Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Some thoughts on upgraded RK weapons-XXX

  1. #1

    Some thoughts on upgraded RK weapons-XXX

    Hello!
    I was testing different setups with upgraded ranged RK weapons-XXX on my lvl 200 froob soldier. The only weapon line I've found useful was 1-handed ranged energy due to low requirements for capping burst (900) and fling shot (900). I was able to equip ql 287 El Diablo C05 and got some decent dmg output (ask Murmandramas ingame if interested). Well, variety of upgrader RE weapons is poor - only 3 different 1-handed guns plus 3 different 2-handed guns which are worse than each 1-handed RE. I don't really get the logic why 2-handed upgraded RE weapons require so much more burst (1525) and fling shot (1700) for the cap - it's unfroobable and noone with at least SL expansion will deal with upgraded RK weapons.

    Pistols: there are lots of upgraded RK pistols-XXX, but due to only one special available (fling shot - cap at 900) they are useful only for lvling at low lvls. For the endgame this is not an option.

    Assault rifles: they've got 2 specials: burst (1675) and full auto (2630) both impossible to cap plus weapon speed itself 1.8/1.8 is terrible for assault rifle. Plus full auto shiny cluster and assault shiny cluster ocupy the same spot in implant. I've even tried Subturbine C0C on my paid lvl 203 soldier and was wery disappointed.

    SMGs: like pistols upgraded SMGs got only one special (burst) whichs is much hadred to cap than with Blackbirds and noone except fixers and soldiers will chose SMG as primary weapon. Like RE 1-handed SMGs have low burst requirements (1000) for cap than 2-handed (1375). And it gets more complicated because Shiny SMG cluster and Shiny Burst cluster ocupy the same spot in the implant.

    Rifles: well, upgraded riflis got nice regular dmg plus some of them have stunproc (very low trigger chance) but requirements to cap aimed shot are impossible (2267).

    Bows: Upgraded bows got lower aimed shot cap requirements than rifles (2007) but nobody uses bow as the main weapon on RK due to lack of bow buffing nanos and gears. Plus upgraded bows are useles for hot-swap in pvp due to high requirements.

    Shotguns/grenades: these 2 types of upgraded RK weapons are quite similar and useles. Both have only 1 imposible to cap special - flingshot (1700 for shotguns and 2820 for grenades). RK traders do not have perks which forces them to use shotguns (ma-trader got much better dmg output for example)

    In total upgraded RE ODs all other upgraded weapon types because of fast specials.

    My suggestion is to merge upgrade types between weapons: for example availability of SMGs/Pistols/REs-C05 (burst + fling shot) or Pistols-C02 (aimed shot), SMGs-C0C, Shotguns-C04 (burst). Also special attacks cap requirements should be lowered to RK reality.
    Weapon choice for making them upgradable is quite weired in my opinion because in general most of them are pretty much the same except the looks (for example a bunch of C01 pistols with proj dmg type). On the other hand there are lots of other awesome/unusual weapons which deserv to be xxx-upgradable like IMI-Tellus TT (and all other weps crafted from Sealed Weapon Receptacles), Inner Circle Strategic Flamer, Pain/Reign of Patricia, Nophex Plasma Destroyer, Prelude to Chaos and other RK weapons wich are hard to get. Hardly obtainable RK weapons with some XXX-upgraiding could be a good endgame weapons for TL6 with ~1350-1400 weapon skill requirements, QL special and Nodrop flag.

  2. #2
    TL;DR: For froobs the use-case scenarios and their requirements vary wildly. A weapon which is good for soloing on RK can be hideous for raiding (vs. high ACs) and maybe average for PvP. Also, these weapons can be used in the full QL range. A proper analysis has to include all that. Aside of that, having a more free-form mix'n'match of weapons and their specials (similar to Kyr'Ozch AI weapons) would be a nice addition. Maybe even damage type modifications could be added.



    The upgraded RK weapons used to be different, with higher requirements, but also different min and max damage (1), and usual availability only up to QL200 because you had to make them from scratch using the actual RK weapons as a base (hence the QL200 limit). Now you can buy the almost fully upgraded versions in all QLs ranging from low QLs up to QL300 in neutral shops (2). Capping specials is nice, but there are circumstances where other weapon properties may have higher impact on your overall damage output (3) (1).

    (1) I used QL184 Stabbers on my piercing enfo, now she is using a QL278 in one hand, and is facing another retwink to get another high QL of these stabbers on (wanted the other hand to be something I can replace, but barely doing it, anyway). The QL184 ones were 141-172(172), now they are 78-233(172) with a lot lower requirements. QL300 ones are 124-372(272) vs. previously 224-272(272) with same MM req, but lower weapon skill requirements. Back then they came only up to QL200, so 152-185(185) was the actual limit. If you check the averaged damage of the QL300 versions, its the same (248 vs. 248), QL300 new vs. QL200 old is 248 vs. 168.5. Min damage on the old QL200 was still higher than on the QL300 now (see (3) for more on that).

