Game itself is gamestopper

[Blasterx]

Lets analyse this game shall we (from a lvl 72 point of view)
As i see it you have 4 things you can do in this game except for socializing/rpging (which is almost non existant here)

1)Missions: Since 13.0 this is totally broken. You can divide it in some subproblems
a) missions not completing. Means no reward, means lost time, means game stopper
b) mission reward, if you even get it. At lvl 71 i am now getting missions in newland, aegan, varmint woods giving maximum 30K as credits, plus the item. Now lets see, my nanos cost aproximatly 300k/nano, then i have to buy armor, nanokits, treatment labs, ...... . As you can see i will have to do a LOT of missions (each taking 30min-2hours soloing).

2)Tradeskills: Only for some professions and even then tedious, not rewarding. You only get limited experience, so you have to make a lot to level, and dont expect to get alot of money from this thing

3) Hunting: This comes down to finding a spot, settle in, hope it has a decent respawn rate, and then you start pressing buttons. Very boring. Only rewarding experience wise. Problem: you level but get behind in equipment which means you will get worse at killing which will eventualy lead to not be able to kill greens. So you will have to get money but oops, WHERE?

4) Story: Not much story experienced here. Lets see we have 2 episodes, they are pretty cool i think. But implemented in game?
each episode has a dungeon with it. Now lets see at those dungeons. The mobs in them are HIGHLY stronger then the supposed level, meaning the hitpoints they have. They can take alot of damage, for example the pumpkinheads, my lvl 71 metaphycist took like 5-10 min to take down a grey pumpkinhead, burning through 6 nanokit charges in the progress.
Event wise, I have seen 0 events, being europian, the events take place at 4 am or something like that.


5) Then we have the general bugs, exploits, crashes, performance loss, lag, etc


Now try to explain to me, where the hell are we supposed to find the fun in this game?

[_____________Spindok]

>>Now try to explain to me, where the hell are we supposed to find the fun in this game?<<

It is what you make it. To me, its fun.

No one is forcing you to play. If you don't like it and can't stand to wait until they finish ironing out these little bugs, then leave.

[______________Scorus]

Actually you can forget hunting after 13.0 also, the "Take it easy" bug is far worse now. For those of you that weren't around, that was a bug introduced in 12.6 as a fix for an exploit where players would keep hitting Q with some weapons and negate their weapon recharge time. Unfortunately it popped up in a lot of other situations. It was mostly fixed in 12.7, whose sole purpose was to fix the MANY bugs introduced by 12.6. But it was was never completely fixed and is much worse after 13.0.

Scorus

[____________Kichigai]

Actually, Goloc, that's the whole problem. This game is *not* what you make of it. Too much stuff doesn't work, or doesn't work consistently, or doesn't work the way it's supposed to. There's just no way to take a mess like that and make a cake out of it.

[_____________Mrmedic]

Hay,

sure some of the stuff is bugged. Look at UO and EQ. This game is ground breaking compaired to them, but I can see your point of view. One thing you have to rember is atleast they try and they incourage input from the community (Us) . This game is still fun as heck. I know I'm not gunna stop playing it any time soon. But you did bring up a point about those trade skills. I really wish they were more rewarding just like BSmithing in UO was.

[____________Overkill]

--- sure some of the stuff is bugged. Look at UO and EQ. This game is ground breaking compaired to them---

Yeah, this game's ground breaking allright. It's dug itself a hole that's getting deeper and deeper with more bugs than you can shake a stick at.

At least with UO you can login and play the game and the client won't crash everytime you try to login after logging out or while you're playing the game.

Rarely doesl the UO client crash. When it does it's a simple fix.

So far this game sucks ass.

[_______________Zippo]

I suppose AO is like lots of things- depends on what you are looking for.

I have "re-rolled" 8 times! Whish I hadn't felt that I needed to but I did. The game is complex and many mistakes are made in character development.

I TOTALLY agree with the trade skills complaints. Much of the rest is sometimes true sometimes not.

Eventually I will evolve a character I truly like. Until that time I will enjoy my 45 MA, 39 Agent and 14 MP (what kind of weapon should he use?)

I have been having a ball with my Agent since 12.8. 13.0 killed me and then the re-patch made up for it a little. Changing professions has been fantastic. I have gotten to play some of the abilities of professions I had not pursued high enough to enjoy.

Did a few missions today and learned I have to adjust my mission tactics yet agian- oh well.

All in all a very fun game.

[Thrin]

I am having simliar problems. I love AO but this just plain sucks.

I am taking a break for a week.

Ugh!!

Thrin

[_______________Bjond]

The problem is that judging from player populations and the increasing number of people I don't see anymore, I'd say Funcom has lost at least 50% of the player base since it's peak. There are no new players, either. I often try to give away free newbie gear and don't get *any* takers. Why? 'Cuz newbies are insanely rare.

