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Thread: I am sure this has been said

  1. #1

    I am sure this has been said

    In the current form, launching this game on steam is going to be a massive failure. New players do not have the billions of credits required to do anything. The amount of creds it costs to equip a new toon these days is beyond reachable by a beginning player. Something needs to be done with the economy prior to a steam release or its going to flop.

    Let me know if you think different.

  2. #2
    I see no chance that "AO on Steam" will be anything but a flop when it comes to player retention.
    AO isn't suited for that crowd.

    "What ? I'm supposed to upgrade my stuff every 5-10 levels ?"

    "Where's the group finder ?"

    "World of Warcraft is the first MMO."

    At latest, once you tell them they need third party software to roll for mission rewards in an efficient manner, they are gone.
    No further significant work is expected to be done on this project going forward.

  3. #3
    You don't need billions of credits to equip a character when you are new to the game. Sure, if you want to buy end game lootrights you do, but that's not the perspective of a new player. It won't be the perspective of a new player until they are months into the game and hav already decided to subscribe.

    We're talking store bought implants/nanos to start out with and blitzable stuff to proceed beyond that. Weapons and armor is a bit different from class to class, but some can be store bought and some can be found as loot.

    What I think is most important is that new players get access to the GMI. It's absolutely archaic to handle buying and selling manually through chat channels/forums, and it deprives a lot of froobs from making credits on dynas and what-not.
    Avari 220/30/80 - Araghos 220/30/80 - Shishido 220/30/7x - Araninn 220/30/80

    Quote Originally Posted by Tergx
    If one of the few traders are PvPing around you and land GTH on you, take a trip to decon and it will be gone. What's the big deal hehe.

  4. #4
    That same argument could be made when I started in 2004. In fact, at that time there were fewer weapons options, and for SL you really needed some of the expensive items with good min dmg. Still, then and now there are plenty of ways to make money, and many of them require time and effort more than an elite equipped character.

    New players who join a guild and make an effort will not be stopped by the economy.

    I believe AO is such a niche game that players who like it like it, while players who don't are very hard to pursuade. I still believe Stream launch is good, because the game will reach more odd people like us. Even just an influx of confused noobs is lively and entertaining in itself.

    On the other side og things, the current economy is great for new players who want to reach Max level and uber equip and is willing to pay for it. After playing Black Desert Online last year it struck me that there are quite a few gamers now in their 30s, 40s and 50s who 10 years ago never would consider paying anything more than a sub but will now happily pay both for cosmetics and convenience.
    When I make mistakes, I use a lot of salt,
    cause salt makes m'steaks taste great!

    Beornin - The original Shotgun Adv
    Obsessive - First 220 Trox Engi
    Euthanizer - Reanimated NT

  5. #5
    Sadly I have to agree ...
    AO old time hardcore players loved AO for its complexity and difficulty level, unique twinking posibilities and the fact that it was a challange to play.
    Over the years AO has been dumbed down.

    I still remember when 1 perk reset had 24 hour timer and there was no full perk reset option.
    I still remember when there was no raid interfece and when we as org went to IS in 3 full teams and were wiped out by Hezak.
    I still remember when Beast raides were atended by 100+ ppl and with bad lag such rides sometimes were wiped as well.

    Now reseting perks is just 20m for full IPR (which for any old timer is like few cents)
    I can solo Hezak on my Shade without any problems.
    I can farm Beast with just 3 or 4 friends.

    There are new leveling armours (not very good but still quite enough for casual leveling), shop buyable implants + nanos are enough to level up to 100-150 with some help from more experienced orgmates.

    The biggest problem is the following one:

    AO (compared to modern games) is still to difficult for new players and at the same time if FC decide to dumb it down a bit more then more oldtimers will quit ...

    As for AO economy I agree 100% that it is ****ed up beyond recovery. I am tired of petitioning ingame or writing on AO forums about exploits and incompetence of FC.
    Petitions are always answered with standard bull**** "we are investigating" and writing on forums only gave me loooooong term forum ban on my main account ...

  6. #6
    12 years ago I made my first million creds thru shop-food and the pitiful amount of creds from mission rewards. it was a month long crawl. Now, as a paid player I pull around 30m a week from GMI and that's being really lazy and low balling the stuff that sells well. I do think there should be universal access to GMI. As a stick in the carrot & stick to get new players to subscribe it's not very good. It'll more likely drive a newbie away instead.

