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Thread: Funcom [should] Include SL to Basegame for Steam Release

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Caloss2 View Post
    Free sloob, with symbiants perennium weapons and SL perks, which every sl00b has etc would be a great way to drop AO on steam.
    There is a massive difference between a 220 sloob and a lvl 200 fr00b.

    Oh and btw, players did manage the beast before AI was released.

    I should know, I was one of them.
    Yup. Thats why my suggestion was to limit froobs to level 200 and restrict them from having ANY perks, SL and Alien perks alike. Symbiants would be pretty much only real upgrade between a lvl200 froob from now compared to my suggestion.
    Aeliniyah Opifex Doc | Venkula Solitus Doc | Rohtoiivari Trox Doc | Yutheron Solitus Trader Ianamura NM Crat
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoapTarder View Post
    its funny how AO requires so much grinding and effort to make any progress, both ingame and in Development

  2. #22
    IMHO any absolute restriction (w/o a way to overcome) is stupid. AO is endgame heavy, there's almost no one under 200, even sub 220, except for pvp twinks and few "dungeon" twinks. 200 froob is useless in any endgame activity, 200 sloob is the same. For a lot of people even 220 sloob is subpar. Get real, the Beast is here more than dozen years, thats stone age, no "current" content.
    Compare current f2p system with other games (that I played):
    - LOTRO - f2p, player have to buy "quest packs"/expansions w/o sub, but there's no difference in character strength/abilities at endgame.
    - Secret world - b2p, player have to buy content dlc
    - AoC - converted from sub based do f2p with similar restriction as here (access to maxlevel, but without AA points and access to any dlc), revamped again and restrictions lifted (subs have some ingame bonuses)
    - SWTOR - f2p fail, without sub pointless to play on maxlevel, most restrictions can't be lifted even with cash.
    RK1: Amickson 220/30 ENG - equip, Aztea 220/30 MA - equip, Adirae 220/30 ENF

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Le-Quack View Post
    sometimes i feel u just argue just to argue psikie. there is no bigger picture of letting froob have shadowlands.
    to not get alien perks/items/research/ xan uppgrades says enough.
    The bigger picture is money loss for the company from subscriptions. If you cant or wont see that reality there is no reason to discuss this with you anymore. Even the loss of 1 subscription is a negative impact that affects the companies bottom line. If it aint making dollars it dont make sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeliniyah View Post
    A lvl 200 character with access to SL gear WITHOUT ANY PERKS is not really any different from current lvl 200 froob.
    I dont want to point out how silly that statement is, but maybe you dont realize how powerful SL nanos are compared to rk nanos. Anyone can multi log and kill sides in pande and TNH with 3 end game toons. The same could be done with 5 free SL toons with 1 end game 220. 3 paid down to 1 paid is a drop of 66% revenue from that 1 player alone.

    Do the math, slowly. Then you will come to the inevitable conclusion that this thread suggests Funcom executives to purposely lose money, lay off more workers, and spend even less resources with updates/fixes/balance.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Do the math, slowly. Then you will come to the inevitable conclusion that this thread suggests Funcom executives to purposely lose money, lay off more workers, and spend even less resources with updates/fixes/balance.
    Doing nothing will result in exactly the same outcome. Except it will most likely happen faster as it's already getting more and more difficult to find teams in certain level ranges and pretty much impossible to do instances like APF's, Alappaa and Albtraum etc with a pickup team...

    You really think that lvl 200 char WITHOUT perks could even cast most of the better SL nanos without heavily gimping survival or offense? Or that 5 lvl 200 characters WITHOUT any perks (and gimped to hell to cast those uber SL nanos) could really survive even the beast AoE nuke with one 220 in the box? Well maybe they could, maybe not, but it's still pretty certain that that way there would be a lot more people to level with and lvl200 chat w/o perks is still pretty gimped for any end-game raid or other activity to still encourage folks to sub.

    But hey, if you have better idea to revive the game and get more people to play with to the (used-to-be) popular leveling areas, let's hear it please!
    Aeliniyah Opifex Doc | Venkula Solitus Doc | Rohtoiivari Trox Doc | Yutheron Solitus Trader Ianamura NM Crat
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    And a fleet of other alts...

    Quote Originally Posted by SoapTarder View Post
    its funny how AO requires so much grinding and effort to make any progress, both ingame and in Development

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeliniyah View Post
    Doing nothing will result in exactly the same outcome. Except it will most likely happen faster as it's already getting more and more difficult to find teams in certain level ranges and pretty much impossible to do instances like APF's, Alappaa and Albtraum etc with a pickup team...
    The game has survived in a state of financial viability all these years without free Sloob accounts; I heavily doubt its continued exclusion will suddenly force the game to buckle and die.