    (2) Compared to other RK options these are fast, have decent enough damage, and even with these wrecked neutral shop terminal price multiplicators the prices are still ok-ish. Upgrading them to the final version is easy, too (most don't know about it, unfortunately, even though the weapon information text mentions it in a way). That makes these upgraded weapons an easy to go to weapon option, especially for beginners, who face a steep learning curve. Also, they are usually fast weapons in terms of attack/recharge, which always was an issue at low levels with certain oldschool RK weapons. So it is not only about top QLs, but if you wanna mess with these weapons, you have to look into the entire QL range.

    (3) It splits into 2 parts: Soloing/levelling and raiding.

    Soloing is usually done vs. normal RK mobs, which also includes all forms of levelling, be it solo or in a team. Mob ACs usually go up to maybe 5-6k on certain bot type mobs, enfos in mission places and such, depending on the type of mob and damage type of your weapons, maybe a bit higher, but often less than that. Oldschool RK weapons usually employ a very low min damage, but also relatively high max damage, so with these mob ACs the overall damage is still pretty good (relatively).

    Raiding is a whole another story, because the RK bosses got changed to the SL reality at some point, which includes super-high ACs. You will also need high AR (4) for higher hit chance on these guys, which includes that your specials have a good chance of failing/missing entirely. Generally you want to have a high min damage for these scenarios to make sure that if you hit, your damage is as high as possible. Also, contrary you especially soloing, you can run at full agg if the weapons require that; in a soloing context you'd like to be at the most defensive setting your inits and weapon(s) allow you to.

    If you do a quick estimation of the damage per minute (roughly), you get with 2x QL300 upgraded RE weapon 20*(80+80) {20 normal hits with each} + 8*80 {8 fling shots} + 6*80*3 { 6 bursts } = 5280, assuming all min damage, perfect special usage, no crits and every bullet hits, ignoring partial special damage for completely averaged damage per minute, 900 fling, 900 burst, 900 FA. With the compact Skawts you get 20*(150+150) + 3*150*3 = 7350, where you don't cap the Burst, but yield decidedly higher damage anyway. The single wield Skawt does 30*200 + 2*200*3 + FA = 7200 + FA damage (>10k damage). Actual damage calcs might change the picture somewhat, but such a big difference won't disappear. Read: Weapon evaluation especially for froobs is not exactly easy, and capping specials is just one of the many variables you have to include there. That also sheds a new light on the impact of the changes done to the upgraded RK weapons (see (1)).

    (4) Ranged Energy as well as Melee Energy share a common trait: They require the shiny head cluster, which also carries all the shiny nanoskill clusters. That is a big hit to the nanoskill setup, so you either have to go with lower weapon skill or lower nanoskills, not being able to self a number of nanos you'd be able to cast otherwise. For soloing it doesn't matter that much (especially because you will be above the 1k AR, lowering the overall impact of damage increase), but for raids a lower AR will impact your damage; in return you are more likely to have some kind of nanoskill buffage available for better buff casting, too.


    Read: The analysis of all things damage is a wee bit more complicated. That aside, having more flexibility with available specials similar to the Kyr'Ozch weapons would be a nice addition.

  3. #3
    add to that , that the nanos LR Energy Weapon Expertise and Grenade Expertise which both stacks with the composit nanos those are still around for those that had uploaded , but as they only run 30min its something the fewest RE uses will have, a 200 fixer with RE for skawn will have a ar in the 920-940 ranged self buff but the fullauto will be 1000+, so in a raid scenarior you will have trouble hitting the mobs .

  4. #4
    I was under the impression that these weapons were supposed to be decent stopgaps between getting better/rarer weapons, at varying levels. A froob just starting out wouldn't instantly have access to some of their better weapons (though now that they can use the illegally modified ofab weaps, it's easier starting off) and would need some shop weapons for being able to do solo/team mishes/instances, until they could run TOTW/SoM/Biomare/etc to get weapons that would actually be good for boss mobs and whatnot. Froobs now have things like Skawts Plasma emitter, which is a crazy good froob weapon, or classic weapons like Blackbirds, Chirops, IS weapons, and so on. There's also still the ability of froobs to be able to use turn spirit weapons at endgame, so really the typed rk weapons really are just stopgaps/fillers.

  5. #5
    I have to say these weapons after the revamps are not bad at all. A tl6 froob trader can equip a ql 300 shotgun without too much hassle, and these are the best froob friendly shotguns the game can offer (somewhat debatable though, I havent run tests, but they appear to be better than the turn spirit shotguns, especially at full def)
    They are also the best rifles for agents in full def.

    Overall I think they are quite decent and they were never meant to outperform the prof locked weapons. While a bit of tweaking would be welcome, I'd say they are fine as they are
    * Cryborg Nano-Technician - Have a shoulder to cry on!
    Aramlash Fixer - Can't catch me!
    Aramsunat Engineer - 4 Blockers of the Apocalypse


    Devil Inside

  6. #6
    Consider how pretty some are... I would love to see Xan variants for endgame.. Just keeping the models.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    Consider how pretty some are... I would love to see Xan variants for endgame.. Just keeping the models.
    Now that inspect can't be disabled, I would love for them to implement social weapons, so we could use other weapon models for different weapons. It may have to be limited to the required weapon type, as well as you shouldn't be able to see something silly like dual wielded assault rifles, but I would love to be able to have sleek masters on my fix at endgame, with the stats of envy.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •