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Thread: Rebalanced heals and froob doctors

  1. #21
    I say again UBT can land on bosses now.

    And I can self 850 heal + ubt and chain CH.

    Ch is now an actual CH, healing many my paid char for 20-30k hp. 60k on enfo. Epic healing rate.

    Also enfos now have heal reactivity. Helping your doc heal more, and recharge on heals is faster...

    Offcorse watching heals have equal bm and mm requirement just feels out of place. 1 to 1.10 ratio seems just fine.

    Maybe give froobs some love.... Its free, and does not hurt endgame pvp or multiboxing drama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  2. #22
    Thanks Cratertina, I realise that UBT lands easier now and that enfo's have heal reactivity, as well more HP than before. Not nearly 60k when talking about froobs, but the point stands.

    However I feel I took this into account when calling Recuperative Respite (950BM) about equal to our old healing power, Emergency Medical Response slightly worse, and Lifegiving Elixir (1050BM) slightly better than before. Looking at the raw numbers, chaincasting CH should've been much more powerful, but when I tried the new heals in a real situation (at a Hollow Island raid with froob docs and a froob tank), the healing power was sufficient.

    My complaint is not that the new heals aren't good enough, but that the requirements are too high. Sure it is possible to cast the lowest heal selfbuffed, but at as you described, you need to be level 200 for it and wearing nanoskill buffing items such as miy sleeves, and probably a reanimator robe. Maybe you could even post your setup? There are other trade-offs you can make, such as not being able to selfcast your other nano's anymore, e.g. Superior Omni-Med Enhancement, or not using weapons.
    Before these changes, we had choices to go for a damage setup, a tanking setup, a tradeskill setup, a nano-delta setup, etc. There were many choices and you were a viable healer with most of them. Now you can only choose between varying degrees of nanoskill setups.

  3. #23
    why wouldn't you wear a reanimator robe as a doc? hell my 220 doc wears one and it's best in slot item at tl7.
    Operator Elitist "Lazyfixer" Jerk || 220/30/70 trox Fixer || Fixer PVP Guide ||| Doctor "Lazydoc" Greenthumb || 220/30/67 nm Doctor ||| Ubringshame "Sarariman" Tofamiry || 220/30/xx soli crat || DD || Solo
    Quote Originally Posted by Baldios View Post
    U think u will obtain respect from Bryger if u herass him ? fool! u will only gain hate, more...hate...much more...hate

  4. #24
    a setup like http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=169630 plus M.A.G.S. Aggression Enhancer
    in hud 2 give you the follow stats

    MM 919 BM 949
    PM 864 SI 746
    TS 842 MC 747

    nano c init 1380 with a 9478 nanopool with Coalescing Energy Cascade up

    places where more MM could be found is 5 from IS ring right finger, head lya sangi glasses 250 16 nano skills

    gets us 932
    The we can get 8 from Boots of Azure Reveries

    used to be the Pulsing Biotech Rod Ring was useable by froobs , would give us 11 more if we could use a pair of those

  5. #25
    so what you're saying is that in raid situations where you have a lot of people you can cast the top heal with infuses and in teaming where raidheals aren't needed you can get by with a lower heal that heals for double the value of the old top heal? sounds balanced imo. not sure if you know this but a lot of tl7 professions can't selfcast their top nanos either and need to rely on osb's to use them.
    Operator Elitist "Lazyfixer" Jerk || 220/30/70 trox Fixer || Fixer PVP Guide ||| Doctor "Lazydoc" Greenthumb || 220/30/67 nm Doctor ||| Ubringshame "Sarariman" Tofamiry || 220/30/xx soli crat || DD || Solo
    Quote Originally Posted by Baldios View Post
    U think u will obtain respect from Bryger if u herass him ? fool! u will only gain hate, more...hate...much more...hate

  6. #26
    Those numbers are on a lvl 199 , you do the math for a lower char , the issue was that nano before didnt have bm/mm regs that was the same, that every classic ao doctor armor and item reflects that by the way the all add BM .

    And yeah alot of tl7 had issues that they couldnt cast their nanos in their none nano setup, and by god did each and everyone whine, that when they where in full CSS they lacked nanoskills use the nanos .

    Gets by only swapping phulak and nanoskill hud3 on my fixer for sws, and only nanohud for top weapon buff and ncu , and making due with Slip of Will .

