Viablity of ranged crit setup? Drop out FA completely?

[Dysfunction]

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...ht=full%20auto

I believe that is the thread Waki was mentioning

[Wakizaka]

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...ht=full%20auto

I believe that is the thread Waki was mentioning

I believe it was that one too. Thanks Dys

[Zwelgje]

Very nice post and never seen before, very weird cut-off points as well

[Timba]

Awesome info, stuff I didn't know about. I always thought as well that the damage is nerfed past 10k, but not exactly by how much.

I've changed the setup a bit more, it's now energy based, with Electrophoridae Gloves for +60 and changed to Burning Plasma Aruls.
http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=202694
So this should net around 37% crit + 2% Neck + 2% Head + 5% pad + 11 MoP + 1 % Coffee = 58% crit chance, with a lot of energy damage add.

Except the ERBP and some rare items as the ACDC/VTS/Electro gloves/300 EOE, it seems a pretty cheap setup to do regarding exotic items.
My actual setup that I used to pull those numbers posted on last page still lacks a few items, http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=202788, and damage can only go up from there!

[Cratertina]

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...ht=full%20auto

I believe that is the thread Waki was mentioning

This explains why advy always FA for around 12-13k so poor. Because all bullets after 11.500 deal 1/4th damage.. and you only have 10 to land at best. BLAH!
So if this stupid MEchanic was fixed.. maybe FA would land just nice on "lame" pistol and score nice 15k's.

I hereby purpose a change to full auto.

Remove this stupid cap, have the gun at most fire 20 rounds. 15k cap, but no reductions at 10k, and 11.5k. "Poor professions" can hit 15k with their pistols and whatnots... and soldiers/fixers dont have to reload after each FA.

[Zwelgje]

@Timba, Nice going (would love to see more numbers ). For most PvM (and when playing ranged), Energy is (imho) the way to go (and FA). And if played actively, your damage is much better then people expect. My toon could surprise people when they measured DD in a raid vs the equipment used. I've always used the simple rule (even back from when I played Diablo 2 (amazon crit skill O.o) that your static chance to crit should vary between 33% and 50%. Below 33% isn't really worth using (If you have it it's nice, but still meh) and over 50% would not outweigh the invested skill vs the increased %. So I've always skilled/equiped till at least 33% - 50% max on any normal toon that's usually not crit reliant. The exception are of course highly Crit depended profession, like my (MA) Trader, Shade or Agent, then I try to push till at least 75% and up, but they also have it easier getting to that mark as it's part of there skill set. Didn't do the Leet vs Cat calc on this, but I think I've noticed Cat is better for Pistol and Leet is better for Melee.

This explains why advy always FA for around 12-13k so poor. Because all bullets after 11.500 deal 1/4th damage.. and you only have 10 to land at best. BLAH! So if this stupid MEchanic was fixed.. maybe FA would land just nice on "lame" pistol and score nice 15k's. I hereby purpose a change to full auto. Remove this stupid cap, have the gun at most fire 20 rounds. 15k cap, but no reductions at 10k, and 11.5k. "Poor professions" can hit 15k with their pistols and whatnots... and soldiers/fixers don't have to reload after each FA.

This is why Advy's been nagging for a clip upgrade for so long (only a clip upgrade would solve the margin from 12k to 15k FA's). The cap it self is imho oke, because firing more then 10 bullet's and stacking damage is easy even for the lower lvl's. The nerf is there for those earlier lvl's not to make the FA to powerful to early (some tweaking could be done, sure). I've also been pro removing Cap's completely (and then some tweaking indeed). And I'm not so sure for Sol/Fix not having to reload after a FA. It's also part of the play tactics. First: fling, burst, then FA... etc.

[Lazy]

It's also part of the play tactics. First: fling, burst, then FA... etc.

you equip the fa weapon in left hand and the burst/fling weapon in the mainhand. that way you can burst off mainhand while the fa weapon is reloading. at least it works that way for fixers.

[Zwelgje]

you equip the fa weapon in left hand and the burst/fling weapon in the mainhand. that way you can burst off mainhand while the fa weapon is reloading. at least it works that way for fixers.

Check your attack log, You'll never get-in a fling or burst "during" reload... The burst always activates after the reloading is done (or if you're really quick, before the FA gun remembers it needs a reload). During the actual 1sec reload action, specials won't fire at all (as far as I've experienced). It's just a second, but still. I just remembered that this can easily be tested with a slow reloading gun. I'll see if I can do that tonight. But if anyone else could do it sooner, please do

[Wakizaka]

You need to spam your hotkey harder.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Check your attack log, You'll never get-in a fling or burst "during" reload... The burst always activates after the reloading is done (or if you're really quick, before the FA gun remembers it needs a reload). During the actual 1sec reload action, specials won't fire at all (as far as I've experienced). It's just a second, but still. I just remembered that this can easily be tested with a slow reloading gun. I'll see if I can do that tonight. But if anyone else could do it sooner, please do

It's not a full second.

As soon as the bar has progressed about 10-25% you can fire off your specials.

It still has to charge, then drops to zero, then charges again immediately after FA though.

[Zwelgje]

Well tried and perhaps I'm doing it wrong. (I guess I did ..)
Twitch + HSR Arms: (First I FA then smash Burst)


2.3 sec reload time/ tested only 10 times:
You hit with 20 bullets...
You hit Guard for 12792 points of Full Auto damage.
Reloading...
<--- If you are able to get in a Burst or Fling on this spot [between the reload and reload complete] please post.... ---->
Reloading completed
Attacked by Guard!
You hit Guard for 6484 points of Burst damage.
Wait for your previous special attack to complete.

