nerf agent thread nr 9000

[Le-Quack]

its just heartbreaking for me when i play my agent and insta kill a 220 fixer with 5000+ evades in 2-3 seconds without neding to hotswap for sneak attack/dimach

i dont see how it turnd out that agents has 100% cap chanse on evry aimshot they do, there is no random roll into this. the aimshot just cap evrytime no matter what except from 1% of the time wich most be a bugg.
to cap aimshot evry 11 second is powerfull alone, but then we also have the perks that lands on anything.

i did some testing where my agent had 3499 ar 785 of those points was from aao and i were perking 4317 evades.
So.. i just wonder how this still makes sense for the Dev's that you can have a profession that caps aimshots evry 11 sec and have the ability to perk 4300+ evades with 3500 ish attackrate, how does this make sense?

xxxxx hit you for 8703 points of Aimed Shot damage.
xxxxx hit you for 2526 points of Fling Shot damage.
Player xxxxx hit you for 2676 points of poison damage. Critical hit!
You were attacked with nanobots from xxxxx for 3741 points of poison damage.
You were attacked with nanobots from xxxxx for 3795 points of poison damage.
You were attacked with nanobots from xxxxx for 5748 points of poison damage.
You were attacked with nanobots from xxxxx for 6274 points of poison damage.
You were attacked with nanobots from xxxxx for 6765 points of poison damage.

Total dmg 40 228 damage on a player without reflect in around 3-4 seconds.
34 998 damage if you have 13% reflect graft on
28 159 damage if you are lucky to have rrfe on


So how will a evade profession survive this in 3-4 seconds? or more or less any profession?
a gank setup agent use mimic eng+doc usualy meaning you dont have any reflect wich will result in the 40 228 dmg alpha. this takes less than 4 seconds.
if the devs did play the game insted of counting houers before they can go home they would see that this is so damn unbalanced.

but hey my main used to be agent, and i play him evry now and then, i dont realy mind that much to butcher players.. but its not realy fun when you made it this easy

[nanoforcer]

Yes agents are no fun and almost always kill you if they have a few perks up and as, you need to work together to kill them and hope there aren't too many of them...

[Hekthor]

its just heartbreaking for me when i play my agent and insta kill a 220 fixer with 5000+ evades in 2-3 seconds without neding to hotswap for sneak attack/dimach

i dont see how it turnd out that agents has 100% cap chanse on evry aimshot they do, there is no random roll into this. the aimshot just cap evrytime no matter what except from 1% of the time wich most be a bugg.
to cap aimshot evry 11 second is powerfull alone, but then we also have the perks that lands on anything.

i did some testing where my agent had 3499 ar 785 of those points was from aao and i were perking 4317 evades.
So.. i just wonder how this still makes sense for the Dev's that you can have a profession that caps aimshots evry 11 sec and have the ability to perk 4300+ evades with 3500 ish attackrate, how does this make sense?

xxxxx hit you for 8703 points of Aimed Shot damage.
xxxxx hit you for 2526 points of Fling Shot damage.
Player xxxxx hit you for 2676 points of poison damage. Critical hit!
You were attacked with nanobots from xxxxx for 3741 points of poison damage.
You were attacked with nanobots from xxxxx for 3795 points of poison damage.
You were attacked with nanobots from xxxxx for 5748 points of poison damage.
You were attacked with nanobots from xxxxx for 6274 points of poison damage.
You were attacked with nanobots from xxxxx for 6765 points of poison damage.

Total dmg 40 228 damage on a player without reflect in around 3-4 seconds.
34 998 damage if you have 13% reflect graft on
28 159 damage if you are lucky to have rrfe on


So how will a evade profession survive this in 3-4 seconds? or more or less any profession?
a gank setup agent use mimic eng+doc usualy meaning you dont have any reflect wich will result in the 40 228 dmg alpha. this takes less than 4 seconds.
if the devs did play the game insted of counting houers before they can go home they would see that this is so damn unbalanced.

but hey my main used to be agent, and i play him evry now and then, i dont realy mind that much to butcher players.. but its not realy fun when you made it this easy

Lies! The 40k dmg isnt in 3-4 second! Look like snipeshot 1s, concussive Shot 1s, Schadow bulllet 1s and death Strike 2s (only on 50%) and assassinate 2s sum: 7s.

Next is, you dont perk with 3499 AR and 785 AAO, 4317 Evades because you have a 105%/110% def check.

Everyone have aimedshot in PvP, want to talk about the silverback who does 99% Cap as? If you can perk with 3499 AR a fixer then gz, it's a noob.

