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Thread: Melee perks nerf

  1. #1

    Melee perks nerf

    Hey there,

    I also didn't like that dual perks some enfs used (1hb+1he) but it was play style, that enfs sacrifice lots of HP and HD, so they basically gank chars. And why ranged profs still can use 2 dmg perk lines? i.e engs can use pistol+shotgun, soldiers can use smg+shotgun+ranged energy...

    As I said i didn't like that dual melee perks, and prevent to use both is nice. But why go further? 1HB perks for example, have some 75% check perks, but we need to land 85% one first (Quick Bash), no sense.

    And what about Devastating Blow, the last perk of perkline, which is suppose to be the best one, come on look at name "devastating", how it can devastate anything with "Damage for 992 to 1983." big nerf from previous "Damage for 1775 to 3550." But anyway, who cares about dmg, u never land it on a evader profession...

    Take a look around BS, u don't see anymore melee PVPers there, besides leveling ppl doing daily missions... Ohh wait, u can see a melee profession there, KEPERS! Wonder why? Melee energy perks not locked to use perk first, keeper melee energy perks check AR vs evade (other melee perks check melee skill vs evade)... And see the at the dmg:

    Honoring the Ancients
    Target Damage for 2108 to 4685.

    Seppuku Slash
    Target Damage for 5345 to 11877. If Self % Health<=14%
    Target Damage for 4009 to 8909. If Self % Health<=50% And Self % Health>=15%
    Target Damage for 3006 to 6681. If Self % Health<=70% And Self % Health>=51%
    Target Damage for 2004 to 4454. If Self % Health>=71%

    So please, check again 1hb, 1he, 2hb and 2he "rebalance" and fix it for real. First, remove that "X-hand focus" lock, it will be a nice start.
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  2. #2
    Having had a bit of a toys/pram moment over the weekend on my advy with "You must recently have 1-Handed Edge Focus running! You must recently have 1-Handed Edge Focus running! You must recently have 1-Handed Edge Focus running!", yes please can we sort this out in a fashion that doesn't screw over all the non-enfos that got caught in the crossfire?

    Ophiuchus : 220/30/80 HAHA etc
    Nahuatl
    :: 220/30/80 Melee 4lyfe
    Khurkh :: 220/30/80 healtankpew
    Transcendence
    Msanthropic
    : 210/26/60 nanostab
    Spidershiva :: 165/23/42 kite? eh?
    Silentmotion
    : 150/20/42 tankthink
    The Union

  3. #3
    The change wasn't a good one.

    Also, with almost all profs getting a whack more healing now, it makes sense to optionally have a bigger alpha at expense of some survival.

  4. #4
    about that XXX focus - it's a nerf, since, like I said before, I can lunch alpha perks, but some recharges faster, so during alfha, either I wait till all perks go up or I will be left with 1-2 perks I can not execute for certain time because lack of Focus.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    The change wasn't a good one.

    Also, with almost all profs getting a whack more healing now, it makes sense to optionally have a bigger alpha at expense of some survival.
    The second best healer is missing the Whack... :P

    Regarding the perks; the order you where able to use perks was also part of a play style, that order of execution is now to say the least, limited. For Melee it's now, if the first perk is up an all or nothing kinda thing... Second, locking out a entire "other" perk line only to apply for Melee is also kinda unfair.

    Linking perks, one enhancing the other, perk first to use a second, have been around for a very long time. But locking all to a first perk or locking out an entire second line is kinda a bridge to far..

    Suggestion regarding these perks, Do something like we already have ingame, and apply equally for Melee and Range...
    perk is more effective if other perk abc is running, [this one has a check on the target]
    in a similar fashion;
    perk is less effective is other perk xyz is running.... [this one could have a check on self]
    Last edited by Zwelgje; Sep 2nd, 2015 at 21:26:42.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwelgje View Post
    The second best healer is missing the Whack... :P

    Regarding the perks; the order you where able to use perks was also part of a play style, that order of execution is now to say the least, limited. For Melee it's now, if the first perk is up an all or nothing kinda thing... Second, locking out a entire "other" perk line only to apply for Melee is also kinda unfair.