1 sec reload time/ 1 out of 5 times tested (I just stopped there as your point seems to be proven somehow :
Twitch + Jobe:
You hit with 10 bullets...
You hit Guard for 11953 points of Full Auto damage.
Reloading...
You hit Guard for 6965 points of Burst damage.
Reloading completed
Attacked by Guard!
You hit Guard for 2436 points of Fling Shot damage.

Somehow I did squeeze one in. But not sure if that's the delay in displaying the command line and actually finished reloading. With the HSM I have much more time to spam Burst during reload and didn't get one single Burst between those command lines. But the Jobe has a much faster reload and perhaps the command line can't keep up (or the way around). But based on the HSM pistol I do think you aren't suppose to fire off a Special.

I guess I've been to gentle on my keyboard....

[Timba]

My theory is that the idea, like with any multiplayer game, is the client - server synchronization.

If you FA, the server registers you sending the attack and calculates the damage, then sends you back the data and the fact that you need to probably reload after. If the server receives another attack between the calculation and the "in reload" state, ideally it should send you something like "Wait, can't Burst while reloading". And it manages to do that it seems, but somehow, due to latency or priority, you de-sync, and it does Burst or something else between it as well. I'm going to say that due to the tight window of reloading with the Jobe you are able to do it more often and can't do it with the higher reload time.

It was a problem that World of Warcraft had, but they added checks later so you couldn't use instant skills during the global cooldown.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

hmm

Seems I miscommunicated, or Zwelgje misinterpreted. Either way, I'll explain more carefully here:

Note that this only seems to work (observable) on weapons where you're using FA, then there's another special ready on the same weapon (i.e. Anger), OR, you're running out of bullets, FA is ready, and you're just waiting on the reload to fire.

So, on my advy, for example, when using the Jobe pistol, that I fire an FA, then it's pew pew pew and about the time when the FA is comin gup, I'm down to about 1 bullet.

I'm sometimes too lazy to reload, so I'll just wait for the last bullet to go, then I see the reload bar come up, and as SOON as I see the reload bar I start spamming FA.

And here's the observation: I can get an FA off before the bar has finished going from left to right.



OK, and on Soldier, even easier to test since Anger has FA/burst. So, hit FA, then the reload bar starts, and spam burst, you'll see that the burst actually hits (you can see the damage done in the window) faster than the bar takes to fully reload.

Note that in neither case am I actually watching the chat spam, I'm only looking at the visuals.

[Zwelgje]

hmm

Seems I miscommunicated, or Zwelgje misinterpreted.

I guess I misinterpreted your observation however I do think both issues are based on the same behavious of the AO client... You use the same weapon to fire a special before the reload finishes. I however use a secondary weapon. I also seem to notice that the faster the reload of a weapon the more often this has worked. While during the reload of a realy slow reloading weapon there was 0 chance of firing a special. Therefor I do believe we are all either misusing the quickness of our fast reloading weapons or just observe a sync issue. And we arn't suppose to fire off any special during reload of either weapon.

Would love to know if a Dev is able to confirm either or perhaps a third scenario but I guess they are busy with the real important stuff.

[Wakizaka]

I've changed the setup a bit more, it's now energy based, with Electrophoridae Gloves for +60 and changed to Burning Plasma Aruls.
http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=202694
So this should net around 37% crit + 2% Neck + 2% Head + 5% pad + 11 MoP + 1 % Coffee = 58% crit chance, with a lot of energy damage add.

You can now update your chest from DChest to Dust Brigade Operative Chest which offers 5% crit and +35 damage versus the +42 damage on the DChest.

[Timba]

+84 damage, since Energy damage is doubled on a D-Chest. Still , that chest would offer ... 35+ 110, 26 over Dchest.
So stats should be... 58%+5% = 63% crit chance, plus lots of Energy damage.

I'm MIA from the game, gone to better pastures. Has anyone actually realized any Adv DD setup in game and has actual numbers on how it performs?

[Wakizaka]

+84 damage, since Energy damage is doubled on a D-Chest.

Wow, I never noticed they fubar'd the DChest in 18.7 to double energy damage. o.O

[McKnuckleSamwich]

looks at Dchest.

looks at bank details.

goes back to whatever.

[Timba]

So regarding the damage/crit setup.

Not much luck ingame gathering stuff for an ultimate crit build. Only just recently got the Awakened Shoulderplates.

Stuff I still need:
- Using a 12 crit VTS instead of 15.
- Still need an Aquarius Multitasker.
- Need to swap in the new Operative armor ( New sleeves give +1 more crit than normal DB sleeves. Chest gives 3 more crit and 20 more damage )
- Need CC gloves
- Need Awakened Combat board. Made a Defense board like the stupid I am.
- Need to swap CotWK with new Dustbrigade operative back ( +2 crit inc / ~+14-15 more damage than CotWK )

With the new DB Chest, I believe we get slightly more damage by dropping the Dchest +ERBP and now casting the Poison buff. Would save a ton of creds too!

I'll do some numbers when I can.
Currently at 39% selfed crit in Cat. Best possible: 39+3+2+2+2+3+1+1=53% - 64% with MoP. 69 % in leet form (not good when cat + MoP is better) Crazy.

[Timba]

Really considering switching to melee, but I'm not 100% sure on it. Got all my melee Alpha symbs ready for it anyway.

Updating for 2% more crit and 20 more damage that we get from the new Apotheosis line, this brings it up to 55% / 66 % crit with MoP in Cat Form.

How would a pure damage setup stack up to the numbers of a crit prioritized setup? Would the normal damage and specials alone (I assume perks are not modified by damage, just AR?) outweigh the crit setup? Don't have comparisons as I don't have many +add damage things available