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Thread: Funcom [should] Include SL to Basegame for Steam Release

  1. #1

    Funcom [should] Include SL to Basegame for Steam Release

    We all heard this recommendation before, and couldn't interest FC. Can we, as a community, try to show FC, how much potential this idea has by brainstorming on the advantages/disadvantages of such recommendation once more?

    Below is a crosspost from AO reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/anarchyonli...eam_release/);

    We all know that steam release will draw new players in. May it be one or thousands, there will be new people. We all want those new people to stay.
    AO is an old game, especially the froob experience is dated.

    Yes, froob experience is very unique, very different than every other MMO, and it must stay. But, those MMO people whom has never played AO are probably interested in a wow-like progression system therefore didn't try/like AO. Shadowlands expansion has spectacular progression, it must be added to the basegame for the release to pull people of different backgrounds in. The progression between maps, quest lines, graphics, style are very unique and can addict people for a long while.

    The new-new player experience was also built with progression in core. It would be off putting for a new player to move from progression-core content to sandbox-core content through a teleporter. It is also worth noting that such player will see it as a downgrade of graphics(and style) when moving from new player experience - to froob AO world.

    Funcom please bring the SLoob experience back, or bake SL into the basegame(for limited time?) or make GMI-buyable SLoob tokens so people can gift them to newbies or anything to incorporate SL into the basegame. We all know how helpful the community is, and this can obviously be done by the community.

    I understand that AI, LE expansions are luxury. They are not required to live the AO experience. However SL is core to the game, it is not healthy to separate the new players from %90 of content(and players), which are valid today.

    As every other one of you, I would LOVE to play AO as if it is 2007 again. The steam release can help with that if we try. Those people who are more vocal about your opinions, please make sure your ideas to help the game are seen on forums.
    Last edited by Odonoptera; Jan 4th, 2017 at 17:16:07. Reason: Edited title for clarity; this is feedback, not fact

  2. #2
    This has been discussed a good bit. I think a better idea may be to make it a one-time payment to upgrade to SL, but not incur a recurring subscription. Make it 20-30 bucks. That way, there's still a difference between "true froob" and "sloob" accounts.
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  3. #3
    It's also worth looking at what kind of players Steam release will attract.

    If we're assuming it attracts players who try for free, but are willing to pay monthly if they like it, launching only with Froob may work.

    These days though, it might be more likely to attract the "pay once" crowd. They would probably pay a small sum for SL if they like the Froob game. Someone who levels to 220 and really gets into the game, might then be more likely to pay a sub for AI, LE and Xan to enjoy all of AO.
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  4. #4
    The general consensus on Reddit discussion seem to be towards avoiding any SL+froob mixture.

    Such change would demotivate people from having paid accounts, since the core game is based on SL.
    The SLoob experience can be proposed in an alternative and limited(no symbs/limited perks/limited map) way, however this is pointless.

    New users who make it past the new user experience will not drop the game just because the froob experience is limited. For people who are interested, there are many things to work on as a froob, the subway with the recent weapon changes are great enough. For those who do not like the game, showing different maps/progression will not change anything because the game mechanics are more or less the same.

  5. #5
    They could make SL a payable amount depending on:

    1. The account needs to have at least 1 level 200 character.
    2. The account needs to have at least X amount of hours of online time.

    Make it possible for those two requirements to be met before they are allowed to buy Shadowlands at a flat fee.
    Could even put in another clause that needs to meet how many characters they've tried... just shooting ideas here.

    As it stands, we're like TF2: it's free! But you pay a few bucks and unlock everything that normal people do.
    Except with AO, you gotta play a bit to actually be able to unlock the payable part, see if it's worth your time.
    Yes, it's possible to just buy the heckler juice and then pay the fee for SL, but that means FC just gets more money for their time.
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  6. #6
    How about just fully opening SL for froobs but keep the lvl 200 max? That would help a lot with the most problematic leveling ranges and still maintain incentive for them to sub.

