How to make leveling the old way bether than sitting on kite hill.

[Anonimofied]

Funcom should move SL to RK

[Lazy]

Funcom should move SL to RK

funcom should replace scheol and pen with RK

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I really like levelling.

I get to do it so infrequently that when the opportunity arises, I actually really enjoy it for a while. There area few problems though, that we're all aware of, but I'll just add in my two cents.

The first and most obvious problem is that it's just too damn difficult logistically. Considering all of the processes needed to level in a way that's fun:

1. get to a level where you can survive errant aggro in TOTW/SoM - this is sometimes painful
2. get an alt/orgmate to pull you thru collecting a bunch of crap that you're only going to use for a day or two - this is annoying
3. realize you forgot to buy a beacon /terminate (end up in nasc) - this is annoying
4. run all the effing way back to RK - this is painful
5. log half your alt stable looking for poly pillows, an agent for FG/SFA and an NT for NS, then realize you don't have NCU for any of those, look at research and realize you didn't research 4NCU - this is painful
6. realize you don't have any cash to buy implants/3 slot belt, log another alt with some credits transfer some
7. realize there are no pre-made CL implants - start swearing at FC, start logging toons again to find that set of 50/70/90 CL imps, ohya, better get the agi/treat ones too
8. realize you don't have a medsuit yet - more pain
9. can't find a full medsuit, ohya, better get some shades of lucubration and some docaholic rings, oh and XP rings while we're at it
10. realize you didn't roll NM, ah screw it.
11. get a decent belt equipped, get some implants in, realize you haven't bought any nanos yet, run to the nao shop, load up on all the nanos they have, FFS they dont' have the lowbie dyna ones which are the only one you need at this moment - more swearing
12. finally stick on a noob-rod after hunting around for a trader and a brutal thug - feelsgoodman
13. Feel STRONK wtb some mobs so I can bash it! - still feelsgoodman.
14. ok gotta run ALL THE FRIGGIGN WAY to nasc crip cave?! my god, who designed this crap - epic annoyance
15. get to crip cave, realize you didn't buy stims or kits - !%#@%^^@#!
16. log a 220 alt with fast RS to get you some stims
17. finally start killing - level 21 - level 30 in <15 minutes
18. go to crip dungeon ding up some more, level 40
19. go to higher crip dungeon, ding up some more, level 45
20. time for hecks, ye can do it without gear upgrade.. screw it I'll just get an NT ding up 60 - hum, that went fast, levelling isn't so bad!
21. ding 61 (swearing commences, possible reroll), or remember to get the rest of the crap you were missing from TOTW - meh/whatever, 2 more hours of running around from place to place and getting more irritated than ever at the distance you need to travel.. whatever, this twink will be worth it.
22. retwink at 60 for 61-100 run. but what weapon should I use? rummage for some spare CM armor because screw this, that's why
23. finally find a few spare pieces and get on a decent weapon and some 130ish imps, so frigging tired of new toons now
24. Next, gotta get out to BFE, because tiigs, wat - logistics again, losing my mind
25. Nobody on LFT for tiigs, nobody wants tiigs, wat tiigs are funnnn man! Come on, I'll tank
26. no team mates, ever. log an MP, learn to tank a tiig with a heal ball, OK not so hard, except confidence isn't your friend here. chain death MOFO, back to TIR!
27. logistics again. RS on lowbies makes me want to scream. Decide this will be the last toon I ever roll.
28. finally get a team for tiigs, ding up to 100 in 2 hours
29. regear for hecks? not on your life. Well, implant some QL 186 XP imps, and do some token board upgrades for XP, yes, screw this.
30. Park at kite hill. I HAVE 220's. I can't be bothered to raise my howlet vs a heck. - so ya levelling, screw it.

The problem might not be obvious, but the real problem is gear acquisition, the insanity logisitics of running from some stupid remote desert to RK shops to gear up, logging a hundred alts to find crap, then trying to travel all the way out to west Ely just to bash mobs for 2 hours is mind bogglingly stupid.

The problem isn't actually the content, the content is GREAT. I love taking 600-1200 health off a tiig in one hit using a big weapon. That part is fun. it's all the rest of it that doesn't make a damn bit of sense.

