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Thread: Agents too OP atm?

  1. #141
    I have been perked through 4787 def on multiple occasions by an opi agent right out of sneak. I know it's possible on paper, and it's possible in "real life" because it's happened to me. Yeah it was probably an AR built agent, but nonetheless it is possible and that fact is absurd and broken.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountaingoat View Post
    I have been perked through 4787 def on multiple occasions by an opi agent right out of sneak. I know it's possible on paper, and it's possible in "real life" because it's happened to me. Yeah it was probably an AR built agent, but nonetheless it is possible and that fact is absurd and broken.
    90% Def Check = 4308 - Bullseye = 3958...left of your defense. As i sad, its the 90% Def Check (ignoring 478 Def) from your defense.
    Carolus Hekthor Priamos - Advisor of S.I.N.C

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Allure View Post
    90% Def Check = 4308 - Bullseye = 3958...left of your defense. As i sad, its the 90% Def Check (ignoring 478 Def) from your defense.
    That 90% def check would be on dodge range, and not on the entire value of your defence rating. So closer to between 160~350 depending on the target.
    But it is still pretty ridiculous.

    220s "Wakizaka", "Sneakygank", "Wakimango", "Wakisolja", "Tardersauce", "Bushwaki", "Midgetgank", "Bugfixxx", "Ramsbottom", "Paskadoc"
    200s Chrisd, Malema, Delbaeth
    TL5s Youfail, Bugfixx, Riothamus, Johndee

    Proud President of Haven | TL5 PvP


  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Allure View Post
    Wtf are you have a idea what you are talking about? 4300-5000 AR 100% not. stop talking bull****. With a basic AR from 3300 and 500 AAO you have 3800 AR. It feels like 5000 AR because 99% of ppl doing BS are GIMPS frum hell with no knowladge about PvP. There is a bit more than equip a CSS set and slander what noobs are crying about.

    Again its not the Offensce Check, its the Defense Check. And if you try talking about AR-Checked Perks keep in mind Keeper have the same AR checked Perks.
    It's an utter fallacy to use other players gear quality/game knowledge (or lack thereof) as an argument for agents "not being OP".
    It's an ad hominem attack and it's got literally nothing to do with anything.
    Regardless of people's knowledge of the game, the problem of agents being OP exists and the result is that people just don't play bs anymore.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Wakizaka View Post
    That 90% def check would be on dodge range, and not on the entire value of your defence rating. So closer to between 160~350 depending on the target.
    But it is still pretty ridiculous.
    Wrong...and this is what i mean with knowledge about game mechanic's. Your add all defense is added to your dodge and 90% check means (dodge+aad)*0.9 if you don't believe it try it. I tested it with alien Perks and agent 90% check Perks. Both attack on 100% AR but agent Perks with 90% def check.

    Srly michizure sad "Balance soon after The Reck".
    I think it's his job to think about this we wrote tons of suggestions...and i don't say that agent isn't OP. Me want also a AR-Check nerf on Agent SL perks. Back to100% rifle and only some CC Perks like stun and snare with 100% AR

    My Suggestion is to let (Concussive Shot/Fade Armor/Tranquilizer/Soften Up) as it is with 100% AR check for CC.
    Rework all other Perks to 100% Weapon skill and 80% defese Check like Advy/Engie/Doc Pistol Perks.

    Same for Keeper...
    Last edited by Allure; May 20th, 2016 at 14:41:45.
    Carolus Hekthor Priamos - Advisor of S.I.N.C

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Allure View Post
    Wrong...and this is what i mean with knowledge about game mechanic's. Your add all defense is added to your dodge and 90% check means (dodge+aad)*0.9 if you don't believe it try it. I tested it with alien Perks and agent 90% check Perks. Both attack on 100% AR but agent Perks with 90% def check.
    Nope.
    Let's take Pinpoint Strike.
    It is 100% Attack Rating vs 90% Dodge Range.
    The Attack Rating calculation is Main-Hand weapon skill + AAO + AAO.
    The Defence Rating calculation is 0.9*Dodge Range skill + AAD.

