STOP reselers

[rybycka]

please stop resealers that pigs ruining prices there is nonsens dumping up BO becouse they have nonsens SO. set on GMI especialy for grace something like if u buy it on GMI u cant sell it u have to use.


im very curious whhom u will be seeling it if all quit u can sell it each other and crying why is all gone and u cant play and buying your stuff becouse u are lazy

[Hekthor]

please stop resealers that pigs ruining prices there is nonsens dumping up BO becouse they have nonsens SO. set on GMI especialy for grace something like if u buy it on GMI u cant sell it u have to use.


im very curious whhom u will be seeling it if all quit u can sell it each other and crying why is all gone and u cant play and buying your stuff becouse u are lazy

Disable Buy Orders and only allow sell orders like every other action house...
Maybe remake buyorders to bid selling.

Problem is basicly that you can control supply and Demant. With enough money you can artificially rise the selling price and set a high buy order price (demand).

[rybycka]

yea i know and this is happening if u look to GMI bes solutin whould be for grace set that it can be sold only once

[Awikun]

Agreed 100%
Some moron who probably got tons of exploited credits is having mutiple buyorders and sell orders for GRACEs with difference varying from 500m to 1b credits ...

[Caloss2]

A lot of the cheaper offers for grace are a way for people to store credits.

[Avari]

Having both buy and sell orders is a normal market function that I'm not sure should be removed. Personally, I've saved hundreds of millions of credits by putting in a buy order and waiting a day or two instead of taking the cheapest sell order.

As for GRACE, an exception could be made maybe. I'll repeat what I said in another thread: Jacking up prices in itself is not desirable. You want to get as large a spread between buy/sell prices as possible. If it's 200m/300m or 4.1b/4.2b doesn't matter. You take home 100m on both deals. With lower prices you'll have larger activity in the marked and thus more opportunities to profit, so I'm not sure the motive behind the high GRACE prices is purely to earn credits.

The notion that someone exploits credits, but is still trying to corner the market for GRACE to earn credits seems contradictory btw.

[Caloss2]

Having both buy and sell orders is a normal market function that I'm not sure should be removed. Personally, I've saved hundreds of millions of credits by putting in a buy order and waiting a day or two instead of taking the cheapest sell order.

As for GRACE, an exception could be made maybe. I'll repeat what I said in another thread: Jacking up prices in itself is not desirable. You want to get as large a spread between buy/sell prices as possible. If it's 200m/300m or 4.1b/4.2b doesn't matter. You take home 100m on both deals. With lower prices you'll have larger activity in the marked and thus more opportunities to profit, so I'm not sure the motive behind the high GRACE prices is purely to earn credits.

The notion that someone exploits credits, but is still trying to corner the market for GRACE to earn credits seems contradictory btw.

Unless, they are Egpal or similar, inflating the price of grace so they can sell more of their creds for real money.

[rybycka]

i dont expect that i buy grace for 400m like year before but u can see how resealers pushing up price if they have grace for sale and down if not. its not about storing credz its about earning.if its cheapest buy order 2,5b every normal player will add BO with minimal bid 1m or something like that then come resealer and hi bid 200 or 300m and in same time will add SO fo 4b + anytime if someone bit more on BO he will bit another 100m. + almost all resealers are some unknown alts they dont doing with mains.

in my eyes it is only about earning

[Hekthor]

Having both buy and sell orders is a normal market function that I'm not sure should be removed. Personally, I've saved hundreds of millions of credits by putting in a buy order and waiting a day or two instead of taking the cheapest sell order.

As for GRACE, an exception could be made maybe. I'll repeat what I said in another thread: Jacking up prices in itself is not desirable. You want to get as large a spread between buy/sell prices as possible. If it's 200m/300m or 4.1b/4.2b doesn't matter. You take home 100m on both deals. With lower prices you'll have larger activity in the marked and thus more opportunities to profit, so I'm not sure the motive behind the high GRACE prices is purely to earn credits.

The notion that someone exploits credits, but is still trying to corner the market for GRACE to earn credits seems contradictory btw.

The point is:

We have here a smal economy with no interest and homogen Items. There doesnt existing substitutes. There is only one trading place (no Face2Face). You can control the whole market for GRACE with around 60b. Compare the real ecenomy: You cant stand there and say "Hey iam buying Coke for 10 $ each liter and sell them for 15$" because there are a to big supply and a company who can produce it cheaper. But in Anarchy online GRACE isnt a product to "produce" the generation of a GRACE cost 15$ for everyone and the ppl who buying GRACE for 15$ to put it in GMI are less.

Remeber the natural sellings from around 500 GRACE each month past year with more server activity. So the actual 1300 selling each month is from reselling.