In my list, if you look at it, probably 4 hours are spent whacking mobs, and 20 hours are spent finding stuff, running back and forth, and trying to get into/get gear that you need for standard, levelling content.

If you want to make levelling fun, make "luxurious armor" "standard issue" and add a weapon that levels along with you that will allow any person levelling to STAY at the place where the mobs are, so the logistics of regearing every 10-20 levels isn't so burdensome. Also, eliminate like 50% of the nanos from the database, and make 10% new nanos that function like the keeper ambient healing/nano heals. (higher skill --> higher heal), that reduces repetition and keeps the game simpler and cleaner.

[Tsuniko]

they need to do the xp increase for all the existing RK dungeons like they did with totw.

[PigBrother]

... and add a weapon that levels along with you that will allow any person levelling to STAY at the place where the mobs are

... or go forward where the level and quest line guide you. Or you can improve your weapon with some of the rewards you get from quests ...

That will be a huge improvement...

[Gimpynoob]

I really like levelling.

I get to do it so infrequently that when the opportunity arises, I actually really enjoy it for a while. There area few problems though, that we're all aware of, but I'll just add in my two cents.

...
6. realize you don't have any cash to buy implants/3 slot belt, log another alt with some credits transfer some
...

And when you think that a new player will have to spend more time farming creds doing mind numbing content to achieve point 6 then it takes for you to level to endgame, you may understand AO's popularity.

[DigitalBath]

So.. just to gauge how you guys feel about it..

Having a more linear, more directed option for progression, similar to WoW's questing system (hubs that direct you to other hubs from level 1 to whatever the max is there now), an alternative pvm path via instanced dungeons, starting at level 13-15 or whatever up to the max level and a third path, done by instanced pvp battlegrounds.. is something you guys would welcome in AO now?
All of these avenues should also bring you level-appropriate gear that allows for stable progression, of course.

Just checking since I've heard people demonize WoW's rollercoaster experience but seems that trend is dying as scarce population makes grindy leveling very, very unappealing (gone are the days of spending an afternoon/evening laughing on voice comms with your friends as you pummelled ado hecks over and over again..).

[Gimpynoob]

AO doesn't need to follow WoW's progression system. Don't get me wrong. There is nothing wrong with WoW's gameplay design in general. Only that it is not necessary for all MMORPG games to follow the same formula. There is place in the market for many different gameplay designs, me thinks. Whichever AO follows it must be consistent and entertaining. Long, boring and unrewarding grinds should be avoided. If there must be a grind make it interesting. Grinding solo or in a team are both good design options if it is rewarding and varied. It is less boring and annoying to farm 100 different items in 10 different playfields and finding one piece a day to make top gear then it is to make that gear have a 0,01% drop chance from a grey mob that can be farmed with a finished main toon. Decent leveling gear should never require grinding or even worst, grinding for credits. Making good leveling gear available only for real money is killing this game. Pretending to make it available via normal gameplay but hiding it under a huge grind is pure scam. Imps should cost 10% of what they cost. Miy's armor would be good leveling gear if it was redesigned to have the stats and requirements at ql 200 that it has at ql 300. OFAB weapons would be good for leveling toons if the upgrades were easily available through gameplay. But FC prefers to sell GRACE to a few people than to have a decent playerbase.

[DigitalBath]

AO doesn't need to follow WoW's progression system. Don't get me wrong. There is nothing wrong with WoW's gameplay design in general. Only that it is not necessary for all MMORPG games to follow the same formula. There is place in the market for many different gameplay designs, me thinks. Whichever AO follows it must be consistent and entertaining. Long, boring and unrewarding grinds should be avoided. If there must be a grind make it interesting. Grinding solo or in a team are both good design options if it is rewarding and varied. It is less boring and annoying to farm 100 different items in 10 different playfields and finding one piece a day to make top gear then it is to make that gear have a 0,01% drop chance from a grey mob that can be farmed with a finished main toon. Decent leveling gear should never require grinding or even worst, grinding for credits. Making good leveling gear available only for real money is killing this game. Pretending to make it available via normal gameplay but hiding it under a huge grind is pure scam. Imps should cost 10% of what they cost. Miy's armor would be good leveling gear if it was redesigned to have the stats and requirements at ql 200 that it has at ql 300. OFAB weapons would be good for leveling toons if the upgrades were easily available through gameplay. But FC prefers to sell GRACE to a few people than to have a decent playerbase.