    Joining a guild helps tremendously with the creds but more importantly, with potential team mates for raids, missions, social, etc. (not to mention the whole citry benefits thing)

    Steam will be good for AO but expect much pain in the chat channels

  7. #7
    Forgot to add my support for GMI access for froobs. This benefits all.
    When I make mistakes, I use a lot of salt,
    cause salt makes m'steaks taste great!

    Beornin - The original Shotgun Adv
    Obsessive - First 220 Trox Engi
    Euthanizer - Reanimated NT

  8. #8
    First of all, releasing a game on Steam is not the golden ticket it once was, over 4000 games were released on Steam last year. It may make it more practical to keep playing, and it may entice some new or old players to come over, but it will hardly make a massive impact. Still a positive move.

    The biggest hurdle, for new or returning players, is not the bad economy and balance, and it is not that it's and old fashion and niche game. Many MMOs have similar problems, and the fact that it's old and niche is its only real strength. The problem is that the game is unfriendly and inaccessible.

    You must constantly rely on outside resources to figure out what to do in quests, where to get items, how to do trade skills. There is not even a menu in game where you can see what nanos are available for your profession, much less information about where to get them. The GUI and general display of information is terrible. The inventory, bank, and backpack system is a joke. You must use clicksaver to get the item you want in a mission, like Bendaar mentions.

    And don't get me started on how out dated and terrible the free to play program is at this point...

    Quote Originally Posted by hans76 View Post
    AO (compared to modern games) is still to difficult for new players and at the same time if FC decide to dumb it down a bit more then more oldtimers will quit ...
    "Dumbing down" is often the response from developers in these types of situation. It may help keep the game in the black for little while longer before it's cut, but really it's a terrible solution where you just end up with the worst of both worlds. If you just want a simple, dumb, RPG there is a hundred newer and better options.
    Salomar [220/30]
    Rainbowz [200/23]
    Twopairs [150/20]
    SPARTA

  9. #9
    new server ftw.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Le-Quack View Post
    new server ftw.
    I know there's always a thousand reasons not to, but a new server would at least keep me interested for quite a while. Just imagine the need to team, to obtain useful items, to level the old way.

    And the rush to get your first char to 220, to create half decent twinks for different levels of NW.

    It would be glorious. At least for a while.
    When I make mistakes, I use a lot of salt,
    cause salt makes m'steaks taste great!

    Beornin - The original Shotgun Adv
    Obsessive - First 220 Trox Engi
    Euthanizer - Reanimated NT

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Pounce View Post
    New players do not have the billions of credits required to do anything. The amount of creds it costs to equip a new toon these days is beyond reachable by a beginning player.

    Let me know if you think different.
    I disagree. It's never been easier to get decent gear just by playing the game. Ofcourse you'd have to actually play the game.
    /G13
    pirates. with lasers.
    Are you having an argument on the internet, again?

    Gene13 - on a space odyssey since 2001
    XXX - N

    Some day your ship will come in, but you will be at the airport.

  12. #12
    cmon people AO is not aiming to over take WoW in marketshare. the release is to increase exposure and gain more like minded people who will enjoy this cult classic. As for credits, you can buy a GRACE and be an instant 4 billionaire and have no credit issues as you level up.

  13. #13
    I accualty believe in steam as a good place to show what AO is all about. How many big scifi mmorpg are there? Very few.. StarWars Galaxy vs AO = AO far better.. others are mostly mmo not mmorpg..

  14. #14
    Meh they're just putting more and more (and better) in the shop. New players are expected to wallet warrior their way through which is why there will never be any in game changes to reduce the grind from hereon in. Merely shortcuts sold to you that are better than the ground-out ingame version. See: the xmas patch nano cans with +20 att boosts, +35 CL/Trt etc.

    Game is being turned over to the vultures. I don't think the Steam release will come with a sub deal or a revival. I think the Steam release is literally AO's final hurrah into maintenence mode. It won't see any further development.