It works like this:

Buy all Sellorders (remember there are a very smal groupe of ppl who buing grace for $ and sell them for Credz) and place a huge Buyorder price.
Result: PPL who want to sell Grace would never sell it lower than ceapest buyorder. So the buyorders are the lower price limit witch is easy to set with enough creds. (Dont work on real markets bcause there are existing substitutes with same or close characteristics of the "item" and thats the reason for a very very big supply.)

second and biggest point is MMOGA and Co.

4b for 9,49 $ ? And this is the main problem. What you see actualy is a price adaptation to the MMOGA price level.

[Avari]

[...]

We can discuss market mechanisms from now and until eternity. I'm not sure I understood half of what you said or believe that the GRACE market can be "controlled" with just 60b. That's about 15-20 GRACE atm?

I'd support a model where GRACE can only be sold once ie. no re-selling. However, let's be honest and admit that within 2-3 months someone will have found a way to exploit around it.

Unless, they are Egpal or similar, inflating the price of grace so they can sell more of their creds for real money.

I'd still argue that re-sellers benefit from lower prices on GRACE as it would create higher activity in the market. See my previous post about profit being the spread in prices and not the price itself. To earn credits from reselling you still need buyers and with a high price you get fewer buyers. There's no way in hell I'd be able to sustain my accounts by earning credits to buy GRACE with the current prices. If they were 300m a pop like this Summer then maybe I'd go for it once in a while, but these days I'd have to farm credits during my entire online time to keep up.

[rybycka]

We can discuss market mechanisms from now and until eternity. I'm not sure I understood half of what you said or believe that the GRACE market can be "controlled" with just 60b. That's about 15-20 GRACE atm?

I'd support a model where GRACE can only be sold once ie. no re-selling. However, let's be honest and admit that within 2-3 months someone will have found a way to exploit around it.


I'd still argue that re-sellers benefit from lower prices on GRACE as it would create higher activity in the market. See my previous post about profit being the spread in prices and not the price itself. To earn credits from reselling you still need buyers and with a high price you get fewer buyers. There's no way in hell I'd be able to sustain my accounts by earning credits to buy GRACE with the current prices. If they were 300m a pop like this Summer then maybe I'd go for it once in a while, but these days I'd have to farm credits during my entire online time to keep up.

100% agree

[aramsunat]

Supply and demand. As long as there is demand there will be supply. As long as people are willing to pay IRL money for ingame credz, the sellers will remain.
Blame the players for being lazy ass and buying.

As for GRACE prices... its really simple

Fact 1: GRACE is THE most valuable item ingame (inherent value not just market value). Imo 300m for a GRACE was waaaaay underpriced. (6b is way too high too, I calculated the equilibrium price at about 2-3b)
Fact 2: There are some players with vast amounts of cred reserves (some 100% legit, some not)
Fact 3: GRACE is scarce

connect the dots... as long as there will be at least one player willing to pay 3b+ or so for a GRACE then the price will remain crazy high.
Blame those who are willing to pay, and do in fact pay.

[Lazy]

personally i think funcom is putting grace on the gmi for those silly prices to drain sploited creds from the market.

[aramsunat]

personally i think funcom is putting grace on the gmi for those silly prices to drain sploited creds from the market.

I wish this was true.

[Awikun]

Buying GRACE from funcom for 15$ and selling it ingame for credits is the legitimate way of buying credits.

The real problem is that credit sellers sell 1b credits for 3$.
So from economical point of view anybody who want to buy some credits in a legitimate way would have to sell GRACE for 5b.
Some time ago credit sellers were selling 1b for 10$ and at that time GRACE average price was around 1.5b.
Do you see the pattern here?

GMI hack and sploited credits, which somehow found its way to credit sellers is what caused increase of GRACE prices.
I even start to believe that at least some of those GRACES on GMI are put by funcom before they realise that there are some players who will quit if they are not able to extend their game time with GRACEs and population of AO is already aproaching a point where few hudreds quitting ppl could mean death of AO.

[Caloss2]

Buying GRACE from funcom for 15$ and selling it ingame for credits is the legitimate way of buying credits.

The real problem is that credit sellers sell 1b credits for 3$.
So from economical point of view anybody who want to buy some credits in a legitimate way would have to sell GRACE for 5b.
Some time ago credit sellers were selling 1b for 10$ and at that time GRACE average price was around 1.5b.
Do you see the pattern here?

Exactly what I was saying though not directly.

[PigBrother]

+1

stop reselers !!

[Awikun]

I would really like to know how many GRACE funcom sold last month ???

When I saw in GMI statistics number of GRACE sold last month I thought (for a moment) hey, its not bad look like more and more ppl are playing AO again.
But then I realized that in fact it only shows that more morons are speculating the market with lot of BO and SO with high spread just to earn credits and rip off more honest players ...