    On top of that they should finally fix Penumbra (and adonis) missions so that the reward is in line with the difficulty and vice versa. At the moment easy Pen mission pulled by a 210 gives a lousy reward but can be harder than 220 inf easy because of the "spider" type sided mobs in them (clan side, don't know what the equivalent is for omni's). Maybe make a lvl 210 Pen Easy/Med/Hard mission have like 80% of 220 Inf Easy/Med/Hard and Max level Ado mission 80% of Pen mission or something like that.

    And while doing that they should also change all the normal SL missions so that the level of the puller doesn't affect the reward or the difficulty. For example any level character that can pull an inf mission would always get the same mission and reward that a level 220 puller currently gets. Same for Penumbra and Adonis. Every char able to pull a mission in the zone should always get the max level Easy/Med/Hard mission.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoapTarder View Post
    its funny how AO requires so much grinding and effort to make any progress, both ingame and in Development

  7. #7
    i logged in just to share my support for giving froobs SL access.

    Below is copy/paste of my post in that reddit thread.

    opening up SL content to players for free still leaves plenty power gap between sloob and full expansions.

    ____

    SL is the part of the game that will get people into the game long term which is what could encourage them to buy expansions. opening up SL access is great for al current palyers too.. think about the population.

    +1 for SL access to froobs imo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuisinartBlade View Post
    to be fair, 2.8k ar is enough to perk anyone except fixers, mas, advs, shades, nt's that blinded you, shield mps, bow mps that landed dazzle, def docs, crats, or marinesold

    so all in all it's a fairly viable setup

  8. #8

  9. #9
    Bad idea, the core players that pay to keep the lights on would have less reason to continue paying when they all have at least 1 froob account that they could transfer all their credits and yes drop items to and continue playing for free.

    You have to be realistic here, sure AO would gain a few hundred more new players, maybe even a thousand. But after about 2-3 months they would all flock to the next new game. AO has been kept alive on life support by the long term paying player base. Not new subscriptions. If you make SL free the ratio of 2 paid accounts + 1 froob account per veteran player would flip flop over night. I personally would instantly flip to only 1 pay account (my main) and have 2 sloob accounts for support. Many players would quite possibly drop their pay accounts all together, especially if they dont have a single 220.

    Then you have the actual froob community of players. If they haven't switched to paid after 15+ years of AO why the heck would they start paying for AO once you give them SL for free??? SMH
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  10. #10
    I agree that froobs should get access to SL, considering how the AO playerbase works there will be slim to no difference in the players who go sloob or full expansion.
    SL is indeed the core experience of Anarchy Online, playing it as a froob leaves you alone most of the time and will scare a lot of players away.


    Some benefits of doing this:
    - More players in SL will increase activity in all zones. Good thing for everyone!
    - Froobs will get a decent way to level up. Considering how dead Rubi-Ka is after ToTW it's not a bad thing.
    - Froobs will be able to put up more of a fight in the battlestations. Maybe even increasing the activity over several ranges there.
    - Froobs will be able to put up more of a fight during tower wars.
    - Increases the experience of the game by a lot in the state it is today, this will make players stay for longer without a doubt.

    Sorry to say, but AO is driven by a very elitism playerbase, most players will continue to pay for their fully upgraded accounts because those extra stats do matter a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Then you have the actual froob community of players. If they haven't switched to paid after 15+ years of AO why the heck would they start paying for AO once you give them SL for free??? SMH
    Invalid argument, since it neither adds or decreases the amount of funds Funcom gets from them. It only increases the amount of players you can meet up with in SL. Which in turn brings more life to the game overall
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  11. #11
    It's been discussed to death over the years. The simplest problem with it, that few ever address when suggesting it, is that this will ultimately lose FC money. The only theoretical path to earning more would be in the suggestion that leveling is a more enjoyable experience with SL included, but that's an intangible. You cannot assess how valuable the theoretical increase in subs is from SL, you can on the other hand more reasonably assume that the average player with multiple accounts will drop at least 1 paid account in exchange for a SL account. I certainly would.