    220s "Wakizaka", "Sneakygank", "Wakimango", "Wakisolja", "Tardersauce", "Bushwaki", "Midgetgank", "Bugfixxx", "Ramsbottom", "Paskadoc"
    200s Chrisd, Malema, Delbaeth
    TL5s Youfail, Bugfixx, Riothamus, Johndee

    Proud President of Haven | TL5 PvP


  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Wakizaka View Post
    Nope.
    Let's take Pinpoint Strike.
    It is 100% Attack Rating vs 90% Dodge Range.
    The Attack Rating calculation is Main-Hand weapon skill + AAO + AAO.
    The Defence Rating calculation is 0.9*Dodge Range skill + AAD.
    Do you have a official proof for it? I have a other opinion...Whatever...

    My Suggestion is to let (Concussive Shot/Fade Armor/Tranquilizer/Soften Up) as it is with 100% AR check for CC.
    Rework all other Perks to 100% Weapon skill and 80% defese Check like Advy/Engie/Doc Pistol Perks.

    Same for Keeper...

    I Dont think its a problem if cc Perks have a high AR but you are right on huge dmg perks
    Carolus Hekthor Priamos - Advisor of S.I.N.C

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountaingoat View Post
    So it's ok for agents to have 20k+ near instant alphas from sneak with 4300-5000 AR (no MR) while the target is stunned. I've basically stopped playing solely because of agents. It's just not fun anymore.
    Check this out, Goats:

    Sleekyz says agents can alpha engis, then asks for lower perk AR.
    I tease him for suggesting a tweak that doesn't fix his problem.
    You see "I think agents should instakill everything so that Goats suffers until he quits."
    Now that does sound like something I'd say, but let's work with the facts.


    Hek, for what it's worth, Waki is right about the mechanics. You need the target's dodge/AAD before you can compare perk AR. Your effective perk AR is lower than you thought, I guess.
    This mechanic does mean you can easily tweak perk AR against different profs, so your idea is in the right direction.
    Last edited by srompu; May 20th, 2016 at 18:48:10.

  9. #149
    Agent is a joke atm - press 3-4 Perks an Aimed Shot and nearly every profession is dead... *irony on*what a skilled Profession!*irony off* I think the perk damage should be nerfed by 50% but on all professions and we need a better def-check!!!!! i want fights not alphas!!!! thats lame!!!!!.... And yes i got an Agent too... but it sucks that no one have a chance against an Agent (for the first time it makes fun...)... The PvP System is one of the worst thing in AO... i want to fight 1 or 2 min against a player not 3 seconds... You can play Counter strike instead of AO... thats the same **** atm...
    Last edited by killu; May 22nd, 2016 at 10:36:26.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by killu View Post
    Agent is a joke atm - press 3-4 Perks an Aimed Shot and nearly every profession is dead... *irony on*what a skilled Profession!*irony off* I think the perk damage should be nerfed by 50% but on all professions and we need a better def-check!!!!! i want fights not alphas!!!! thats lame!!!!!.... And yes i got an Agent too... but it sucks that no one have a chance against an Agent (for the first time it makes fun...)... The PvP System is one of the worst thing in AO... i want to fight 1 or 2 min against a player not 3 seconds... You can play Counter strike instead of AO... thats the same **** atm...
    If you play against real PvPer (I mean nearly max twinked and know how to pvp), the fights isnt like 3 seconds. Only against low HP evaders who are able to Perk because of the OP AR check... FunCom needs more than a year to adjust this. Do you realy think they will insert a so massive change?
    Better def check...They should general change Defensice/Offensice skills like Limer/DoF/CH/Bio Coocoon/ES and the like to a percentage value in dependence of your current skill value.