Of the friends that have left, it's always "bugs" and "nerfs" that are the cause. People are tired of constantly having their characters wiped out by a change or waiting patiently for patch after patch for a fix they need while Funcom states "we're working on it" and then turns around and makes rocks fly out of guns, or adds broken wheel scrolling, broken (and item eating) inventory unscrambling, and spends time tweaking the chat colors into something far less readable.

Granted all these new things would be nice if they worked, but why are they wasting time even working on them while they have things like grid camping, conceal bugged, AS bugged for months, weapon+fist & zoning bugged since beta, pet pathing bugged since beta, surgery clinic nerfed, sugery kit bugged since beta (doesn't transfer skill), comp-lit buffs nerfed, tutoring bugged since beta (not important until clinic/comp nerfs), etc. ad nauseum. I'm sure nearly every player could list at least one bug that they would want to see fixed before you do anything else.

The Funcom development team is running wild. We desperately need management to step in and say, "sorry, if you put one more bug into the game, you don't get paid this month". Then, once they fix the problem of adding new bugs, start fixing old ones. After all that, maybe it's time to think about a new feature or two.

Funcom has one of the best FX teams I have ever seen. The sound and graphics are marvelous. The story (where it shows), is great. The humor in the little things like the talking leets is sure to make anyone smile. Please don't let a set of bad programmers drag the entire game down.

[MrWaddles]

Originally posted by Mrmedic
This game is ground breaking compaired to them, but I can see your point of view.

You know, some folks keep tossing around how "ground-breaking" AO is compared to EQ, UO, etc. but I'm just not seeing it. What precisely are these "ground-breaking" features in AO?

• Graphics? Graphics content is near-entirely a function of release date, since the quality of the status quo graphics cards is the restrictive element, not the ability to design content. Even then, aside from rich, but often grotesquely corrupted textures, and some nice caustics which are entirely a function of the ongoing and predictable advance in adapters, what part of AO's graphics is "ground-breaking"? Certainly there were other RPG/FPS games using those features before AO, just not MMORPGs -- a distinction of minimal value when discussing graphics quality. As well, with EQ receiving a major graphics overhaul in Luclin it's entirely possible that EQ, at least, will have a graphics engine on par with AO's (and likely not suffering from the same widespread graphics corruption problems, since 989 has historically been far less tolerant of the kinds of errors Funcom has routinely "let through" into AO release).
  
• Setting? Well, if Funcom would make more of an effort to make AO a "sci-fi" environment, there I'd agree they have a novelty. Sadly, they will not be alone for long. Moreover, the setting "genre" is anything but "ground-breaking", since it has been used in other online games such as Half-Life, etc. It was hardly a ground-breaking achievement that "AO is science-fiction", simply a matter of genre selection by it's designers. And as I've said before, for an allegedly sci-fi setting, AO seems to treat things very magically in far too many instances.
  
• Tradeskills? Mostly do not work, and would not really differ much in relevancy, function, etc. from their counterparts on other MMORPGs if they did work. In EQ, for example, you can also make a wide array of game-useful magic jewelry, weapons, armor, weapons, etc. How is AO's tradeskill system, as it stands to work anytime soon, different?
  
• Magic/NFs? AO's selection of buffs, debuffs, DDs, DOTs, pet-spells, charms, etc. seem in no way particularly "ground-breaking" compared to it's competitors. About the only innovation is "false professions" for Agents, and even those have polymorphic equivalents in, say, EQ.
  
• Combat? Aside from the selection of weapons and armor, many of which are pragmatically useless, and a wider selection of "special attacks" than most, AO's combat system seems little different than the others, let alone "ground-breaking"-ly different.
  
• Story? Thus far there has been nothing presented which could be considered "ground-breaking" by most standards. Producing new static dungeons is something ALL AO's competitors do routinely from time to time. The same is true of "epic battles", which again do not particularly even work in AO.

So what, precisely, are all these "ground-breaking" aspects of AO?

[______________Xombie]

4) Story: Not much story experienced here. Lets see we have 2 episodes, they are pretty cool i think. But implemented in game?

For the past two days, Radiman (yes, THE Radiman, bald head and all) has been meeting with clan leaders (yes, player guild clans) to discuss the amnesty, as was said in the first episode.
Not to mention the big cyborg attacks.

[______________Xombie]

You know, some folks keep tossing around how "ground-breaking" AO is compared to EQ, UO, etc. but I'm just not seeing it. What precisely are these "ground-breaking" features in AO?

Social interaction
Nightclubs, bars, and other social activities provide a way for everyone to interact. Not to mention that you can talk to anyone, at any time, in any place (something that has been impossible in games like UO if your friend was on a different server shard, and in DAoC, if they choose a different ALIGNMENT, it is PROHIBITED).
I have yet to see ANY MMORPG that provided a social atmosphere above hack-and-slash gaming.