    People suggesting free Sloob accounts have yet to realistically address the idea that implementing free Sloob accounts might ultimately lose FC money. This isn't some foreign concept that has no bearing on your enjoyment of AO. AO hangs by a thread - it has for years. The moment FC determines AO to no longer be financially relevant they have a compelling reason to shut the server down. FC simply cannot afford to take financial risks with AO currently. The market for AO relies heavily on a small population of veteran players - many of whom pay for multiple accounts. It isn't worth the risk of losing paid accounts to Sloob accounts.

    The base concept is understandable - create a method for Froobs to experience Sloob content, smooth out some of the rough edges in Froob leveling, and provide new opportunities (If limited) to Froobs which afford them a better understanding of the potential for a paid account. The mechanism simply needs to be carefully monitored. A significant power increase shouldn't occur. The best way to view the value in Sloob experience for Froobs is as an introduction. It shouldn't be a holistic experience, they should feel limited. They should want to pay. SL is, without contest, the expansion which provides the most significant amount of content - that content should not be freely distributed.

    I wrote this out earlier, but I'll reiterate it. Here is a theoretical example of features which could be provided freely in order to provide a taste & address substantial gaps with the Froob leveling experience while providing heavy incentives to subscribe.

    • Access to 6 perk points
    • Access to Nascence & Elysium
    • Access to Tier 1 & SL Weapons QL 100 and below
    • No access to Shade or Keeper
    • Access to specialization 1

  6. #26
    Agree shadowland starting area would look allot better than the current one

  7. #27
    Well, with current system AO will be shut down sooner than later. Game can't live on diminishing group of veteran players. Froob program is nothing more than prolonged trial and there is no connection between froob and paid characters, thats two absolutely different worlds. No sane person will pay overpriced subscription for 16 years old game when you've got dozens of f2p modern games everywhere.
    RK1: Amickson 220/30 ENG - equip, Aztea 220/30 MA - equip, Adirae 220/30 ENF

  8. #28
    Shadowlands should be included into the free content. It should had been that way years ago...
    ___________________

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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    The bigger picture is money loss for the company from subscriptions. If you cant or wont see that reality there is no reason to discuss this with you anymore. Even the loss of 1 subscription is a negative impact that affects the companies bottom line. If it aint making dollars it dont make sense.



    I dont want to point out how silly that statement is, but maybe you dont realize how powerful SL nanos are compared to rk nanos. Anyone can multi log and kill sides in pande and TNH with 3 end game toons. The same could be done with 5 free SL toons with 1 end game 220. 3 paid down to 1 paid is a drop of 66% revenue from that 1 player alone.

    Do the math, slowly. Then you will come to the inevitable conclusion that this thread suggests Funcom executives to purposely lose money, lay off more workers, and spend even less resources with updates/fixes/balance.
    in evry single arguement you do in this forum is to state that evryone is wrong and your right.
    and you just come with arguements like.. ''i saw it with my own eyes''.
    come with something valid atleast, becose evything you do is to asume, and people should be allowd to question that without you replying in psikie style '' i always know best ''

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Le-Quack View Post
    come with something valid atleast, becose evything you do is to asume,
    No what I do is question arguments that are purely self motivated and not understanding that there is a reason why SL has not been released for free. If the MATH, not assumptions, as to what offering SL for free would mean to the game long term doesn't make sense then once again there is no reason to discuss this with you.

    You can try to throw shade from behind your keyboard with side comments like "come up with something valid" as if it validates your position. But the fact remains SL for free would reduce paying subscriptions. Thats the bottom line, and no matter how you try to spin the narrative, that FACT would not change. If people are not willing to pay for ALL expansions now, how can you say with a straight face people would start to pay for AI and LE with free SL??? It makes me laugh just to type that. For as good at the math of twinking as you are how could you not understand BASIC economics?

    You can say no one can predict the future and that would be correct, but it is easy to see a logical conclusion.

    Your argument is no different than trying to convince a farmer that they will have the best crop year after a 2 year drought. SMH
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

    http://wolf-brigade.webs.com/

    My Story

    Don't feed the Mensa Tralalalala

    Everyday I'm Shuffling.