    For example Dance of Fools and Limber. 1000 Evades with a lvl of 205 have a higher vale as with 220... The skill scaling is broken like hell imo. Nominal values are a main reason for the imbalances, look at Crat they wont be perkable if their def aura would add a percentage amount of AAD based on your currend. AO would be easy to balance if most skills would be based on this. Bio Coccoon also..i man Enforcer have around 60K HP...and a 10k Absorb like Advy. 10k Absorb at 30 Hp its a bit strongter as with 60K HP. If Bio Cocoon would be a percentage value in dependece of you MaxHealth it would be better for Enforcer. Different values for Advy,Keeper and the like and with a bit Testlive practice its easy to find out how it works.

    In addition to this, you need to lower the CAP Hits, 30% with one AS/FA/Garruk and the like is way to strong..25% or 20% would make it also.
    I think a other nice solution to improve PvP in gerneral is to change the ArmorClassed a bit. Today they are capped at 10.000 AC - I think it will be interessting if it would be possible to reduce PvP dmg over the 10k Cap and INCLDUDING NANO DMG.
    Carolus Hekthor Priamos - Advisor of S.I.N.C

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Vinkera View Post
    Something I've been wondering is, when agent is nerfed, who will be able to stop MP's?

    I'm no agent expert, but I believe even they have to beef up AR quite a bit to take shield MP's down. At least from NT's perspective, MP's disgustingly OP, but no one seems to mention it much, and I know NT's aren't the only ones struggling vs MP's.

    Agents certainly need a bit of adjusting, but they'll be quickly replaced by another prof.
    I hope you understand the irony of your post. What you are saying is correct but also quite funny, since the two main one-button professions right now are the agent and NT. MP doesnt get as much spotlight because not a lot of players have rolled them yet. When agents are nerfed BS will be full of NTs. End.
    And when NTs are nerfed, BS will be full of keepers and MPs.
    Testicol.
    QIQUAN 220/30/70 DPS MA SUGUTOHTER 220/30/65 PVM DOC
    HAVOCK 220/30/70 TNK ENF ETC
    ASJAPULK 220/30/70 PVP CRT RED TIGERS. ORG

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Qiquan View Post
    And when NTs are nerfed, BS will be full of keepers and MPs.
    If you mention keeper i hope it's just because they look cool, keepers are defInatly not Op in my opinion.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Qiquan View Post
    I hope you understand the irony of your post. What you are saying is correct but also quite funny, since the two main one-button professions right now are the agent and NT. MP doesnt get as much spotlight because not a lot of players have rolled them yet. When agents are nerfed BS will be full of NTs. End.
    And when NTs are nerfed, BS will be full of keepers and MPs.
    MP and Agent can be made at pretty much any level with great success.

    NT's are crap at a lot of level ranges and vs a lot of professions throughout. Even if BS fills up with them, that's fine. I've never felt particularly threatened myself vs NT's recently when on another prof.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  14. #154
    I am not a great Pvper...

    But on agent m m m. I get kills in BS, I get kills on tower raid... Well cannot claim kills in tara (clans dont come) or duels(I dont come).

    In my weekend warrior sense agent is allright. Excellent attack skill, awesome perking. I know if my target isnt 100% ready or somehow OP(as in doc, or soldier or advy with CH ready). I get a kill.

    Problem isnt Agent, I like that part.. Problem is overall survivability and defenses in AO.

    Everything is so fast and furious... So hit and miss. You are either unkillable or die allover the place.

    Agent just kills stuff to fast and easy... But the problem really is, stuff dies to fast unless it has infinite hp or high evades.

    Damage should be more progressive.

    For starters perks should do 1/3rd of damage on miss. Same for specials 1 Bullet of burst or FA should always. hit.

    There should be no 0 or 100% damage.