A dynamic storyline
-Radiman meeting with player guilds
-Amnesty
These are of the first two episodes. I haven't seen this much in EQ's entire history as a game.

An open-ended character design system
Want to be a banjo-tossing giant sorcerer? In AO, you can do that. Other games PROHIBIT you from adding this much personality into your characters. AO allows you to experiment with character design, where others will not even consider allowing.

These are just the things that stand out for me.

Graphics?

Games that are even on par with AO's texturizing and modeling are not going to be released until mid next year.

Setting?

Last time I checked, this wasn't being marketed as "the first Sci Fi game ever made". I'm not sure why you think it was.
It's said to be the first sci-fi MMORPG. Correct me if i'm wrong, but IT IS.

Tradeskills?, Magic/NFs?, Combat?

When in the hell were these ever hailed as ground-breaking in AO? Last I checked, they weren't even a proposed selling point.

Story? Thus far there has been nothing presented which could be considered "ground-breaking" by most standards.

"Thus far" being three weeks or so into the actual storyline. Let's count some eggs before they hatch, shall we?

[MrWaddles]

Originally posted by Xombie
Social interaction
Nightclubs, bars, and other social activities provide a way for everyone to interact. Not to mention that you can talk to anyone, at any time, in any place (something that has been impossible in games like UO if your friend was on a different server shard, and in DAoC, if they choose a different ALIGNMENT, it is PROHIBITED).
I have yet to see ANY MMORPG that provided a social atmosphere above hack-and-slash gaming.

Huh? Did you even try this before you made your comment? Players cannot message between servers in AO any more than they can message between shards (which are the same thing - servers) in UO. Same restrictions apply to both games, so how is AO "better"?

As for "nightclubs", there are taverns, and similar gathering places in ALL of the MMORPGs currently released. People are as capable of the same levels of social interaction in, say, EQ, as they are in AO. Both have animated emotes, both have social gathering places, etc. How is AO "better" in that regard either? Just because more players use it (often because they have nothing else to do), does not mean the systems available in other games are any better or worse. For the most part, they're largely the same in terms of capabilities.

As for the DAoC restrictions on communications, Funcom would be well-advised to actually learn a bit from Mythic on that issue. Right now, nothing prevents a player from creating a "spy" character on the same server (but opposide "side") as where they play their "main" character. That is going to be exploited, without question, once the sides start planning big group attacks, etc. DAoC's approach is far less exploitable in that regard. Frankly, the ability to create chars on both sides of a conflict on the same server is a design flaw which Funcom will eventually be forced to fix. Restricting communications and character-generation to same sides on a given server makes it far more feasible to do large player-run events, without griefers deliberately ruining it.

A dynamic storyline
-Radiman meeting with player guilds
-Amnesty
These are of the first two episodes. I haven't seen this much in EQ's entire history as a game.

Yeah, let's discuss the "amnesty" a second. Whoops, there went any ability for Omni players to believe there was an actual conflict underway. Cities filled with roaming Clanners is NOT what we were promised on the box. All in the name of "balancing" because Clanners were complaining about high prices and inability to get certain items -- so Funcom made it possible for them to get to Omni stores easily, as a fix.

Where's the story in that? Do you have any clue how "un-immersive" and implausible such a one-sided amnesty is, while Clan city guards still openly chase and kill Omni citizens? If that is an example of the kind of "in-game story" we can expect, then this "story" is losing plausibility by the second.

As for the "dynamic storyline", you are aware that the "major characters" in EQ often act as shepherds/actors in in-game GM-run events just to add "story" right? Frankly, I'd say any of the big GM-run story events on EQ servers remain unparalleled by any of the story attempts on AO to date. So how is AO "better", let alone "ground-breaking", in that regard?

An open-ended character design system
Want to be a banjo-tossing giant sorcerer? In AO, you can do that. Other games PROHIBIT you from adding this much personality into your characters. AO allows you to experiment with character design, where others will not even consider allowing.

Sorry, but this statement is flat-out untrue. Both UO and AC allow far greater "class-independent" character development of skills than AO. Want to fight using pets? Anyone can train the skills necessary to do that in UO. Want to be a full-out "Tank Mage"? Either AC or UO allows far more plausible magic access to any character through appropriate training, as opposed to restricting spell access by "character class".

Even in EQ, aside from weapons and armor restrictions which are plausibly tied to class (druid-type blade restrictions, metal armor being damaging to Iksar), the various weapons and armor types are equally trainable to characters depending on where they choose to spend their training points. None of this semi-ridiculous "I can't mathematically ever be good at <skill> because it requires too many dark blue skills for my class". Even in EQ, there are "general spells" which become available to multiple "classes" at different levels.

