Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Perks designed to snare but actually root.

  1. #1

    Perks designed to snare but actually root.

    Agent specific

    There are currently 4 perks that I know of (3 from the agent perk line and 1 from the trader perk line) which are designed to snare but actually root instead and then I have a followup for removal

    The Shot: The effect of this special is a huge direct damage, and target initiatives debuff.
    Duration 20 Seconds Recharge 75 seconds.
    Self Modify Ranged. Init. -500
    Self Modify NanoC. Init. -500
    Self Modify Run Speed -500

    Tranquilizer: The effect of this Special is a low direct damage, snare, and it will lower the targets combat abilities
    Duration 25 Seconds Recharge, 60 seconds.
    Target Modify Run Speed -1200
    Target Modify Ranged. Init. -1400

    Soften Up: The effect of this Special is a snare and AC debuff
    Duration, 20 seconds. Recharge, 2 minutes
    User At level 200: Modify Run Speed -600
    User At level 200: Modify Melee/ma AC -4000
    User At level 200: Modify Energy AC -4000
    User At level 200: Modify Imp/Proj AC -4000
    User At level 200: Modify Fire AC -4000
    User At level 200: Modify Cold AC -4000
    User At level 200: Modify Chemical AC -4000
    User At level 200: Modify Disease AC -4000
    User At level 200: Modify Radiation AC -4000

    Total time - 1:05 min root

    Trader specific
    Leg Shot: The effect of this Special is a direct damage and damage over time
    Duration, 30 seconds Recharge, 48 seconds

    Without Bloodletting
    User Damage for 60.
    User Modify Run Speed -600
    User Damage for 60. 15 times, once every 2.00s

    With Bloodletting
    User Modify Run Speed -1000
    User Damage for 120.
    User Damage for 120. 15 times, once every 2.00s

    ~~~~~~

    My biggest issue with this is not the fact that some of these perks are supposed to be a snare (The shot and Leg shot aren't even supposed to be a snare according to the description)... but in fact, they are roots. There is a big difference between a snare and a root. Roots stop targets completly... Snares slow them down but do not stop them. The second issue is with perks like Leg shot and The Shot where nowhere in the description does it state once that these are a snare nor root, they say damage, initiatives, and damage over time. Nothing about roots or snares. So what do mp's get which should remove these roots or snares from perks? Answer is nothing. We just watch our pets stand there playing tiddlywinks for 30 seconds to over a minute while agents and traders stand there laughing at us. But we have Pet attention and Pet Cleanse... yes we do but they are useless against perks. Let us examine Pet Attention and Pet Cleanse, the 2 nanos which affect snares and roots.

    Pet Attention: You call for your pet's attention. This will cause any Snare, Root, or Calm nano programs affecting your pets to be removed.
    Target Remove strain Snare.
    Target Remove strain Root.
    Target Remove strain Mezz.

    Pet Cleanse: You cleanse the ncu of all of your pets which provides the pet resistance to the following nano lines: Roots, Snares, Mezz, Init Debuffs, Stuns, Ransack, Deprive, Damage Debuffs and Nano Shutdown.

    ~~~~~~

    Is there a way to make it so we can make these perks work as they should have been in the first place as a snare and not a root or at least make it so the root can be mitigated against or at least able to be removed by the mp or any other pet professions having their pets being affected by these?
    Mouadiib - Crat (220) - Main
    Crishian - MP (220) - PVP MP
    Willitankit - Enfo (220) - I wanna sammich!
    Haliy - Doc (220) - Research galore... fun fun :/
    Xaii - Agent (220) - In hiding
    Vindeta - Engi (220) - TS Engi
    Vindetta - Soldier (220)
    Nisset - Shade (220)
    Mouaa - Trader (220)
    Rochambau - Froob Fixer (200)
    Lliaa - NT (126) - Ely kit xp powerlever
    Miserii - MP (100) Formans twink
    Kahluafix - Fix (60) GA3 totw twink

  2. #2
    not that I doubt your post, but don't perks upload a nanoprogram on a successful check - in which case the pet cleanse, etc. should function on the hostile nano running in the NCU?