    Beyond that SL is the core experience, as many have said, and something to consider is the process by which AO gets new subs. The player-base isn't incredibly consistent year-in, year-out. People come and go frequently. This suggests another potential problem - would the average returning player opt to subscribe when they could, instead, play all of SL for free? During the period of leveling they can make the determination if they want to sub in the coming months and in the immediate they get to enjoy the game with the bulk of relevant leveling content.

    The only way I personally see Sloob accounts being a realistic and good suggestion is if they are heavily limited. Access to SL zones, for example, but not SL gear. Access to a certain number of perks, but not all of them. Limited to Nascence and Elysium. All of this would enrich the froob experience without drawing enough of the temptation away from paid experience to justify fewer subs. Something people are quick to neglect - subscriptions are a concern for us all. Even 100 fewer subs a month could spell disaster for the game. AO runs because it is still perceived as profitable enough to do so; the moment that changes FC may reconsider given their delicate financial situation.

    Example of theoretical limitations...

    • Access to 6 perk points
    • Access to Nascence & Elysium
    • Access to Tier 1 & SL Weapons QL 100 and below
    • No access to Shade or Keeper
    • Access to specialization 1
    • No increased account access (Mail/GMI)
    Last edited by Lenaro; Jan 5th, 2017 at 01:18:40.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Bad idea, the core players that pay to keep the lights on would have less reason to continue paying when they all have at least 1 froob account that they could transfer all their credits and yes drop items to and continue playing for free.
    This is exactly why i suggested keeping the max level for free accounts at 200. Opening SL to froobs but keeping the max level still at 200 would increase the population on the most problematic level range between 170-200. It would give them some new toys to play with but they'd still need to sub up if they want to continue above 200.

    If some other limitations are needed i think the best would be not to allow free accounts to use perks. They should be able to use SL weapons and gear though. But limiting max level to 200 and denying the use of perks would definitely prevent people going from paid to free and still provide a wider playerbase for the leveling areas.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoapTarder View Post
    its funny how AO requires so much grinding and effort to make any progress, both ingame and in Development

  13. #13
    I have been saying this for years.
    It is pretty simple to keep a distinction between Froob/Sloob and paid players.

    Free accounts still get no AI XP, limited to level 200 and the account is tagged as a free account.
    For SL access simply allow Free accounts into SL from the beginning but they can not progress to Adonis while tagged as a free account.

    This gives them plenty of access to SL, but to progress further they simply need to subscribe, this still allows plenty of heck bashing, SL hunting etc without impacting the end game or luxury of paid accounts.

  14. #14
    In a world of FTP/P2W games, there's no way you can conquer new customers with a subscription game. AO is OLD, its newest content is YEARS old, it failed the very day it was launched, and had thousands other opportunities to fail, so it's not aimed at being succesful now, whatever you do. FC suxx, and whatever FC does will make customers leave. And AO will eventually turn off. There were tons of us with the free month, and they vanished when the game was paying again. Ask you, why ?

    The more you give, the more players we shall have. The more players, the more will to keep up with higher content and other players, so the more potential customers for farmers, the more paying accounts (because they ARE the economy right now). AO won't have a *large* playerbase, but some are still willing to put money into it, if FC was to sell legit stuff in the Shop. Sexiest girls are the ones who show little, but enough, and this little is promising, other than that they're just... girls. Make full SL baseline, and you'll get a larger playerbase, whatever, so older players might stay/come back, new players might stay and invest. Because LOTS of people left when their friends left, and LOTS would stay another month, or two, or more, if they knew their old full-exp-so-multi-15-bucks-a-month subscribing friends would. And, well, the more preys for MBers, so they might stay too ?

