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Thread: Trader PvP, can we discuss?

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    I walk in to BS... could not perk people... with 3704 AR and 300 AAD drain... NT facerolled me, shade instagibbed me, after a few minutes I just decided not gonna bother.
    So, basically nothing has changed in the last decade.
    Neophyte Nerf"Shareida"Batted First Order
    Freshman Jefferey"Bailan2"Ginsberg - Retired
    Shareidah - First Order

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    it's written in the bible.
    Matthew 23:13 "and the trader hath casteth bulk trader at the young age of 14. and it was good. and so he hath an extra 260 comp lit and he hath equippeth better ncu's. and it was good too.
    A Producer's point of view

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Shareida View Post
    So, basically nothing has changed in the last decade.
    But-but-but Draaaaaiinss!


    Because we all know how OP and broken Traders are, right?

    Trying to convince the vast majority about what Traders realistically can do is a fruitless and impossible task.
    Pricecuts - 220 Trader
    Feel free to contact me via PM or in-game.

    Raggy - 220 Bureaucrat || Raggeh - 220 Fixer | Back as 'Raggys' - Shade for the time being. | Nuclei - 217 Nanotechnician || Nanobiology - 214 Doctor

    Tip #743: As noted in Tip #244, tea bags have an infinite variety of uses. However, there's always one jerk who will want to give you crap over drinking tea. Particularly if in a new town, use this as an opportunity to assert yourself. Any drunken idiot can win a bar fight. It takes a real man to win a bar fight while enjoying a cup of Earl Grey.

  3. #23
    Traders are just fine. Some changes are annoying and unwelcome, mostly CP/IS is a bit confusing, and not having HHAB is a big hole.

    "Realisticaly" You dont have 3.7k AR, thats no secret, but even 3.5k which is easily doable with IS is enough to perk anything almost. I find comments posted here to be totaly invalid. Doesn't seem like anyone is PvPing on trader here..

    As for instagibs, NTs and agents instagib pretty much all unless you are NR8 or engi... that said, trader has a chance to parry/kill both.. unlike some other profs..

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by norge93 View Post
    Traders are just fine. Some changes are annoying and unwelcome, mostly CP/IS is a bit confusing, and not having HHAB is a big hole.

    "Realisticaly" You dont have 3.7k AR, thats no secret, but even 3.5k which is easily doable with IS is enough to perk anything almost. I find comments posted here to be totaly invalid. Doesn't seem like anyone is PvPing on trader here..

    As for instagibs, NTs and agents instagib pretty much all unless you are NR8 or engi... that said, trader has a chance to parry/kill both.. unlike some other profs..
    It's almost like you haven't actually PvP'd on a Trader.
    Pricecuts - 220 Trader
    Feel free to contact me via PM or in-game.

    Raggy - 220 Bureaucrat || Raggeh - 220 Fixer | Back as 'Raggys' - Shade for the time being. | Nuclei - 217 Nanotechnician || Nanobiology - 214 Doctor

    Tip #743: As noted in Tip #244, tea bags have an infinite variety of uses. However, there's always one jerk who will want to give you crap over drinking tea. Particularly if in a new town, use this as an opportunity to assert yourself. Any drunken idiot can win a bar fight. It takes a real man to win a bar fight while enjoying a cup of Earl Grey.

  5. #25
    OP, the best thing to do is go PvP as much as you can with everyone you can find. Trader is hard, but not as bad as you think.

    You won't do well at TL7 just because you twink gear on. The playing field is a lot more even in that regard. I'd start by ditching the PDKP and using a silverback until you get used to it. Much more consistent imo.
    One technique you could try is making a table for each matchup, and what you need more of to win. Sometimes I can win a fight just by equipping another 1k hp.

    You're innately vulnerable to gankers because you have a lot of active defense. You mention Agents a few times in your post. If you'd like to practice that matchup on live, shoot me a /tell on Srompu sometime and we can play around.

    I would really strongly avoid suggesting specific things before you've practiced a huge amount, or you'll get a worse situation. For example, acro or lowered resists on drains is a bad idea, since they increase the off/on effect of trader defense.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by srompu View Post
    OP, the best thing to do is go PvP as much as you can with everyone you can find. Trader is hard, but not as bad as you think.

    You won't do well at TL7 just because you twink gear on. The playing field is a lot more even in that regard. I'd start by ditching the PDKP and using a silverback until you get used to it. Much more consistent imo.
    One technique you could try is making a table for each matchup, and what you need more of to win. Sometimes I can win a fight just by equipping another 1k hp.

    You're innately vulnerable to gankers because you have a lot of active defense. You mention Agents a few times in your post. If you'd like to practice that matchup on live, shoot me a /tell on Srompu sometime and we can play around.

    I would really strongly avoid suggesting specific things before you've practiced a huge amount, or you'll get a worse situation. For example, acro or lowered resists on drains is a bad idea, since they increase the off/on effect of trader defense.
    The problem you seem to mention and then suitably forget about, is the fact that the vast majority of profs in the game now can fall under the 'ganker' label. Nearly everyone has access to fast-firing, low checking, hard-hitting perks that absolutely ignore any form of active defence.

    What can we do when someone can queue up all of their perks before we can land our drains? Traders are still stuck in 2001 from a mechanical standpoint.
    Pricecuts - 220 Trader
    Feel free to contact me via PM or in-game.

    Raggy - 220 Bureaucrat || Raggeh - 220 Fixer | Back as 'Raggys' - Shade for the time being. | Nuclei - 217 Nanotechnician || Nanobiology - 214 Doctor

    Tip #743: As noted in Tip #244, tea bags have an infinite variety of uses. However, there's always one jerk who will want to give you crap over drinking tea. Particularly if in a new town, use this as an opportunity to assert yourself. Any drunken idiot can win a bar fight. It takes a real man to win a bar fight while enjoying a cup of Earl Grey.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by srompu View Post
    OP, the best thing to do is go PvP as much as you can with everyone you can find. Trader is hard, but not as bad as you think.

    You won't do well at TL7 just because you twink gear on. The playing field is a lot more even in that regard. I'd start by ditching the PDKP and using a silverback until you get used to it. Much more consistent imo.
    One technique you could try is making a table for each matchup, and what you need more of to win. Sometimes I can win a fight just by equipping another 1k hp.

    You're innately vulnerable to gankers because you have a lot of active defense. You mention Agents a few times in your post. If you'd like to practice that matchup on live, shoot me a /tell on Srompu sometime and we can play around.

    I would really strongly avoid suggesting specific things before you've practiced a huge amount, or you'll get a worse situation. For example, acro or lowered resists on drains is a bad idea, since they increase the off/on effect of trader defense.
    I wholeheartedly believe that you're genuinely trying to be helpful and supportive with this post and it's not a "L2P!" reply. What I don't think you fully empathize with is the fact that it gets tough to climb into the ring with Tyson / Mayweather and get the living crap beat out of me time and time again and again, with the hopes of eventually learning how to die "less fast." CP/IS and both skill drains are all active defense, all of which land or don't land with varying degrees of success because, as we all know, "being drained sucks." You know, unlike being dead because they don't land.

    Tell me what other class relies on chain casting a series of nanos to build up a defense against other classes that have single key bound a series of perks/specials or against classes with ridiculously overpowered nukes with 50% NR? I'm not sitting here, thinking about a theoretical series of events that don't happen in PvP. I'm telling you that, in the BS, regardless of who sees who first, my initial reaction is to hit a button that queues up some perks, uses Fling/Burst and casts Divest, after which I'll, maybe, try for Plunder or CP/IS. But, truth be told, I'm probably already dead because the perks I'm queuing up aren't nearly as good as other classes, the -375 skills I may have just given someone don't affect the perks they've already queued up that are continuing to hit me, neither will CP/IS.

    I have toons in multiple BS brackets. Traders in the lower brackets are really, really powerful and that's because they can easily drain into nanos/weapons that are well above what other people in those brackets use. You can do the Corporal Ashley Winstead mission for Improved Health Plunder at level 60. Traders upload and use that nano at that level, it's even great in the 100-150 bracket. Let me tell you how good it is in the 220 bracket... not. at. all. All our debuffs are really good in the lower brackets, because in those brackets people are using weapons just barely out of OE range and using nanos just within their skill allotment. Skill drains are devastating and do enough to offset whatever perks other classes are using such that Improved Health Plunder is icing on the cake. That's not the case at 220.

    I was extremely disheartened to read the latest test patch notes. Not a single change/addition/modification to even a single Trader nano.

  8. #28
    The core problem is the non-linear scaling of our primary nanos. The divest and plunder lines. While the skills exponentially get higher after 201, the drains stay linear. To offset this, either heavily nerf the lower ones or buff the higher ones to fit the power curve.
    Neophyte Nerf"Shareida"Batted First Order
    Freshman Jefferey"Bailan2"Ginsberg - Retired
    Shareidah - First Order

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    it's written in the bible.
    Matthew 23:13 "and the trader hath casteth bulk trader at the young age of 14. and it was good. and so he hath an extra 260 comp lit and he hath equippeth better ncu's. and it was good too.
    A Producer's point of view

  9. #29
    hi,

    i have a problem: can anybody write a text whit trader pvp problem where i know?
    i play my trader a few days but all of writer names i dont know, so i'll happy when you write the names of trader IG so i know its a "real" trader or we
    will write many sentence whit "paper-PvP" traders, thx

    Bye

  10. #30
    I have an idea... Gif trader more AAD on evade buff, so its like 250 evades and 250AAD at 215.

    Also remove some AAD from drains. Make trader def more passive in nature.

    I played today against belzabeth... Trader with most pvp kills of any trader.. In full def setup I was perking him rather easilly. Should not be.

    My ingame trader is Wranglertina. Ol girl is retired from pvp. I use her on 250 dynas in inferno... Real fun.

    To bad its not like that in pvp.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  11. #31
    Trader only version of silverback with 1.5 or lower recharge, bring back old corporate protection, and bring back self draining. Trader pvp fixed. It's really that simple but FC won't ever do it.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    I have an idea... Gif trader more AAD on evade buff, so its like 250 evades and 250AAD at 215.

    Also remove some AAD from drains. Make trader def more passive in nature.

    I played today against belzabeth... Trader with most pvp kills of any trader.. In full def setup I was perking him rather easilly. Should not be.

    My ingame trader is Wranglertina. Ol girl is retired from pvp. I use her on 250 dynas in inferno... Real fun.

    To bad its not like that in pvp.
    First step to "fixing" trader PvP will be to not take input from people who are clueless about how it works.

    You claim you cant perk anything with 3.7 AR well thats just an outright lie.

    Second of all, drains dont drain AAD at all.

    For all the instagibbed people posting here I'd suggest to try nanomage absorb coupled with Nanobot defense before posting.

    There is no amount of static defence that traders will get that will make them "not perkable" by almost any proffesion out there, if they dont debuff the target. The only way that can happen is if perhaps the trader has all def towers and 12man, while the opponent has none of that, and even that is relevant to profession.

    Really unsure why you use something like trader on inf dynas and call it fun, its as fun was watching paint dry, whilst wanting PVP on trader be the same way.

    Maybe its best if you (and all the other negative nancys) stop posting in this thread.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by norge93 View Post
    First step to "fixing" trader PvP will be to not take input from people who are clueless about how it works.
    Quote Originally Posted by norge93 View Post
    Second of all, drains dont drain AAD at all.
    Take your own advice.

    AAD Drain

    Quote Originally Posted by norge93 View Post
    For all the instagibbed people posting here I'd suggest to try nanomage absorb coupled with Nanobot defense before posting.
    NBD already has DtN ratio problems, how is adding another layer of nano removal going to help? Unless you're talking about the Dreadloch Coon, at which point, why should a single item be dictating an entire professions PvP capability?

    Quote Originally Posted by norge93 View Post
    Really unsure why you use something like trader on inf dynas and call it fun, its as fun was watching paint dry, whilst wanting PVP on trader be the same way.
    Cool opinion, brah.

    Quote Originally Posted by norge93 View Post
    Maybe its best if you (and all the other negative nancys) stop posting in this thread.
    Oh the irony.
    Pricecuts - 220 Trader
    Feel free to contact me via PM or in-game.