    Or are the lines different and not covered?

  3. #3
    Haven't actually played AO in ages, since before the latest perk rebalance are you talking PvM or PvP? Because Snares rooting mobs (and pets) has been there for over a decade.
    Brofist 220/30/70 Engineer
    Techbro 220/30/70 Nano-Technician

  4. #4
    Snare Nano Line.
    That's all that will get removed by a snare remover Mc.

    As for `Leg Shot`, the snare fits with the name even if it's not in the description.
    On the `it roots and not snares`, that would mean your pets have terrible run speed, which they inherit from their caster.

    220s "Wakizaka", "Sneakygank", "Wakimango", "Wakisolja", "Tardersauce", "Bushwaki", "Midgetgank", "Bugfixxx", "Ramsbottom", "Paskadoc"
    200s Chrisd, Malema, Delbaeth
    TL5s Youfail, Bugfixx, Riothamus, Johndee

    Proud President of Haven | TL5 PvP


  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Wakizaka View Post
    On the `it roots and not snares`, that would mean your pets have terrible run speed, which they inherit from their caster.
    To put it simply...no, you are wrong. Mmmmkay? Snares on pets work similar to how they work on mobs, which as you may or may not know from playing your fixer - is totally ****ed up. A snare on an object in motion slows it down, but once stopped most mobs in game become unable to move. To illustrate this in the laziest way possible, I went to basic shop and bought the first snare I saw ("Lesser Nano Net", -180 Runspeed). Then I used DB security codes and cast the snare on a DB Commando, a level 250 mob that is reasonably quick. He was rendered completely immobile by a QL10 RK snare nano. And that is what happens when agents use snare perks on pets, they become completely unable to move after the first time they stop to try to hit the agent. I encourage you to test it for yourself. It has nothing to do with pet/pet owner being runspeed deficient.

    The duration of these perks should never have been more than 5-10s (at least in pvp, trader drains and other debuffs now have different durations for pvm/pvp so it shouldn't be hard to do).
    New Engine - Announced: June 2007 ETA: Soon™ I'm speechless (June 2015)
    Rebalancing - Announced: January 2009 ETA: December 21, 2012 Started! (April 2015)
    New TL7 Pets - Announced: March 2009 ETA: Uh...
    AS Changes - Announced: July 2009 ETA: TBA
    Parry/Riposte - Announced: October 2009 ETA: ??? Did it! (April 2015)
    Perk Changes - Announced: October 2009 ETA: Right after server merge Started! (April 2015)
    Breed Change - Announced: November 2009 ETA: Hell freezing They did it!!! (Oct 2012)
    Beta Server - Announced: January 2010 ETA: Pigs Flying Did it! (Feb 2014)

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Louderer789 View Post
    To put it simply...no, you are wrong. Mmmmkay? Snares on pets work similar to how they work on mobs, which as you may or may not know from playing your fixer - is totally ****ed up. A snare on an object in motion slows it down, but once stopped most mobs in game become unable to move. To illustrate this in the laziest way possible, I went to basic shop and bought the first snare I saw ("Lesser Nano Net", -180 Runspeed). Then I used DB security codes and cast the snare on a DB Commando, a level 250 mob that is reasonably quick. He was rendered completely immobile by a QL10 RK snare nano. And that is what happens when agents use snare perks on pets, they become completely unable to move after the first time they stop to try to hit the agent. I encourage you to test it for yourself. It has nothing to do with pet/pet owner being runspeed deficient.

    The duration of these perks should never have been more than 5-10s (at least in pvp, trader drains and other debuffs now have different durations for pvm/pvp so it shouldn't be hard to do).
    Wow.. just wow.

    Thanks for that! I had no idea about this, but this is pretty useful information!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Louderer789 View Post
    To put it simply...no, you are wrong.
    Ah right, I forgot to consider pets not in motion at the time of snaring.
    Thanks for pointing that out.