You are right on dmg amout of perks, the base dmg from Perks should be reduced by 10-20%. Offence and def got already nerfed and Perks are slower since patch from few weeks ago. I don't know why they don't do it.

[Avari]

Lies! The 40k dmg isnt in 3-4 second! Look like snipeshot 1s, concussive Shot 1s, Schadow bulllet 1s and death Strike 2s (only on 50%) and assassinate 2s sum: 7s.

If the alpha goes like the above then you have a 6 second window of taking dmg (first second is execution time and no dmg is dealt) where 3 seconds are spent stunned? I'm not a fan of paper PvP, just a bit curious.

The problem with agents (imho) is not always the alpha, but the fact that they pop out of sneak and there's only a bit of red text in a (very spammed) system chat window to warn you of the incoming alpha. The window of opportunity to defend yourself is very, very small.

[Mountaingoat]

105%/110% versus dodge on agent perks means it is checking dodge + aad. The extra percent only goes to the dodge component of the def check. So for example a target has 2000 dodge and 1000 aad. A 105% checking perk effectively adds 100 dodge skill (2000*105%) making it 2100 dodge + 1000 aad. A 110% checking perk effectively adds 200 dodge (2000*110%) making it 2200 dodge + 1000 aad.

The "attack rating" offensive skill on agent perks means aao gets added twice. So if you have a visual AR of 3499 with 785 aao then your perks have 3499 + 785 aao again for a final perk AR of 4284.

The perks of an agent being so damaging and so easy to land coupled with the absolute best Aimed Shot ability in the game means the fight is over before it begins against most evade professions which primarily depend on evades for damage mitigation. Active evades/defenses are meaningless against one button perk queues, visible target NCU windows, and an agents ability to sit unchallenged/unknown in sneak and wait for their targets defenses to be down with no threat of recourse.

[Hekthor]

105%/110% versus dodge on agent perks means it is checking dodge + aad. The extra percent only goes to the dodge component of the def check. So for example a target has 2000 dodge and 1000 aad. A 105% checking perk effectively adds 100 dodge skill (2000*105%) making it 2100 dodge + 1000 aad. A 110% checking perk effectively adds 200 dodge (2000*110%) making it 2200 dodge + 1000 aad.

The "attack rating" offensive skill on agent perks means aao gets added twice. So if you have a visual AR of 3499 with 785 aao then your perks have 3499 + 785 aao again for a final perk AR of 4284.

The perks of an agent being so damaging and so easy to land coupled with the absolute best Aimed Shot ability in the game means the fight is over before it begins against most evade professions which primarily depend on evades for damage mitigation. Active evades/defenses are meaningless against one button perk queues, visible target NCU windows, and an agents ability to sit unchallenged/unknown in sneak and wait for their targets defenses to be down with no threat of recourse.

The 5 seconds before a duel starts doesn't enough to rise def? Dude... right on Perks but rest its pen and paper pvp.

Aimed shot is Evade able...Engineers, traders, soldiers all they hitting 24/7 11s AS and on agent it's OP?

Buff up Evades in general and stop try to balance a game by mix up general things to specific professions. I can Perk most Fixers with Engineer on amep or a Keeper with also tons of def. Agent doesn't have the IP do skill funny things like SA and tons of other specials without loosing serviceability. Agent is a f*** ganker, GANKER if he ends sneak and can't alpha a target this profession will be useless

[aramsunat]

My main problem with agents is that they have literally no weakness. Every other prof is more or less countered by at least one other prof. Agent is only countered by a better agent.
Agents have huge hp, huge AR, heals, UBT, evades, escape tools, a guaranteed 30% shot, guaranteed crits, and perk damage that would make shades shy. No profession can counter this in open pvp.

I'd either remove the big enf HP buffs from the FP list or make FPed nanos _very_ nano costly (as was originally intended for the profession) so agt cant heal nonstop for infinity

[Avari]

The 5 seconds before a duel starts doesn't enough to rise def?

Duels aren't really the gold standard for PvP balance.

pen and paper pvp.

Pen and paper PvP is when people try make up all kinds of scenarios of how a fight plays out in a theoretically optimised way. Perk defensive checks work the way they work, and those are facts and have nothing to do with thought-up PvP scenarios.

Engineers, traders, soldiers all they hitting 24/7 11s AS and on agent it's OP?

AS by itself is not necesarrily overpowered. Coupled with several high dmg perks, a 3 second stun, sneak and fp doc as per the agent tool set? I'll let others be the judge of that.