    Raggy - 220 Bureaucrat || Raggeh - 220 Fixer | Back as 'Raggys' - Shade for the time being. | Nuclei - 217 Nanotechnician || Nanobiology - 214 Doctor

    Tip #743: As noted in Tip #244, tea bags have an infinite variety of uses. However, there's always one jerk who will want to give you crap over drinking tea. Particularly if in a new town, use this as an opportunity to assert yourself. Any drunken idiot can win a bar fight. It takes a real man to win a bar fight while enjoying a cup of Earl Grey.

  14. #34
    NBD already has DtN ratio problems, how is adding another layer of nano removal going to help? Unless you're talking about the Dreadloch Coon, at which point, why should a single item be dictating an entire professions PvP capability?
    Let alone forcing a specific breed on us..
    TWADER - Rimor Clanner - 220/31/70 - Trox Trader of Quetzalcoatl
    ATLANTEAN SERVER
    The Firm
    Godt Saa... Eller - STEEL!
    House Maadiah
    RIMOR SERVER
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICCKoruption View Post
    If you go to old athens, or omni entertainment be sure to look for the Rubi-ka museum of natural history. you will find numerous Traders that have been immaculately restored to their original states, some archeological digs were intentionally based around reclaim terminals.
    if you do find a trader still in circulation, be sure to check the expiry date, they are usually marked :best before june 2001.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by norge93 View Post
    For all the instagibbed people posting here I'd suggest to try nanomage absorb coupled with Nanobot defense before posting.
    tfw every single trader is nanomage

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Twangleman View Post
    Let alone forcing a specific breed on us..
    Witty comment.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    Take your own advice.

    AAD Drain
    That used to be "Trader AMS/DMS" line, and by saying "drains" I'd think everyone is adressing divest/plunder.


    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    NBD already has DtN ratio problems, how is adding another layer of nano removal going to help? Unless you're talking about the Dreadloch Coon, at which point, why should a single item be dictating an entire professions PvP capability?
    Except it doesn't, every breed has pro's n con's, in the end its about how you play it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    Cool opinion, brah.
    My opinion is that 250 dynas aren't a challenge on trader... sure its fun to count all the crits, but survivability is easy.
    Something heavier is a challenge, but outside of doing it as an achievement, I doubt anyone will log a trader to farm dyna loot, if you have the option of using other professions with 3x the DPS and 2x easier survival tools and 20x less chance to die.
    Last edited by norge93; Sep 23rd, 2015 at 13:42:39.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by norge93 View Post
    Except it doesn't, every breed has pro's n con's, in the end its about how you play it.
    Clearly it does, if in response to our concerns about survivability of lolhotkey alphas your major response is nanomage cocoon. No other breed gives any appreciable advantage that can best 5k absorbs.
    [[ RYUAHN | 220/21 Opifex Trader
    == Proud Member of Core ==
    [[ ALASTROPHE | 220/15 Solitus Martial-Artist

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    There is literally nothing wrong with {Shutdown Skills} in it's current incarnation. What should be being looked at is the reason why it's needed so much. E.g, the incredible amount of Alpha being thrown around and the fickleness of Evade profs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    I walk in to BS... could not perk people... with 3704 AR and 300 AAD drain... NT facerolled me, shade instagibbed me, after a few minutes I just decided not gonna bother.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Saetos View Post
    Clearly it does, if in response to our concerns about survivability of lolhotkey alphas your major response is nanomage cocoon. No other breed gives any appreciable advantage that can best 5k absorbs.
    Then your problem isnt trader PvP, breed choice or toolset.

    Its the fact someone can que up all perks with one button.

    Since atm the best counter is to soak all that up is nm coon and NBD, not really sure what you are asking for.

    Until SB AS recharge for traders is lowered, opifex wont have 11-13s AS with defense hud, and atrox will still need 10 AI perks for Wit, a choice that will likely lower you AR by alot.

  20. #40
    Silverback recharge rate definitely was a crap move on the trader front, but the somewhat low hp is the hardest thing to deal with in mass pvp. Agent is able to practically insta kill you 99% of the time through the 5k nm absorb heh.
    Devil Inside
    Demon Inside

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