    220s "Wakizaka", "Sneakygank", "Wakimango", "Wakisolja", "Tardersauce", "Bushwaki", "Midgetgank", "Bugfixxx", "Ramsbottom", "Paskadoc"
    200s Chrisd, Malema, Delbaeth
    TL5s Youfail, Bugfixx, Riothamus, Johndee

    Proud President of Haven | TL5 PvP


  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by haliy View Post
    Agent specific

    There are currently 4 perks that I know of (3 from the agent perk line and 1 from the trader perk line) which are designed to snare but actually root instead and then I have a followup for removal

    The Shot: The effect of this special is a huge direct damage, and target initiatives debuff.
    Duration 20 Seconds Recharge 75 seconds.
    Self Modify Ranged. Init. -500
    Self Modify NanoC. Init. -500
    Self Modify Run Speed -500

    Tranquilizer: The effect of this Special is a low direct damage, snare, and it will lower the targets combat abilities
    Duration 25 Seconds Recharge, 60 seconds.
    Target Modify Run Speed -1200
    Target Modify Ranged. Init. -1400

    Soften Up: The effect of this Special is a snare and AC debuff
    Duration, 20 seconds. Recharge, 2 minutes
    User At level 200: Modify Run Speed -600
    User At level 200: Modify Melee/ma AC -4000
    User At level 200: Modify Energy AC -4000
    User At level 200: Modify Imp/Proj AC -4000
    User At level 200: Modify Fire AC -4000
    User At level 200: Modify Cold AC -4000
    User At level 200: Modify Chemical AC -4000
    User At level 200: Modify Disease AC -4000
    User At level 200: Modify Radiation AC -4000

    Total time - 1:05 min root

    Trader specific
    Leg Shot: The effect of this Special is a direct damage and damage over time
    Duration, 30 seconds Recharge, 48 seconds

    Without Bloodletting
    User Damage for 60.
    User Modify Run Speed -600
    User Damage for 60. 15 times, once every 2.00s

    With Bloodletting
    User Modify Run Speed -1000
    User Damage for 120.
    User Damage for 120. 15 times, once every 2.00s

    ~~~~~~

    My biggest issue with this is not the fact that some of these perks are supposed to be a snare (The shot and Leg shot aren't even supposed to be a snare according to the description)... but in fact, they are roots. There is a big difference between a snare and a root. Roots stop targets completly... Snares slow them down but do not stop them. The second issue is with perks like Leg shot and The Shot where nowhere in the description does it state once that these are a snare nor root, they say damage, initiatives, and damage over time. Nothing about roots or snares. So what do mp's get which should remove these roots or snares from perks? Answer is nothing. We just watch our pets stand there playing tiddlywinks for 30 seconds to over a minute while agents and traders stand there laughing at us. But we have Pet attention and Pet Cleanse... yes we do but they are useless against perks. Let us examine Pet Attention and Pet Cleanse, the 2 nanos which affect snares and roots.

    Pet Attention: You call for your pet's attention. This will cause any Snare, Root, or Calm nano programs affecting your pets to be removed.
    Target Remove strain Snare.
    Target Remove strain Root.
    Target Remove strain Mezz.

    Pet Cleanse: You cleanse the ncu of all of your pets which provides the pet resistance to the following nano lines: Roots, Snares, Mezz, Init Debuffs, Stuns, Ransack, Deprive, Damage Debuffs and Nano Shutdown.

    ~~~~~~

    Is there a way to make it so we can make these perks work as they should have been in the first place as a snare and not a root or at least make it so the root can be mitigated against or at least able to be removed by the mp or any other pet professions having their pets being affected by these?