    SL content in itself suxx, but it could be an incentive for some cashing, like buying access to Xpacks when you know what perks are and you want to make something out of this crappy Beast weapon, compete in pvp, benefit from researches. And it could break the wall between the froob community, who needs nothing more to prosper, and the paying people. If they gain access to SL, it makes more people to play with, since apart dailies no paying player would roam on RK. Benefit. And if some of them is enlightened with what Xpacks bring, they shall invest. Benefit.

    Just sell shade and keeper (and buff keeper...), all contents for 5 to 10 bucks, you'll make cash just buy keeping AO alive anyway, because we LOVE AO and don't want it to die, and a confident customer will be even more reluctant to invest regular cash - instead of feeling betrayed. Better have 5 bucks in your pocket than 0, isn't it ?

    Of course some troll might argue it would be unfair because they paid full price blah blah blaaaah, but they're professionnal crybabies, and in the end they might PLAY because the game is active instead of lurking here =) Benefit !

    Well, it's quite useless to discuss things here anyway, FC doesn't read, care, and would rather die than doing anything clever, even the opposite when it's about pleasing (and changing people into) customers ^^
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Rurounin View Post
    Invalid argument, since it neither adds or decreases the amount of funds Funcom gets from them. It only increases the amount of players you can meet up with in SL. Which in turn brings more life to the game overall
    Actually its the MOST valid argument. But beside that money making point, let me give you a simple scenario. Lets say a player has 2 paid accounts and 1 froob (I actually have 3). The main account is always on, and the extra paid account are literally buff totems/support for the main account. Why would a player continue to pay for the extra accounts when they can drop down to 1 pay account and still have the buff totem toons in SL for dyna bosses, quests, catacombs, pearls, and pocket bosses etc etc? That makes absolutely NO sense. Within 24hours the amount of paid subscriptions would drop by 25% if not 50%.

    Im sure you guys have great intentions and not just selfish reasons to play in SL for free, but try to look at the bigger picture. Sure there would be more players in SL, because everyone would start to power lvl their buff toon froob accounts, but what motivation is there for people to PAY more money to keep the lights on? What motivation is there to keep multiple paid accounts? AI? Xan? Item shop and GMI? Seriously??? This is just plain silly. lol

    Truth be told I personally only need 1 paid acount with all the extra toon slots i bought with membership rewards I have every prof on 1 account, and would only need a sloob account for some OSB. If i had SL for free on froob account I would never re-activate or pay for a second and third pay account. I would be perfectly fine with a 200 sloob MP on follow with heal pet, or 200 crat for speeches, or even an advy for morph buffs. Would make it extremely easy to solo anything almost anything in SL.

    What this thread is suggesting is for players to be able to multibox pande solo with FREE accounts. Oh wait, you didnt think that far ahead? Well news flash thats what would happen.
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  16. #16
    sometimes i feel u just argue just to argue psikie. there is no bigger picture of letting froob have shadowlands.
    to not get alien perks/items/research/ xan uppgrades says enough.

    a irl friend of me tried to enter ao for the first time last night, he didnt realy know what to do after subway, there is litterly to much running to places where there is no guide ingame for you.
    in shadowlands you can just level your way deeper and deeper into the playfields.
    Last edited by Le-Quack; Jan 5th, 2017 at 20:18:46.

  17. #17
    remember funcom experimented with $5 sloob accounts for a while. the fact that they collected data and then stopped offering those would seem to suggest that even at $5 it eroded the full subscriptions enough to be cancelled as an option. At free, it would HEAVILY erode their pay base. capping at 200 might moderate it some but it would still be a negative, and for what gains? new players probably don't base their decision on committing to the game on whether SL is free or not, they will base it much more on their initial experience probably through arete landing etc.

    I think if free sloob is to be possible it would have to be super limited to not erode the pay base. Like sloob ql up to level 20, nascene only, etc, in which case it makes it feel more artificially restricting. froob is just nice and clear cut and doesn't feel stingy. Also at that limited point, most of you advocating for it would no longer be interested.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Keepbrave View Post
    I have been saying this for years.
    It is pretty simple to keep a distinction between Froob/Sloob and paid players.