Agent is a f*** ganker, GANKER if he ends sneak and can't alpha a target this profession will be useless

Here lies the true problem. Agents balance on a knife's edge between useless and overpowered. The point is that people want counterplay options and currently there are precious few of these.

TL;DR You can't have a profession that takes the majority of players from 100% to 0% in a matter of 6-7 seconds with the push of a single button and infinitisemal counterplay options.

[Le-Quack]

hektor belives his agent ned more love :P
we are realy unfair to him. i heard he couldnt aimshot a engi becose he had blockers, so maybe give the agents a rifle block remover perk

[Lazy]

aao check on perks is silly. it was bad enough that ai perks had them. double aao check needs to be nerfed into the ground imo

[Hekthor]

aao check on perks is silly. it was bad enough that ai perks had them. double aao check needs to be nerfed into the ground imo

If you remove the tons of AAO debuff also,ok.

[Avari]

If you remove the tons of AAO debuff also,ok.

How does this matter if you are in sneak and pop your one button perk queue?

Honest question btw.

[Le-Quack]

aao check on perks is silly. it was bad enough that ai perks had them. double aao check needs to be nerfed into the ground imo

word, this should be removed from the game. no more double aao check on attackrate perks and it would do allot just there.

[aramsunat]

word, this should be removed from the game. no more double aao check on attackrate perks and it would do allot just there.

No it would be terrible.
1. if the perk does not check your preferred weapon you are screwed. Imagine if COLA perks just checked pistol, but not SMG
2. most professions have incredible defenses. just because a single overpowered profession can perk anything does not justify nerfing the offensive capabilities of other professions. In fact this is the reason why pretty much all professions use aimed shot/sneak attack, because otherwise you would have practically zero damage on evaders.

[Oliveerz]

Agents can counter a soldiers only defense, with a silly fp nano that should be engi only. That needs some fixing for sure.

[nanoforcer]

Remove nsd when fp'ing anything else than engi, boom fixed.
Since this is done with other nanos like enf ess etc it should be easy.

[Lazy]

No it would be terrible.1. if the perk does not check your preferred weapon you are screwed. Imagine if COLA perks just checked pistol, but not SMG2. most professions have incredible defenses. just because a single overpowered profession can perk anything does not justify nerfing the offensive capabilities of other professions. In fact this is the reason why pretty much all professions use aimed shot/sneak attack, because otherwise you would have practically zero damage on evaders.

nothing wrong with perks checking attack rating. the problem is that those perks are bugged and check aao twice instead of just once. mr getting nerfed into the ground was a step in the right direction. giving agents a bunch of aaocheck perks was 2 steps back. and it's not just "a profession that can perk anything". look at AR soldiers. 4k+ar selfed and still can't hit the broadside of a barn because they don't have any perks worth landing. the problem is that agents have a 28+k perk apha that they can put into anyone from sneak without MR and without any drawbacks or any danger to themselves. it's 1hb/1he trox enfos doing drops from the roof in bor all over again.

[Le-Quack]

agents were perfectly fine before balance, i never understod why they got changes in the first place

[McKnuckleSamwich]

4k+ar selfed and still can't hit the broadside of a barn because they don't have any perks worth landing.

Wat.

Can you fix the logic of this so I can read it without my brain melting?

[Hekthor]

Remove nsd when fp'ing anything else than engi, boom fixed.
Since this is done with other nanos like enf ess etc it should be easy.

1. Yeah, atomaticly removing Null Space Disruptor if leaving FP-Engineer like Advy auras, Big Enfo Essence
2. Make a Cooldown on Null Space Disruptor like Disruptive Void Projector and Sympathetic Entropy Infusion have it for 60s after Casting so its also quite unbalanced that Engineers can spam it and make soldiers useless.
3. -46 % in general is also quite OP, -25% would fit also...
4. The Perk Check on 100% AR like AR is fine in general, Keeper have it also and noone is talking about OP state of a Keeper, the problem is the high Perk dmg by itself.
You can trust me in this direction or doing more senseless pen an paper PvP without any result. 10% less Base dmg on Perk would make a huge difference.
5. Agent have no real nemesis Profession because of Null Space Disruptor, if you remove the using from Null Space Disruptor by auto. cancel if leaving the FP then Agent losing Null Space Disruptor immunity and its easy for Engineer to kick and Agent to the ground.
6. Also a Focus should be on 200er PvP, Perks like Shadowbullet need to be moved to 201+