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    so what you're saying is that in raid situations where you have a lot of people you can cast the top heal with infuses and in teaming where raidheals aren't needed you can get by with a lower heal that heals for double the value of the old top heal? sounds balanced imo. not sure if you know this but a lot of tl7 professions can't selfcast their top nanos either and need to rely on osb's to use them.
    I would even go so far as to say that this was wholly intended by FunCom - to have the top nanos in most nanolines require MP or Trader intervention to cast (and then MP/NT/Trader intervention to chain it if necessary). But there's several reasons why that isn't the case and we've gotten so used to it by this point.
    [[ RYUAHN | 220/21 Opifex Trader
    == Proud Member of Core ==
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    There is literally nothing wrong with {Shutdown Skills} in it's current incarnation. What should be being looked at is the reason why it's needed so much. E.g, the incredible amount of Alpha being thrown around and the fickleness of Evade profs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    I walk in to BS... could not perk people... with 3704 AR and 300 AAD drain... NT facerolled me, shade instagibbed me, after a few minutes I just decided not gonna bother.

  8. #28
    Okay I'll give up

    Personally I thought I had made a pretty good post explaining why I think my suggestion would improve a froob doctor's ability to do what we could do before the rebalance and that the impact on non-froobs would be minimal if there was one at all.

    I honestly didn't expect such resistance against it and I don't think I even understand why. But my replies don't seem to help, so I'll let it rest.

  9. #29
    I'm going to have a closer look at this, myself.

    The Nano cost and skill requirements do seem to have a very steep jump, and I don't know if I fully agree with that.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Saavick View Post
    I honestly didn't expect such resistance against it and I don't think I even understand why.
    You should know by now haters gonna hate anything that doesn't benefit their characters. Now objectively speaking, I have 3 paid accounts and it has zero affect on me if froob doctors get a bone thrown their way. BUT there are some folks who feel that by supporting an idea to help QoL of froobs that somehow hurts the abilities of their non froob toons. smh

    Doctor imo, is THE hardest prof to play to 200 as froob considering you must use crappy rk weapons or wait for teams to do anything.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

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  11. #31
    Alright, I had a look into this, and I think the requirements are unbalanced. In a pure nanoskill build, an endgame froob indeed cannot cast Lifegiving Elixer, and probably not Recuperative Respite.

    It's important to remember a few things here... We're all thinking endgame, and it's still not even close to enough. We're talking about a nanoskill profession in an all out nanoskill setup, not some outlandish damage setup that should reasonably have drawbacks.

    The reqs for EMR, RR, and LE suck. I say change them.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  12. #32
    i think the better question we should all be asking is who gives two tugs of a dead dog's tail about "endgame" froobs? i still think that if froobs want to cast the best nanos they should stop being poor and pay for an expansion account...
    Operator Elitist "Lazyfixer" Jerk || 220/30/70 trox Fixer || Fixer PVP Guide ||| Doctor "Lazydoc" Greenthumb || 220/30/67 nm Doctor ||| Ubringshame "Sarariman" Tofamiry || 220/30/xx soli crat || DD || Solo
    Quote Originally Posted by Baldios View Post
    U think u will obtain respect from Bryger if u herass him ? fool! u will only gain hate, more...hate...much more...hate

  13. #33
    No the question is why are you so fearful of changes that would bring regs in line with what they where before ?

    If the regs needed to be that high as they are now its solo because we have way too many nanoskills as expansion players from the overpowered armor, symbs, research and other crap, so instead of raising regs on them, they should have start to seriours trim our gear so we dont lvl 100-125 and can use each and every none locked nano till tl7.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by pinkishpunk View Post
    No the question is why are you so fearful of changes that would bring regs in line with what they where before ? If the regs needed to be that high as they are now its solo because we have way too many nanoskills as expansion players from the overpowered armor, symbs, research and other crap, so instead of raising regs on them, they should have start to seriours trim our gear so we dont lvl 100-125 and can use each and every none locked nano till tl7.
    so you want to nerf people that pay €15/mo so that freeloaders can cast their top nanos? nty. balance should be catered towards people that pay the devs' salaries, not the ones that leech bandwidth.
    Operator Elitist "Lazyfixer" Jerk || 220/30/70 trox Fixer || Fixer PVP Guide ||| Doctor "Lazydoc" Greenthumb || 220/30/67 nm Doctor ||| Ubringshame "Sarariman" Tofamiry || 220/30/xx soli crat || DD || Solo
    Quote Originally Posted by Baldios View Post
    U think u will obtain respect from Bryger if u herass him ? fool! u will only gain hate, more...hate...much more...hate

  15. #35
    care to explain how that is nerfing ? the ballancing act is not limited to rasing thing, we have seen how whole perk lines have been removed, other changed around, you serioursly dont except them to start looking at AI armor, symbs and co ? because that would be nerfing you ? Get real.