    Linking perks, one enhancing the other, perk first to use a second, have been around for a very long time. But locking all to a first perk or locking out an entire second line is kinda a bridge to far..

    Suggestion regarding these perks, Do something like we already have ingame, and apply equally for Melee and Range...
    perk is more effective if other perk abc is running, [this one has a check on the target]
    in a similar fashion;
    perk is less effective is other perk xyz is running.... [this one could have a check on self]
    The second best healer is the 4th best healer!

    Doc
    Zazen MA
    Agent mimic doc
    Advy

    And Advy has pretty solid healing still. depending on who your target is, and when you catch em, phoenix is healing a crapton of health.

  7. #7
    Enf would be Godmode thou, but i wouldnt complain either if u got it back, but then i would expect you to get nerfed on some other stuff.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Le-Quack View Post
    Enf would be Godmode thou, but i wouldnt complain either if u got it back, but then i would expect you to get nerfed on some other stuff.
    Enf godmode? Hows called adv mode?

    Enf wasnt godmode, in pvp advs, shades, solds, fixers or engs was way better...
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    “Two things are infinite: The Universe and Omni Solitus SB. And I'm not sure about the Universe.” (Albert L33tstein)

  9. #9
    Well if you keep your healing love with old perks back.. it would rip most people in duels.
    Just dont want enf to end upp like adv's.
    Enf is much better balanced now, what isnt balanced is that certain professions like Adv's for example should also be nerfed, and a bunch of others.
    Its so easy to give you what you ask insted of asking to nerf the others becose it seem's hopeless, but what about the other professions who is in the same boat as you?
    Last edited by Le-Quack; Sep 14th, 2015 at 16:00:47.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Le-Quack View Post
    Well if you keep your healing love with old perks back.. it would rip most people in duels.
    Just dont want enf to end upp like adv's.
    Enf is much better balanced now, what isnt balanced is that certain professions like Adv's for example should also be nerfed, and a bunch of others.
    Its so easy to give you what you ask insted of asking to nerf the others becose it seem's hopeless, but what about the other professions who is in the same boat as you?
    To be honest dont think OP profs now need a nerf, in mi opinion advs, engs, nts, mps, MAs and agents are ok, now give love to others.

    Is just a joke dmg enfs got now, before with dmg/crit setup i was near 150k/min wich is far far away from top DDers. Now I barely have 100k/min is just ridiculous. In pvp i dueled good enf few weeks ago, duel was more than 15 mins (used 3x bior)... know how long is vs top agent? (even using bior, cocoon, 5k absorb...) less than 1 minute, funny huh?

    As i said enf was ok before, only nerf we need was dual perk lines.
    Clan FTW
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    “Two things are infinite: The Universe and Omni Solitus SB. And I'm not sure about the Universe.” (Albert L33tstein)

  11. #11
    Yea, dual perklines needed a nerf, but now enfs, keepers and melee advies really strugle damage wise.

    I wish there were better harder hitting melee xan weapon variants, along gan'kar rifle lines, combining huge crits with good base damage.

    To me melee professions just scream crits... Enfo 2h blunt for example should do 10k crits, just like MA does...
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  12. #12
    I've been playing Dota 2 lately and I've learned that other game developers have really pushed the envelope when it comes to creative ways to do damage.

    There ARE more ways to do damage. Quite frankly, AO is very limited in scope when it comes to methodology.

    For example AO has many different damage types, but none of them are useful in any kind of meaningful way outside of borderline meaningless AC adjustments in PVM.