    Free accounts still get no AI XP, limited to level 200 and the account is tagged as a free account.
    For SL access simply allow Free accounts into SL from the beginning but they can not progress to Adonis while tagged as a free account.

    This gives them plenty of access to SL, but to progress further they simply need to subscribe, this still allows plenty of heck bashing, SL hunting etc without impacting the end game or luxury of paid accounts.
    If the "froobs" were limited to only nasc and ely, it wouldn't help the playerbase as a whole one single bit. In my opinion They should get access to all SL zones and instances, all SL weapons and gear but keep the lvl200 maximum and get no access to any perks. That way there would be a lot more players to level with in the problematic level ranges around 130 to 200 (which the reck dailies fixed already a bit for the 130 - 170 part).

    Quote Originally Posted by semisentient View Post
    remember funcom experimented with $5 sloob accounts for a while. the fact that they collected data and then stopped offering those would seem to suggest that even at $5 it eroded the full subscriptions enough to be cancelled as an option. At free, it would HEAVILY erode their pay base. capping at 200 might moderate it some but it would still be a negative, and for what gains? new players probably don't base their decision on committing to the game on whether SL is free or not, they will base it much more on their initial experience probably through arete landing etc.
    I think the reason they stopped offering the Sloob accounts was that there was way too few people actually using them. At least i remember the game director at the time saying something like that when that option was removed.

    I think if free sloob is to be possible it would have to be super limited to not erode the pay base. Like sloob ql up to level 20, nascene only, etc, in which case it makes it feel more artificially restricting. froob is just nice and clear cut and doesn't feel stingy. Also at that limited point, most of you advocating for it would no longer be interested.
    Like i said above, this again would do nothing to help the leveling experience as a whole. Limiting to level 200 with no perks is enough of a hindrance to keep people from going from paid to froob. In fact since you cant merge accounts anymore and can't tranfer toons to unmerged accounts, I don't see the masses ever switching to froob from paid because it effectively means re-rolling and leveling every character again. And even now you can do buff and utility toons as froobs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoapTarder View Post
    its funny how AO requires so much grinding and effort to make any progress, both ingame and in Development

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Truth be told I personally only need 1 paid acount with all the extra toon slots i bought with membership rewards I have every prof on 1 account, and would only need a sloob account for some OSB. If i had SL for free on froob account I would never re-activate or pay for a second and third pay account. I would be perfectly fine with a 200 sloob MP on follow with heal pet, or 200 crat for speeches, or even an advy for morph buffs. Would make it extremely easy to solo anything almost anything in SL.

    What this thread is suggesting is for players to be able to multibox pande solo with FREE accounts. Oh wait, you didnt think that far ahead? Well news flash thats what would happen.
    A lvl 200 character with access to SL gear WITHOUT ANY PERKS is not really any different from current lvl 200 froob. Some better weapons and some better armors. Still can't use Xan or alien stuff. I don't see them soloing or even multiboxing the beast anytime soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoapTarder View Post
    its funny how AO requires so much grinding and effort to make any progress, both ingame and in Development

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeliniyah View Post
    A lvl 200 character with access to SL gear WITHOUT ANY PERKS is not really any different from current lvl 200 froob. Some better weapons and some better armors. Still can't use Xan or alien stuff. I don't see them soloing or even multiboxing the beast anytime soon.
    Free sloob, with symbiants perennium weapons and SL perks, which every sl00b has etc would be a great way to drop AO on steam.
    There is a massive difference between a 220 sloob and a lvl 200 fr00b.

    Oh and btw, players did manage the beast before AI was released.

    I should know, I was one of them.

    MB the beast with sl00bs, you mean like they do already ?
    Is it way easier with paid accounts, sure. You only need 3.
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