  16. #36
    Lazy has a couple of OK points, but I think he didn't cover the most important one, which he neglected to mention, despite it being alluded to.

    If Lazy is concerned with 'paid' balance more so than froob balance, then what he should have mentioned is Tl5 agent and Tl3/4/5 doctor balance.

    See, LGE is actually pretty hard for an agent to cast, and that is actually helping balance at this point. For years, a serious issue was agent FP doc at TL5. Now agents have a whole whack of other serious issues affecting balance, but they certainly don't need LOWER nanoskills on top heals to make them more tanky/ better survival while they are the top dogs of offense.

    I hate to add fuel to this fire, because in my heart of hearts I actually feel like froob AO is the purest, uncorrupted version of the game remaining, and in recent times I've been somewhat frustrated by paid balance (or lack thereof), and further to that I can certainly see that the trickledown hasn't been kind to the froob population either.

    TL;DR adjusting nanoskill req's may aggravate some already poignant balance issues in paid AO; but I can sympathize with the froob population and wish there was a more equitable outcome.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    See, LGE is actually pretty hard for an agent to cast, and that is actually helping balance at this point. For years, a serious issue was agent FP doc at TL5. Now agents have a whole whack of other serious issues affecting balance, but they certainly don't need LOWER nanoskills on top heals to make them more tanky/ better survival while they are the top dogs of offense.
    I know where you're coming from, but I don't think balancing a profession's toolset around agents makes any sense.

    If some heals are too strong for an agent to use, then they need to be profession locked.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Vinkera View Post
    I know where you're coming from, but I don't think balancing a profession's toolset around agents makes any sense.If some heals are too strong for an agent to use, then they need to be profession locked.
    i thought we wanted to give agents access to MORE nanos to bring them in line with how they could cast everything pre-sl? wasn't that a thing? besides, tl5 doctors have no problem reaching the requirements for the new LE. it's froobs that have a problem and balancing a profession around what a freeloader can or cannot cast isn't the way to go. (not that agents don't need tl5 nerfs - they do. but profession locking nanos isn't the way to achieve that)
    Operator Elitist "Lazyfixer" Jerk || 220/30/70 trox Fixer || Fixer PVP Guide ||| Doctor "Lazydoc" Greenthumb || 220/30/67 nm Doctor ||| Ubringshame "Sarariman" Tofamiry || 220/30/xx soli crat || DD || Solo
    Quote Originally Posted by Baldios View Post
    U think u will obtain respect from Bryger if u herass him ? fool! u will only gain hate, more...hate...much more...hate

  19. #39
    Agent's are definitely a whole different mess of issues that we could write books on. :P

    The problem is taking away functionality from anyone, froob or not, isn't right if there's no reason to do so. You can look at froobs as freeloaders, but providing a free to play option is a choice Funcom has made. To provide even basic nanos to one of the most basic professions in such a half cocked way is just sloppy. If this were some top RK buff or something that they couldn't cast in an offensive setup, I'd completely agree and say go pound sand.

    I could be wrong, but suspect these changes were made by a somewhat unpopular GD that will remain nameless, because they don't seem well thought out if you ask me. :P
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  20. #40
    At risk of derailing this thread further into the current favourite "Agents are OP", wouldn't the simple way of dealing with any potential impact of changes to Docs' heals on agents be by adding modifiers (e.g. heal efficiency/reactivity) to their FP nano?

    On topic: Given the model that FC have adopted, Fr00bs can be paying customers too (thanks to the itemshop), so, while not the highest priority, their balance shouldn't be ignored. And given that, as the OP proposed, the return to weighted requirements would not negatively impact the subbed community, I don't see why this shouldn't just be seen as an easy win.
    Last edited by Auct; Feb 22nd, 2016 at 17:29:35. Reason: typo

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