    Imagine though, for a minute that each damage type instigated different effects:

    * fire dmg stacked flames which burned the target introduced flaming on target which would obviously boost visibility of target during team PVP so you could see a target taking damage
    * cold damage put movement slows on enemy
    * poison dmg introduced small stacking DoT's on opponent
    * melee damage could proc for extra crit damage/crit chance
    * projectile damage could followthrough (i.e. hit people behind target)
    * nano damage could be "pure" damage which couldn't be reduced by any type of mitigation
    * radiation damage could cause AoE DoT damage
    * chemical damage could cause AOE acid/splash damage

    Just using this as a basis, you got basically every weapon in game becoming diverse with multitude of effects which could potentially boost complexity of play, and choosing damage type would be a strong strategic consideration for any venue you were in.

    Also, the huge drawback I've learned that AO has which is just mind bogglingly ridiculous, is that there are some profs which are unable to kill others on account of "specials" or lack thereof.

    imo, evades need a complete revamp; such as: make a rooted evade target unable to evade (i.e. 100% of attempted hits land, all melee hits crit)

    Then you won't have such ridiculousness such as fixers being unable to be killed by a keeper, or enforcer or a non swapping MA. use a root graft, and makes him actually killable for a short period. Also, the other things that AO is just ridiculous with is downtime. Once a char has been killed... it's WAY too hard to get back in the fight.

    No player wants to sit there thinking, great, now I'm in Omni trade/OA, and I need to get back to CAV to get back in the fight. Honestly, that is the most WTF retarded thing I've ever encountered in any game.

    I got only one suggestion for this: Give Doctors a rez mat. How much more obvious could it be?

    So Doctors should get a new buff, say, 120 BM/120 MM, and spammable. So a doctor buffs a toon in vicinity. the buff lasts 10 minutes (maybe add a team one too). And basically all it does is it issues a temp insurance claim on the corpse which overrides the original save location.

    Each doctor can only temp insure 5 players max, and docs should also get a re-rez buff like keepers get which has a longer cast time (say 10s) and uses a lot of nano, say 5k.

    Doc's would have strong value in mass PVP both for healing, but also as a place to retrieve the dead. Obviously, this places heightened risk on doctors, and it clearly makes them a strong choice for first kills. But now it might make more sense for them to have secondary/tertiary doctors which can insure them, such that they can enter the initial fight, then if they die another doctor has insured them who didn't enter the battle and is safe in 75%. Then when assault docs fall they rez at the secondary doc, and he derezzes them so when the other fighters fall the assault doc can de-rezz them to continue the fight more rapidly.

    This introduces strong continuous/support logic which is part of what is missing from AO, and removes the stupidly clunky "I need to leave team for fgrid", "I need to get back to PW 13 minutes later to see if my side is still fighting", "can some engineer who isn't in the middle of an awesome team fight warp me" type crap that has been a hallmark of the absurdity of AO's tower wars system for years.

  13. #13
    There are several ideas going here.

    Removing focus lock from perklines:
    That's legit.

    Enfos getting dual perklines back:
    Gooby pls. Enfos don't need +10k on-demand alpha damage.

    Enfos getting more pvm damage:
    Sure why not? Agent damage/weapon shouldn't be a reference though. They were trash-tier PvM before the patch and now they have a role. Enfos have a role anyway. Maybe higher min on weapons.

    Enfo vs Agent is fast regardless who wins, so I'm not sure that really illustrates anything. We've had some good matchups on BS that could have gone either way.
    In terms of boosting enfo, I'd personally go for faster execute on stuns. Hard to lock someone out with them.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by srompu View Post
    There are several ideas going here.

    Removing focus lock from perklines:
    That's legit.

    Enfos getting dual perklines back:
    Gooby pls. Enfos don't need +10k on-demand alpha damage.

    Enfos getting more pvm damage:
    Sure why not? Agent damage/weapon shouldn't be a reference though. They were trash-tier PvM before the patch and now they have a role. Enfos have a role anyway. Maybe higher min on weapons.