    "All works as intended". The Perks are made for root, maybe change the discription. (Big discussion years ago)
    In the other way nerf Snare/Root removal from Pets to make a chance to avoid pet damage. For example engie Pets deal about 240k/min, there must be a chance to avoid this by using Roots.
    Pet support ist massivly to strong with Pet clearance and instantly Root/Snare removal because since UBT nerf there isnt a way to reduce incoming pet damange for Docs, Agents and the like. Killing Pets only works on MP`s but you can recast it every 2min.
    Carolus Hekthor Priamos - Advisor of S.I.N.C

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    not that I doubt your post, but don't perks upload a nanoprogram on a successful check - in which case the pet cleanse, etc. should function on the hostile nano running in the NCU?
    Or are the lines different and not covered?
    No, unfortunately this is not the case, perks are just that... perks. no nanoprogram is actually loaded into the ncu and since those perks are not subject to the nanolines which are removed from either Pet Attention nor Pet Cleanse, all 4 of these perks will not be removed and stay for the duration of the perk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brofist View Post
    Haven't actually played AO in ages, since before the latest perk rebalance are you talking PvM or PvP? Because Snares rooting mobs (and pets) has been there for over a decade.
    PvP specific but snares in general have the same effect on pets and mobs regardless if its PVM or PVP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wakizaka View Post
    As for `Leg Shot`, the snare fits with the name even if it's not in the description.
    On the `it roots and not snares`, that would mean your pets have terrible run speed, which they inherit from their caster.
    Yes, I agree that it fits with the name in theory. I mean if your gonna get shot in the leg, they yea... your gonna end up slowing down because your well, shot in the leg. But if that said, The shot has no bearing for what it constitutes for. Where exactly is this shot being hit at. The Shot to the junk, The Shot to the ear, The shot to the pinky toe.... If all perks were assumed what they did delt with their names, I would hate to see what a trox doing with Full Frontal would do. Atrox Thong-Prevention Glasses would definitely be in order then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louderer789 View Post
    To put it simply...no, you are wrong. Mmmmkay? Snares on pets work similar to how they work on mobs, which as you may or may not know from playing your fixer - is totally ****ed up. A snare on an object in motion slows it down, but once stopped most mobs in game become unable to move. To illustrate this in the laziest way possible, I went to basic shop and bought the first snare I saw ("Lesser Nano Net", -180 Runspeed). Then I used DB security codes and cast the snare on a DB Commando, a level 250 mob that is reasonably quick. He was rendered completely immobile by a QL10 RK snare nano. And that is what happens when agents use snare perks on pets, they become completely unable to move after the first time they stop to try to hit the agent. I encourage you to test it for yourself. It has nothing to do with pet/pet owner being runspeed deficient.

    The duration of these perks should never have been more than 5-10s (at least in pvp, trader drains and other debuffs now have different durations for pvm/pvp so it shouldn't be hard to do).
    Why are you automatically assuming that i am disputing that i am disagreeing with you. I agree that those snares on pets work 100% exactly like that of normal mobs which is completely fubar. The difference is that those snares from nano programs CAN be removed buy Pet Attention. The only nano that I have seen which cannot be removed by Pet Attention nor Pet Cleanse is Crat's LMN which lasts 45 seconds but at least that nano has a downside which it cant be casted on the same target for 10 min after it wears off, i can handle that because then there's a restriction on that nano being constantly used with a close time frame. Perks on the other hand are not able to be removed and can constantly be used over and over again within that close timeframe (Within seconds of the last perk or overlapping to extend the duration)

    The only thing i would partially disagree with you on your statement is the motion of the mob. When casting a snare on a mob while it is moving, it will continue to move until it stops. Once stopped, then it remains immobile until attacked which then, it has a % to break and not automatic. Some snares are much harder to break on the mob affected by snare than others (Agent snares are much easier to break compared to crat snares). Now when the pets are currently in motion and then perked, regardless on if there in motion, they still become immobile. they could be traveling at a runspeed of 3k and perked, they stop to 0. If the perks were roots, then yes, they would become immobile right away but there not, there snares. In this case, should they still not be moving until stopping their motion?
    Mouadiib - Crat (220) - Main
    Crishian - MP (220) - PVP MP
    Willitankit - Enfo (220) - I wanna sammich!
    Haliy - Doc (220) - Research galore... fun fun :/
    Xaii - Agent (220) - In hiding
    Vindeta - Engi (220) - TS Engi
    Vindetta - Soldier (220)
    Nisset - Shade (220)
    Mouaa - Trader (220)
    Rochambau - Froob Fixer (200)
    Lliaa - NT (126) - Ely kit xp powerlever
    Miserii - MP (100) Formans twink
    Kahluafix - Fix (60) GA3 totw twink