I'll disagree on the "requiring real money" bit HEAVILY. Using myself as an example.. I never paid for creds in any way (GRACE or otherwise).
I have several endgame (i'd say those are 95% complete.. some others at 80%, too!) geared toons. I did acquire the stuff by farming myself in the majority of slots, including AI armor (a few sets of CM, CSS, CC and CS, ql295-300..).. and some by selling things I already had/didn't want and buying what I did want.
The remaining 5% is PoH stuff that I didn't have time to farm yet. I used DB/OFAB to fill the slots initially and be good enough in teams, then moved to AI armor for those that were worth the switch. Farming OFAB and DB armor is cake even without massively awesome gear (doc+soldier recommended for the latter).
Granted, I might be the minority, but imho the good gear is, for the most part, farmable with patience and a group of friends to talk to in voice comms.

The rest I agree with. I didn't say we need to have a WoW-like progression, mind you.. But that seems to be part of what people are asking for here so I thought I'd ask to see how far opinions have changed over time.

[Gimpynoob]

You disagree with the requiring money part because you are not a new player.

With the XP boost done some years ago without any adjustment to gear acquisition a new player only has 4 options. Buy credits and then gear, level with dailies and be horribly gimped, spend most of the time level locked farming credits, and the most popular... option 4.

[DigitalBath]

You disagree with the requiring money part because you are not a new player.

With the XP boost done some years ago without any adjustment to gear acquisition a new player only has 4 options. Buy credits and then gear, level with dailies and be horribly gimped, spend most of the time level locked farming credits, and the most popular... option 4.

If said new player *wants* to do things alone then sure, option 4 seems to be most likely due to his/her own self-imposed limitation..

If the new player gets in an active'ish org, of which there's still a few.. and looks for proper avenues of doing things (farming ofab can be done by anyone with a couple braincells in BS, dailies help too) + some DB pieces that are both easy (most orgs I'm connected to will help you farm that any time..) and CHEAP (even cash from cut pearls while doing inf missions might be enough to get a full set if you don't want to bug your org mates..).. and then uses those as a stepping stone.
Same goes for symbs.. betas are generally cheap and are easy to equip on most 216+ toons with proper AI levels and research. At 220 they're almost something you just pop in.
You're left wanting for weapons.. which you can again get through OFAB until you join some org / public raids for beast and 12m (for the WU).

Farming AI armor is extremely easy if you have heals on your toolset but tedious work if done alone. Can be very rewarding with some luck, too. (I don't include the crafting part as a difficulty because if the player doesn't have a tradeskiller in org and can't be bothered to look in OA/Bor for one that'll do it for a tiny fee.. the player's the problem).

I guess I just am not lazy enough to go for option 4?

Some timezones may not have many players left, though. That's the sad part and where I concede that option 4 becomes the only option for.

[Gimpynoob]

We are not talking about the same thing. The problem with player retention starts at the beginning. While most players who try AO will leave immediately because of its dated appearance and gameplay, the few that could be retained are lost shortly after they leave the starter area. By the time a noob reaches ToTW his/her toon will be dated and it will be impossible to progress by itself and teams are almost impossible to find outside the "express lane to 220". Before TL4 a new player will have to choose one of the options I pointed out. With very little playtime and no emotional investment in the game option 4 is a very sensible choice.

[DigitalBath]

We are not talking about the same thing. The problem with player retention starts at the beginning. While most players who try AO will leave immediately because of its dated appearance and gameplay, the few that could be retained are lost shortly after they leave the starter area. By the time a noob reaches ToTW his/her toon will be dated and it will be impossible to progress by itself and teams are almost impossible to find outside the "express lane to 220". Before TL4 a new player will have to choose one of the options I pointed out. With very little playtime and no emotional investment in the game option 4 is a very sensible choice.

That I can definitely agree too. The gear and levelling progression in the game don't match and it can get extremely frustrating.

[Saetos]

You're trying to appeal a logical side to a company whose idea of good weapon drops was a TL4 dagger put 0.5% of the time onto the loot table of a level 195 boss in the very annals of Adonis Abyss.