    Enfo vs Agent is fast regardless who wins, so I'm not sure that really illustrates anything. We've had some good matchups on BS that could have gone either way.
    In terms of boosting enfo, I'd personally go for faster execute on stuns. Hard to lock someone out with them.
    Would love to see more 2handed perks that deal huge (10-20k) dmg with low checks but longer cast times 2-3s. Or do something like they did with MAs. For example, perks would hit double dmg and have lower checks
    when enfs don't have their HP buffs so they are weaker if they want to go ganking. That way they wouldnt have strong alpha + 60k hp with OP healing. But 2handed definitely needs more love and that focus stuff is kinda annoying
    with 1handed. If nothing else add some procs to their weapons

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Paavalniemi View Post
    Would love to see more 2handed perks that deal huge (10-20k) dmg with low checks but longer cast times 2-3s. Or do something like they did with MAs. For example, perks would hit double dmg and have lower checks
    when enfs don't have their HP buffs so they are weaker if they want to go ganking. That way they wouldnt have strong alpha + 60k hp with OP healing. But 2handed definitely needs more love and that focus stuff is kinda annoying
    with 1handed. If nothing else add some procs to their weapons
    2h.edged and blunt always been a joke. ranged had so much better love compared to mele professions except from shades wich i find weird and unfair since mele is mele and they ned to perform close combat and ranged can kite mele and thats a huge disadvantage on top of that ranged profession has better dmg/perk

  16. #16
    2he and 2hb weapons really need a buff... And melee energy on keeper is pretty inferior to 2he. Both terriblly poor dd choices.

    These melee perklines should be very strong hiting fast recharging, each aditional harder to land but more damage.

    2hb should hit like a truck. No problem if enfo hits something for 20k once per minute. Or keeper.. Or anyone else uses 2handed weapons?
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by srompu View Post
    There are several ideas going here.

    Removing focus lock from perklines:
    That's legit.

    Enfos getting dual perklines back:
    Gooby pls. Enfos don't need +10k on-demand alpha damage.

    Enfos getting more pvm damage:
    Sure why not? Agent damage/weapon shouldn't be a reference though. They were trash-tier PvM before the patch and now they have a role. Enfos have a role anyway. Maybe higher min on weapons.
    Remove weapon focus and give "Devastating Blow" the previous dmg, that should be enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Le-Quack View Post
    2h.edged and blunt always been a joke. ranged had so much better love compared to mele professions except from shades wich i find weird and unfair since mele is mele and they ned to perform close combat and ranged can kite mele and thats a huge disadvantage on top of that ranged profession has better dmg/perk
    Thats not true, 2he was great for years, before they nerfed SnD, i alpha to die many ppl just with 2he perks without AS/SA before.
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    “Two things are infinite: The Universe and Omni Solitus SB. And I'm not sure about the Universe.” (Albert L33tstein)

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    2he and 2hb weapons really need a buff... And melee energy on keeper is pretty inferior to 2he. Both terriblly poor dd choices.

    These melee perklines should be very strong hiting fast recharging, each aditional harder to land but more damage.

    2hb should hit like a truck. No problem if enfo hits something for 20k once per minute. Or keeper.. Or anyone else uses 2handed weapons?
    mele energy works ok for keepers, but the wep suck when it comes to regualr dmg, thou it be cool to see 2 handed mele energy weapons that cant be dual wielded with more dmg.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Forz View Post
    Remove weapon focus and give "Devastating Blow" the previous dmg, that should be enough.



    Thats not true, 2he was great for years, before they nerfed SnD, i alpha to die many ppl just with 2he perks without AS/SA before.
    hehe thats why u always were 1h on enf?
    your 2h period wasnt realy long after 1h.edged were intreduced with Xan expansion.
    you gotta follow the expansions and 2h.edged is not good after xan came out.
    allot of things were freaking awesome before any expansion came out wich now suck.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Forz View Post
    Thats not true, 2he was great for years, before they nerfed SnD, i alpha to die many ppl just with 2he perks without AS/SA before.

    Not so much the relatively minor nerf, as everyone just getting way more hp and def. They'd need to triple the current damage for SnD to be as dangerous as it was back in 2004. And they should. I miss keepers and 2he enfs being uber (tho a lot of that's probably just nostalgia talking).


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