  11. #31
    How many of you arguing for allowing free sloobs will put your job on the line to make this change? if revenues go down, you quit your job and lose your current income source. The point of AO isn't to get more free players on, it is to get more paid players on. It is not very convincing case that more free things is the way to get more paid players. This game has evolved to the point where there is a narrow but loyal following. It is not widely popular. Freemium models tend to work better in the latter case and subscription models better in the former.

  12. #32
    How many people with paid accounts ONLY have Shadowlands. Name friends in that boat. I can't think of one that doesn't at -least- have AI.

    Or do you mean that because SL will be free, many people won't subscribe who might as new players?

    I think the number of people who will subscribe via Steam will be higher if SL is included. "Oh, I got to 220 but I still am 1/2 the utility of all these other toons, I better subscribe". Will take longer to get them subscribed, but those who do will be hooked much harder and therefor have a chance to stay for awhile.

    And in the meantime the number of people playing in general goes up, even if the income is delayed a bit from them, which has the benefit of attracting more old players who see the game with more life.

    Which also helps level out the economy in the long run (especially if those new players buy GRACE on occassion).

    Honestly ... no one here can say for sure what will happen in any of these cases.

    I'd see a case for giving free SL ONLY to Steam players for a few months. That way Steam can be promoted. After that period FC can figure out which was the most useful and either continue the free SL giveaway and make it default for everyone or stop it if it didn't do any good. But that would require a fair amount of background coding and I'm sure they're needing to do as little of that as possible given the dev "team" size these days.
    Theonara: "...but if I weren't married, some days I'd offer to kiss you. You just make too much sense. "
    Maeventura: "Sigh, once again I can but only bow for hyde's wisdom."

    ...."Social" keys, lightbars, wen-wens......Better tabbing!

    ... First Troxdoc with QL300 symbs (AO 17.0 pre-Albtraum guide) ... as well as first with 12 of 13 Alpha symbs.
    ... First TL1 Clanner with Omni-Armed Forces armor (pics) (pointless yet hawt)


    <original UI hacker ... when not actively playing AO ... email = 'hyde [at] athenpaladins • org'>

  13. #33
    Access to
    - Nascense Elysium Scheol 15 Eur
    - Adonis Penumbra Inferno 25 Eur
    - Pandemonium 15 Eur

    and bundle for 45 Eur
    Equilibrium forums https://eqorg.com

  14. #34
    ...or let froobs access all SL zones but keep them otherwise exactly like they are now: Max level 200, No perks, No research, No symbs, No SL/AI/LE/LoX gear. Just access to SL areas. Even that would help a lot to populate the leveling areas and bridge the gap between leveling froobs and leveling paid players. If a few teams full of froobs with RK gear manage to kill beast or other SL instances, just let them.

    Personally i still stand behind my earlier proposal about also allowing them access to SL gear. Just max level 200, no perks, no research and no AI/LE/LoX stuff. But apparently that would be too much for the professional naysayers like Psikie...
    Aeliniyah Opifex Doc | Venkula Solitus Doc | Rohtoiivari Trox Doc | Yutheron Solitus Trader Ianamura NM Crat
    Technigyro Trox Enfo | Gizmoplex Trox Keeper | Icarya Opi MA | Vinetto Opifex Shade | Retku Solitus Engineer
    Geraplex Trox Sold | Tuulispaa Opifex Fixer | Wertion Solitus MP | Kemoplex Trox MA
    And a fleet of other alts...

    Quote Originally Posted by SoapTarder View Post
    its funny how AO requires so much grinding and effort to make any progress, both ingame and in Development

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by fakiiri View Post
    Access to
    - Nascense Elysium Scheol 15 Eur
    - Adonis Penumbra Inferno 25 Eur
    - Pandemonium 15 Eur

    and bundle for 45 Eur
    In that case, couldn't they just open up the garden keys in the shop for froobs?
    /G13
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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeliniyah View Post
    ...or let froobs access all SL zones but keep them otherwise exactly like they are now: Max level 200, No perks, No research, No symbs, No SL/AI/LE/LoX gear. Just access to SL areas. Even that would help a lot to populate the leveling areas and bridge the gap between leveling froobs and leveling paid players. If a few teams full of froobs with RK gear manage to kill beast or other SL instances, just let them.