Not only does gear and leveling progression not match but it hasn't even begun to accomodate for the ever-lowering threshold where players go to leveling spots.

[drainbamage]

So.. just to gauge how you guys feel about it..

Having a more linear, more directed option for progression, similar to WoW's questing system (hubs that direct you to other hubs from level 1 to whatever the max is there now), an alternative pvm path via instanced dungeons, starting at level 13-15 or whatever up to the max level and a third path, done by instanced pvp battlegrounds.. is something you guys would welcome in AO now?
All of these avenues should also bring you level-appropriate gear that allows for stable progression, of course.

I was always in favour of this. Grinding and farming are two things that are never good as far as I'm concerned.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I think it's been said before, but if you actually make half decent weapons drop off the mobs people kill to make levels... then you can actually stay in the place you're levelling for a pretty reasonable amount of time.

[PigBrother]

That I can definitely agree too. The gear and levelling progression in the game don't match and it can get extremely frustrating.

This is the biggest problem.This is why people preffer to stay on that hill (wich I personally enjoy a lot - as OST, as NT, as leecher).

Off-topic | Regarding the farming - take my advice : farm what YOU can - sell - buy what you can't farm. Selling and buying is good - makes the creds circle around and makes people happy. You can ofc farm everything with friends, in public teams or by yourself, but takes time and patience... I farmed GA4 for myself as a froob God damn it

[Lheann]

So I disagree that getting started is that hard. The new starter area provides leveling armor, AI weapons (minus being typed) and a 3 slot belt and most of the basic nano's you will use the rest of the game. With just a little farming a you can leave the area with a 25K credits, level 10 implants, leveling armor, shoulder pads(sided) a decent weapon for level 12-15. Hit the new ICC and then into the subway for some new weapons and vagabond cloak. To SL for the bracer and then kill the crap out of the low level Nasc bosses for pattern pieces. Also run the level 22 SL static by the spirits for nano/health coils and pearls. Sell stuff as you fill up your backpacks and inventory. If you reach level 25 less than 500K then you did something very wrong. Do the Nasc key quest and hit crip cave for level 30 while keeping up the boss killing for pattern pieces. Also the level 22 static I mention is great place to knock research 1 and 2. Just saying what people think is fastest really is not. Key example is that many vets don't even know where the level 22 static I am talking about actually is and yet its placement and loot table screams that it was meant to provide lots of credits for lowbies.

Seriously I start new characters this way and have 1 to 1.5 million credits by level 30 is easy. Add in daily missions for VP to get OFAB and some LE missions (just ask for a team to pull them) you will have a typed OFAB weapon and armor to augment your newbie leveling armor. I really had no need to buy a good weapon off of GMS until level 50 on any class. By then I had decent implants, ncu, nano's and was having fun. I am never in a rush to play the zones and yet by playing the game and not being driven to twink like a mad man I found I got to a certain level faster.

The problem is not that it is hard to get stuff it is the problem that people feel they have to rush to end game to start playing the game. There is so much to do sub 60 that doing it all on one toon is hard work before you out level the content. With free froob account you can start a lowbie buffing toon or two. Really subway and even totw is so much easier if you have even the small fixer long hot on you and the small enforcer hp buff.

I would say that people that think the starting out is hard are not looking at the game offers and instead is looking for the perceived fastest path to level up.

[Gimpynoob]

Just out of curiosity.


How many are "some LE missions" to get your OFAB weapon typed?

[Eedesti]

So I disagree that getting started is that hard.
.......
Key example is that many vets don't even know where the level 22 static I am talking about actually is and yet its placement and loot table screams that it was meant to provide lots of credits for lowbies.

Those to statements are confilcting. How can a new player know of this magical place if most veterans doesn't. This is a big part of the problem, AO just drops you in a gigantic world, with very little directions. Run speed is so slow that you you cant realy explore everything. I remember the first time i headed to TOTW, found it on the map and started running across the zones. Was quite far when i complained in org chat and someone told me about these magical things called whom-pahs and grid. Yes AO has become better at directing the traffic, but how do you expect new players to find these alien missions and statics, when the game doesn't even hint of it?