How, precisely, does AO allow "more free-form development" than UO or AC, or even for that matter EQ? Your "banjo-tossing giant sorcerer" example is as doable in those games as it is in AO.

These are just the things that stand out for me.

Except that the things which stood out for you are no less true in other games as they are in AO. "Ground-breaking" just doesn't seem to apply to AO in any of those situations/mechanics.

Games that are even on par with AO's texturizing and modeling are not going to be released until mid next year.

Shadows of Luclin's character class models are all on-par, poly-count-wise, with AO's, and will be shipping in less than a month. For the new areas (Luclin), the textures are on-par with AO as well. While the older areas have improved textures too, they will not be upgraded up to "AO specs", true, but that's largely an issue of "client-compatibility" (the need to run older EQ clients). Areas which require SoL have textures as nice, and mob models as nice and detailed, as anything in AO.

Last time I checked, this wasn't being marketed as "the first Sci Fi game ever made". I'm not sure why you think it was.
It's said to be the first sci-fi MMORPG. Correct me if i'm wrong, but IT IS.

Actually, I was simply responding ahead of time to the notion that the "sci-fi" concept was "groundbreaking", as it isn't from a games sense. The issue under discussion was what parts of AO were "ground-breaking", and just being a "sci-fi" story doesn't qualify AO as "ground-breaking" by itself.

So far you've managed to cite a bunch of features that aren't unique to AO as it's "ground-breaking" aspects. The only area where AO could be "ground-breaking" would be in Funcom's implementation of the storyline, and even there there have been no "ground-breaking" conceptual implementations to date.

AO is done using an interesting and fairly flexible game engine, no question. If Funcom ever gets off their butts and puts efforts into telling the story creatively, it could put AO well ahead of it's competitors in terms of immersiveness, etc. However, as I said before, there just isn't that much "ground-breaking" about AO, contrary to what some folks keep saying on these boards. In many cases, AO cannot even implement working parity with other MMORPGs to date (except for making the same mistakes).

[_______________Esmee]

Originally posted by jwiede
Yeah, let's discuss the "amnesty" a second. Whoops, there went any ability for Omni players to believe there was an actual conflict underway. Cities filled with roaming Clanners is NOT what we were promised on the box. All in the name of "balancing" because Clanners were complaining about high prices and inability to get certain items -- so Funcom made it possible for them to get to Omni stores easily, as a fix.

Where's the story in that? Do you have any clue how "un-immersive" and implausible such a one-sided amnesty is, while Clan city guards still openly chase and kill Omni citizens? If that is an example of the kind of "in-game story" we can expect, then this "story" is losing plausibility by the second.

As for the "dynamic storyline", you are aware that the "major characters" in EQ often act as shepherds/actors in in-game GM-run events just to add "story" right? Frankly, I'd say any of the big GM-run story events on EQ servers remain unparalleled by any of the story attempts on AO to date. So how is AO "better", let alone "ground-breaking", in that regard?Sorry, but this statement is flat-out untrue. Both UO and AC allow far greater "class-independent" character development of skills than AO. Want to fight using pets? Anyone can train the skills necessary to do that in UO. Want to be a full-out "Tank Mage"? Either AC or UO allows far more plausible magic access to any character through appropriate training, as opposed to restricting spell access by "character class".
[/B]

erm i sort of thought that the "amnesty" was sort of temporary like something happening in the plot and in the game at the same time. My assumption is...and i could be way off base is that it will end and the easy trips to the omni missions will be over.
Furthermore, I never played EQ probably never will having 0 interest in it since the day it came out, but in UO the gms and seers really weren't all that interesting. they played favorites and nothing they did with one guild affected anyone else. But that aside...

I would like to point an interesting groundbreaking feature of AO and that is having almost everyone on the same server. I almost wish they hadn't started rk2...that seems like a waste and kind of ruined one of the features I found most interesting about the game. I like being able to play with everyone in the same world it allows for a greater diversity of interaction as far as i am concerned...

[MrWaddles]

Originally posted by Esmee
I would like to point an interesting groundbreaking feature of AO and that is having almost everyone on the same server.

This is entirely a function of "popularity". Beyond a certain number of average subscribers playing at any one time, Funcom will need to open more servers. They just aren't running into that problem, for the most part, due to low game population. Those other games have so many servers because they have so many subscribers playing, on average, at any one time.

At it's high-point (call it a few weeks before the 12.6 debacle), they were pretty clearly starting to push the single-server capacity of RK1 most of the time. RK2 was far more important then, of course, because it had much more overflow to handle.

Now, on the other hand, they could probably go to a single server with ease. Game population seems WAY down even at "peak playing times" compared to a few months ago.