    That is the problem with OP agents. Agents right now deliver 100% damage in situations where regular profs deal 0 damage. But if those did 50% damage in same situation, we wouldnt have this discussion at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    For starters perks should do 1/3rd of damage on miss.
    Lol, are you upset that you can't alpha Fixers when they have DoF+Limber+ES up ? ;(

    220s "Wakizaka", "Sneakygank", "Wakimango", "Wakisolja", "Tardersauce", "Bushwaki", "Midgetgank", "Bugfixxx", "Ramsbottom", "Paskadoc"
    200s Chrisd, Malema, Delbaeth
    TL5s Youfail, Bugfixx, Riothamus, Johndee

    Proud President of Haven | TL5 PvP


  16. #156
    1. I deleted all my agents many years ago and sworn not to roll 1 again because agents are too OP and any idiot without skill or experience can alpha almost any profession (especially if agent sneaks and wait for opponent to start capping).
    2. I stopped pvping on level 220 because there is not much fun especially as majority of fights is zerg vs zerg and there are just too many attacks incoming at the same time.
    3. For me level 150-200 is the only level range where there is still some fun and skill involved but even there there is 1 major problem with fight mechanics:

    KEY BINDING and executing too many attacks at the same time!
    Agents benefits most from this situation because 99% of the time thez start attacking from sneak and their first attack i usually "alpha" with all/most of their special attacks and perks bined to 1 key.
    So for example when agent attack anybody they always start first (because they are sneaking) and they stack up some special attacks and perks.
    When defending character uses DoF, limber, cocoon, NS2 or whatever other special defense it does not count for initial agent alpha because all alpha attacks have been triggered before they activated defense.

    The only way to make fights more fair and fun is either to cancel possibility of binding (stacking up) more than 1 attack/perk or to change mechanics how server solves hit/miss calculation and dammage in such a way that even if several attacks are triggered at the same server checks their hit / miss and damage result with "1 second delay ticks".

    If attacked character uses for example DoF , cocoon or NS then the remaining "stacked up" perks and special attacks checks against those devensive mechanics instead of landing on a "naked character" because they were triggered first.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Awikun View Post
    If attacked character uses for example DoF , cocoon or NS then the remaining "stacked up" perks and special attacks checks against those devensive mechanics instead of landing on a "naked character" because they were triggered first.
    Absorbs still get used if they are activated during the "alpha".
    The defence check however is never updated because it is calculated at trigger time and not execution start and/or end of a perk.

    It's something I've asked for, for a decade, that perk execution has 2 defence check steps, one at start of the execution timer, and one at the end.
    The benefit of a system like that, is that it penalises face-rolling because you're still locked in your perk alpha with no way to start executing defensive perks or using stims.

    220s "Wakizaka", "Sneakygank", "Wakimango", "Wakisolja", "Tardersauce", "Bushwaki", "Midgetgank", "Bugfixxx", "Ramsbottom", "Paskadoc"
    200s Chrisd, Malema, Delbaeth
    TL5s Youfail, Bugfixx, Riothamus, Johndee

    Proud President of Haven | TL5 PvP


  18. #158
    On my 170 agent i bound all perks to capslock and if i can tab something i hit as+capslock and go afk. I dont think there is anything OP about it. Only interesting fight is from some other agents or couple skilled players. I think I had a BS round the other day when there was about 6 agents in there total.
    Testicol.
    QIQUAN 220/30/70 DPS MA SUGUTOHTER 220/30/65 PVM DOC
    HAVOCK 220/30/70 TNK ENF ETC
    ASJAPULK 220/30/70 PVP CRT RED TIGERS. ORG

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Qiquan View Post
    On my 170 agent i bound all perks to capslock and if i can tab something i hit as+capslock and go afk. I dont think there is anything OP about it. Only interesting fight is from some other agents or couple skilled players. I think I had a BS round the other day when there was about 6 agents in there total.
    It feels OP because 99% of ppl doing BS are GIMPS frum hell with no knowladge about PvP. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Winning View Post
    It feels OP because 99% of ppl doing BS are GIMPS frum hell with no knowladge about PvP. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
    And 99% of ppl playing Agents are morons with no skill or twinking knowledge except how to bind all my special attacks and perks to 1 key

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