    Ophiuchus : 220/30/80 HAHA etc
    Nahuatl
    :: 220/30/80 Melee 4lyfe
    Khurkh :: 220/30/80 healtankpew
    Transcendence
    Msanthropic
    : 199/22/49 nanostab
    Spidershiva :: 165/23/42 kite? eh?
    Silentmotion
    : 150/20/42 tankthink
    The Union

  15. #15
    Decided to log in and see how GMI looked...wow, market is crazy inflated. Whatever the cause, this is is pretty out of control. I don't see a new player who wants to acquire a few nice toys putting up with this. Some prices are literally 10x what they were last summer. If I intended to play frequently I would just buy credits one way or the other. Maybe that is what FC is counting on, but I wouldn't with an already high price to play.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by haxi View Post
    I don't see a new player who wants to acquire a few nice toys putting up with this.
    What items do new players absolutely need to play the game, that they have to pay zillions for on GMI?
    Avari 220/30/80 - Araghos 220/30/80 - Shishido 220/30/7x - Araninn 220/30/80

    Quote Originally Posted by Tergx
    If one of the few traders are PvPing around you and land GTH on you, take a trip to decon and it will be gone. What's the big deal hehe.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Avari View Post
    What items do new players absolutely need to play the game, that they have to pay zillions for on GMI?
    None of course, but what new player doesn't learn to lust after new gear? Items that were previously expensive could still be reasonably acquired through normal means, just hard work. Selling pearls, whatever. It would be fine if new player had a nice org to play and actually level with I suppose, but it seems that the new normal is buying creds from FC and then buying either lootrights or pillaging the GMI.

    If you don't see a problem, that's fine. Lots of older players won't. Don't count on any newcomers thinking this is a reasonable economy though.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by haxi View Post
    None of course, but what new player doesn't learn to lust after new gear? Items that were previously expensive could still be reasonably acquired through normal means, just hard work.
    Nothing in that regard has changed over the years.

    New players won't be min/max'ing stats. They won't go all in on twinking high ql implants @ lvl 60 in order to bash entire ToTW solo. They'll want decent leveling armor/weapons and credits enough to progress with basic implanting and nanos, which is entirely possible on a lowbie player income.

    I think people have forgotten how it was to be a new player and project their own dissatisfaction with the game on a perceived new player experience in order to have yet another avenue of complaining about what they think is problematic in the (end) game.

    The only thing people seem to be complaining about these days is how expensive stuff is on the market instead of realising that if stuff is expensive to buy, then they can also sell other stuff for high prices. I mean jesus christ, a ****ing VTE goes for near 100 mill now so it's just a matter of going to farm some lowbie mobs and start making credits....

    This game is a grind - deal with it. If you want to level to 220/30 and end game equip a char in 1-2 months, then yea, it's gonna cost you several billions...

    Two things a new player needs:
    1) An active org with other fr00bs
    2) Access to GMI
    Last edited by Avari; Jan 21st, 2017 at 14:23:22.
    Avari 220/30/80 - Araghos 220/30/80 - Shishido 220/30/7x - Araninn 220/30/80

    Quote Originally Posted by Tergx
    If one of the few traders are PvPing around you and land GTH on you, take a trip to decon and it will be gone. What's the big deal hehe.

  19. #19
    AS an example to new players, rollable nanos often sell at 20m. Most useful rollable nanos are sold out on market, or up at those prices, and can be easily sold through Neutnet and Darknet. New players can just learn to blitz and make money.

    I used to sell medsuits at 250k to make my first money.
    When I make mistakes, I use a lot of salt,
    cause salt makes m'steaks taste great!

    Beornin - The original Shotgun Adv
    Obsessive - First 220 Trox Engi
    Euthanizer - Reanimated NT

  20. #20
    Steam will have the same effect as the new engine had - insignificant. The current GD and the current FC management can't produce the changes needed to revamp this game. We'll have to wait for FC to go bankrupt again after the new Conan and hope that this time the mogul doesn't bail them out. They need a take over from someone who stops the spiral of incompetence and fires 90% of them, including all AO stuff, starting with the terrible moderators which kept only the fanbois on the forums and created a climate in which a hack can become this game's GD just because he's kissing the previous hack GD's ass.
    Last edited by Nursebones; Jan 22nd, 2017 at 14:06:36.

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