoC/Dchest this time) it will still be very hard to get a WU. All but nonsense. I got 5 IGoCs from 1 set of boxes. I get a DChest for every 3-5 sets opened. Not the mention all the other crap. I also got ACDC 3 times from a total of 24 sets.

You can make those pure luck numbers as big as you want, they just have no place here where we want the realistic "99% of the time results" if anything. Of the years of collector I've done plus the recent 20ish box sets I bought I've yet to see even double IGoCs or IGoC+DChest from sets. If you got that many than congrats but everyone else is gonna be opening tons(20+) of sets just to get the same amount of IGoCs from your 1 set.

This is sets we're talking about also, you either gotta buy 6 boxes(250mil a set) or you loot 1 box at a time and hope.
Not everyone is selling boxes and it can't be MBd alone so you have at most 1 person at a time spending billions of creds(earned from doing other stuff) on average hoping to get 1 item he may not even get after 15-20 sets, or several people looting 1 box at a time and none of them could get a single gold chest after 10 runs due to picking the wrong box. The odds are just not that high yet I wish they were honestly.

If we went by your numbers as the "norm" we should see 200s with xan weapons already (Blackdhalia doesn't count) or have confirmation if it's correctly in gold boxes yet but we havn't.

If WUs were to be moved to Silver chests the most logical place to put them is in the same loot table as Gold chests drop meaning that you only have 2 chances at it instead of 4. All that does is cut out the 1 in 8 chance from golds.
Link below if you don't know what I mean
https://aoitems.com/item/286561/silv...the-collector/

The other possibility is simply removing those damn Alien Probes and Matrix Boxes that no one want to get in golds, not a big change(12.5% to 20%) but a compromise if all else fails as it benefits even those not farming for WUs.

Having a Xan weapon on a 200 twink is a very big difference, regardless of what some people comment here. Any 200 PvPer feels the difference when he's fighting an Agent with Ofab and an Agent with Angst or a Keeper with Pride. So that's a big con to making it easy to obtain.

Can't feel the difference if no one has one, Blackdhalia has a xan weapon from way back before but kills 200s slower than my bow Agent so I don't get what you mean. Also Tara sword > Pride just to point out since even 220s know that Tara sword is better.

[Teeko]

Wow, that's one hell of a reply.

Let me restate my points in a more clear way because you apparently perceive certain word choices as dumb.

1) Level 200 characters can participate in the standard content where all Bronze, Silver, and Gold items drop EXCEPT for Weapon Upgrade.
2) The only way for a level 200 character to obtain a Weapon Upgrade is through Collector, and the fact that WUs even drop at all is surprising.

This suggestion has essentially no beneficial effect for 201+ characters.
You should be thankful that they drop in a way that you can get them at all, and they should be extremely rare for a non-201+ to obtain because the standard content to obtain this item is locked above the level that you want to twink at.

If you want easy access to Xan weapons then level to 201.

Level 200 characters can NOT participate in the standard content where all Bronze, Silver, and Gold items drop EXCEPT for Weapon Upgrade. Go try to enter s42 with a level 200 character.

The above.

The mistake Teeko is doing is that he's comparing importance/usefulness of ACDC with the usefulness/importance of WU on a level 200 and even more, the price of the WU for 201+ with the price for the WU for a chars under 201. If you compare that, then you should multiply by probably 500 and you'll get an equal value.

No, I'm comparing both. I'm comparing the usefulness of an ACDC vs a WU at 220, and the usefulness of an ACDC vs a WU at 200, both of the relevant levels here. At either level ones more useless, and you would probably end up with tons of other useless stuff at either level. However, at neither level would a WU be at the same level as a WU. A WU is never at the same rarity as an ACDC, and never at the same usefulness. I'd like to know where you got your stats from that "Any 200 PvPer feels the difference when he's fighting an Agent with Ofab and an Agent with Angst or a Keeper with Pride." because I've never seen either while pvping at 200.

I realize that you have gotten stupid lucky with collector boxes, but I've farmed it enough to know those numbers are not even close to reality, in a long term situation. Your just stupid lucky. Congrats to you, however it doesn't really serve this thread because your the only one I know that is THAT lucky. I wouldn't mind if WUs stayed in gold boxes, if they maintained their rarity at level 220, because the fact of the matter is, if I'm farming an ACDC at collector, I have the same chance of getting a WU. ACDC and a WU are not even close to the same level of difficulty to obtain. And getting that WU, when its terribly easy to get 3 of them to drop on any given 12 man, is just insane. Unless of course, you go and lock collector at 200, which is absolutely never going to happen, obviously.

[sultryvoltron]

Level 200 characters can NOT participate in the standard content where all Bronze, Silver, and Gold items drop EXCEPT for Weapon Upgrade. Go try to enter s42 with a level 200 character.

Well that's just another very valid reason that WU should drop from the same chest as ACDC then isn't it?

No, I'm comparing both. I'm comparing the usefulness of an ACDC vs a WU at 220, and the usefulness of an ACDC vs a WU at 200, both of the relevant levels here. At either level ones more useless, and you would probably end up with tons of other useless stuff at either level. However, at neither level would a WU be at the same level as a WU. A WU is never at the same rarity as an ACDC, and never at the same usefulness.

How many people use Xan weapons at 201+?
How many people use an ACDC?

Which one do you really think is more useful? Like... Come on man. At 220 ACDC is a luxury item. At 200 a WU is a luxury item.

[Dysfunction]

I personally would love to see more twinks with can weapons at 200, if they dropped from silver boxes I think that'd be pretty awesome