    Personally i still stand behind my earlier proposal about also allowing them access to SL gear. Just max level 200, no perks, no research and no AI/LE/LoX stuff. But apparently that would be too much for the professional naysayers like Psikie...
    Fair balance. There is physical content there. Reality is that those multi-accounts don't exist for that content which is trivial for 220s anyway. They exist to support full-expansion characters, and if role could be filled by something free they would get replaced.
    Ekarona 220/30 Female Solitus Engineer, long term member of Northern Star and proper "poor" gimp.
    Ekaslave 220/low Female Solitus Trader, FLAT(TM) pricing TS, almost all can do!
    Ekaros almost there/almost there too Male Solitus Martial-Artist.
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  17. #37
    When the game will get to the last 10 paying players, most of them will still say that the free offer shouldn't be extended to SL, because it risks losing some of the remaining 10 players. That's the AO community. And this is the same chicken way of thinking FC always had: "let's try not to lose any more players". Never was it "let's try to get more new players or get players back!", alyways "let's not risk anything that might upset my boss, because I'm an under qualified hack which shouldn't be in this position anyway and they may notice this". That's why for FC the game was in constant decline and from a gamer's perspective the game is already dead.

    edit: Throwing the game on Steam isn't a real plan to bring more players, a monkey would've known to put its game on Steam and it would've done it long before FC.
    Last edited by Nursebones; Jan 28th, 2017 at 11:30:18.

  18. #38
    why not add AI to the free game instead of SL? AI already takes place on Rubi-Ka. and Shadowlands is the largest content upgrade anarchy online has to offer; save it for the subscribers!
    Quote Originally Posted by Soju View Post
    #BAN_SOJU

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeliniyah View Post
    ...or let froobs access all SL zones but keep them otherwise exactly like they are now: Max level 200,
    Playshift requirements would make this entire en devour more than what can be expected of the current dev team more than anything. The way AO is coded now you cant open SL without perks and 220. Because you would have to flag all toons with "SL" which in turn would mean they could get SK, SK = 201+. The perks window is also "SL" flagged which is why froobs cant open it. You are essentially asking for MAJOR coding changes that quite frankly the current dev team probably can't do even if they wanted to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeliniyah View Post
    But apparently that would be too much for the professional naysayers like Psikie...
    Meh, read the above again and hopefully you understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekarona View Post
    Fair balance. There is physical content there. Reality is that those multi-accounts don't exist for that content which is trivial for 220s anyway. They exist to support full-expansion characters, and if role could be filled by something free they would get replaced.
    Thank the lord halleluiah

    Quote Originally Posted by Blazeit420 View Post
    why not add AI to the free game instead of SL? AI already takes place on Rubi-Ka. and Shadowlands is the largest content upgrade anarchy online has to offer; save it for the subscribers!
    Without dealing with playshift requirements and just flags, the most logical would be to ask for LE to be included to froobs. OFAB, dreadlochs, and mechs would be about all you would get. Although they would get research. So no major recoding required.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

    http://wolf-brigade.webs.com/

    My Story

    Don't feed the Mensa Tralalalala

    Everyday I'm Shuffling.

  20. #40
    I'm perfectly ok with 220 fr00bs.

    Getting to 220 and finding out you STILL can't complete content (yes, Beast died without AI perks and LE nanos and Xan symbs ... but not easily ... and with iPande there are far fewer full raids in Pande these days) ... and that you're maybe 1/2 as PVP effective as a geared paid account ... that is how you get people hooked and paying.

    In the meantime, more people to team, more people to chat.

    If FC really wants to grow the playerbase again:

    * SL should be fr00bed. It's already been significantly reduced in price for a long time (unless the $5/month is no longer active)

    * AI+LE+Xan should be included in any base subscription without additional 1-time cost. At the least AI+LE should be base subscription (and if no Xan, then at a reduced monthly), with Xan being possible a paid upgrade to access the current final tier costing full monthly amount.

    * Any of these changes must be done prior to Steam launch

    There are other solutions, but they require a lot of coding (ie, you can't give someone SL for a limited time ... once upgraded they can never fr00b again ... we all know that but not everyone realizes that is the case because of the flags put on a character/account once they have accessed these areas). Significant coding won't happen without a huge active playerbase. Chicken<->Egg. So we're limited to some price structure changes.
    Theonara: "...but if I weren't married, some days I'd offer to kiss you. You just make too much sense. "
    Maeventura: "Sigh, once again I can but only bow for hyde's wisdom."

    ...."Social" keys, lightbars, wen-wens......Better tabbing!

    ... First Troxdoc with QL300 symbs (AO 17.0 pre-Albtraum guide) ... as well as first with 12 of 13 Alpha symbs.
    ... First TL1 Clanner with Omni-Armed Forces armor (pics) (pointless yet hawt)


    <original UI hacker ... when not actively playing AO ... email = 'hyde [at] athenpaladins • org'>

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