  10. #10
    Basically this would require a huge rework since the way the perk actions are coded mean that they sit entirely in their own nanoline.

    Leg shot nanoline is: leg shot

    Since it's a unique effect with unique attributes.

    Snare/root removals only remove the "snare" nanoline which constitutes only casted nanos.

    I did make a suggestion to change this in another thread and the gist of it was:

    Separate the damage/movement/debuff parts of a perk (if they have them)

    Add the debuff category to the general debuff nanolines
    add the movement modifiers (snare/root) to the relevant nanolines

    This would fix all perks and allow removals to work on them.

    It's not a quick job though, so no idea how far up this would be on Michi's neverending list, my current way to deal with people exploiting this mechanic is to engineer snare someone and warp my pets on top of them

  11. #11
    I'm sure all the clever agents would hate to see this change, nothing more annoying in bs than unremovable snares on pets.
    Devil Inside
    Demon Inside

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehevolz View Post
    I'm sure all the clever agents would hate to see this change, nothing more annoying in bs than unremovable snares on pets.
    unremovable snares on pets when facing a runner agent, you could kill with pistols/shotgun only already?
    Ciassene

  13. #13
    if the agent is 175 maybe u can kill them with weapons only ;D

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by haliy View Post
    Why are you automatically assuming that i am disputing that i am disagreeing with you.
    I was disagreeing with Wakizaka, which I thought was self evident from the fact that I quoted him...
    New Engine - Announced: June 2007 ETA: Soon™ I'm speechless (June 2015)
    Rebalancing - Announced: January 2009 ETA: December 21, 2012 Started! (April 2015)
    New TL7 Pets - Announced: March 2009 ETA: Uh...
    AS Changes - Announced: July 2009 ETA: TBA
    Parry/Riposte - Announced: October 2009 ETA: ??? Did it! (April 2015)
    Perk Changes - Announced: October 2009 ETA: Right after server merge Started! (April 2015)
    Breed Change - Announced: November 2009 ETA: Hell freezing They did it!!! (Oct 2012)
    Beta Server - Announced: January 2010 ETA: Pigs Flying Did it! (Feb 2014)

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciassene View Post
    unremovable snares on pets when facing a runner agent, you could kill with pistols/shotgun only already?
    Did you forget how to troll well? Guess you are getting rusty.
    Devil Inside
    Demon Inside

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuniko View Post
    Basically this would require a huge rework since the way the perk actions are coded mean that they sit entirely in their own nanoline.

    Leg shot nanoline is: leg shot

    Since it's a unique effect with unique attributes.

    Snare/root removals only remove the "snare" nanoline which constitutes only casted nanos.

    I did make a suggestion to change this in another thread and the gist of it was:

    Separate the damage/movement/debuff parts of a perk (if they have them)

    Add the debuff category to the general debuff nanolines
    add the movement modifiers (snare/root) to the relevant nanolines

    This would fix all perks and allow removals to work on them.

    It's not a quick job though, so no idea how far up this would be on Michi's neverending list, my current way to deal with people exploiting this mechanic is to engineer snare someone and warp my pets on top of them
    Probably be easier to just have pet attention also remove all perk debuffs that have a snare effect by adding them to the remove list. So pet attention removes, snare nano line, root nano line, leg shot nano line, etc...
    Brofist 220/30/70 Engineer
    Techbro 220/30/70 Nano-Technician

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •