Spam until they land!

[Xtremtech]

I think a 5sec immunity to said nanoline should be given if a debuff is resisted. Debuffs only tho, not dmg attacks.

This pretty much exists already for most debuffs, since roots/snares/Skill Drains/ stuns/AC+NR Drains/NSD/Nanocost Debuffs etc etc all have ~4.5 second recharges. Even UBT and Damage Debuffs are around 3 second recharge. A good few of these debuffs also have chunky attack times and are tough to get down to instacast at full def.

It's simply not true that they can be 'spammed' to defeat NR. And keep in mind that if you resisted one cast with your NR, then there's a fair chance you'll resist another. They can be recast of course, but most importantly at the loss of time which can be a serious issue.

Most of the professions who are casting those debuffs, are professions who have a bunch of other stuff to cast too... so every time that you resist that's a chunk of time taken out of their offensive casting.

There is an issue to be addressed here though. Between NR budgets, immunities, removers and recastability you can spend a fair bit of time debuffing, removing, debuffing, !immune, debuffing, removing, debuffing etc etc. It doesn't make for a good gameplay experience on either side.

There have been a few systems proposed quite recently that could address these issues. In essence though, if you use immunities or cool-downs to effectively lengthen the time between viable casts of a debuff - then you also have to increase the likelihood that the debuff will land the first time and you also have to reduce the ability to remove that debuff. There has to be balance to the mechanic for both sides.

X

[Mountaingoat]

I agree with Xtrem, especially his last two sentences. Casters aren't "combat centric" with a side of casting, casting itself is integral to the professions balance.

[Righteous]

Some people are trying to disrupt this thread by mentioning normal damage dealing nanos. Please go make your own thread. I'm specifically talking about debuffs and roots in nano form. Not perk form (which have long recharges and chance to fail with similar consequences) the biggest problem is debuff duration where even if you are failing to recast the debuff, if you landed it once you have a good chance of keeping your target perma-debuffed. This is simply annoying and as xtrem said, not fun for either side.

[Hacre]

Using this logic, weapon hits are too spammable because if you miss, you can simply attack again once your weapon recharges.

Because weapon hits are comparable to some of the debuffs in the game and clearly they're what this thread is about. Cmon Berinda.

This pretty much exists already for most debuffs, since roots/snares/Skill Drains/ stuns/AC+NR Drains/NSD/Nanocost Debuffs etc etc all have ~4.5 second recharges. Even UBT and Damage Debuffs are around 3 second recharge. A good few of these debuffs also have chunky attack times and are tough to get down to instacast at full def.

It's simply not true that they can be 'spammed' to defeat NR. And keep in mind that if you resisted one cast with your NR, then there's a fair chance you'll resist another. They can be recast of course, but most importantly at the loss of time which can be a serious issue.

Most of the professions who are casting those debuffs, are professions who have a bunch of other stuff to cast too... so every time that you resist that's a chunk of time taken out of their offensive casting.

There is an issue to be addressed here though. Between NR budgets, immunities, removers and recastability you can spend a fair bit of time debuffing, removing, debuffing, !immune, debuffing, removing, debuffing etc etc. It doesn't make for a good gameplay experience on either side.

There have been a few systems proposed quite recently that could address these issues. In essence though, if you use immunities or cool-downs to effectively lengthen the time between viable casts of a debuff - then you also have to increase the likelihood that the debuff will land the first time and you also have to reduce the ability to remove that debuff. There has to be balance to the mechanic for both sides.

X

Nice post. Although when I talk about spammable nanos, I mean nanos like GTH, Remedy Inhibitor, etc, low to normal checks with a recharge so short you often don't even notice you've countered the first attempt before the second attempt actually nails you.

[Xtremtech]

Aye, there are definitely one or two truly spammable nanos in the game. Hard to be sure why they were designed that way.

In the case of GTH, I suspect that it's because the other Trader nanos are notoriously long in casting and recharge, so they made it easier to get it in between other casts. I could see a logic behind that.. even if I think the end result is probably not the best and needs something doing to it...

X

[Sterva]

1. What profession and level are you, sterva
2. Is "100" times accurate? Are you telling me you have a 1% chance to land? I find that hard to believe.

1) Endgame crat.

2) If you work to get 99% root resist, 1/100 times is pretty accurate.

[Hacre]

Aye, there are definitely one or two truly spammable nanos in the game. Hard to be sure why they were designed that way.

In the case of GTH, I suspect that it's because the other Trader nanos are notoriously long in casting and recharge, so they made it easier to get it in between other casts. I could see a logic behind that.. even if I think the end result is probably not the best and needs something doing to it...

X

Shortened duration, lose the -4k nano delta (but keep the in built nano DoT), keep the positive effect on the Trader as is, fixed. It will still hurt NTs the most as you can kiss good bye to any use of nanobot guard and taking damage under shelter will make nano loss a real issue, so kill Shelter and take heavier damage but get a few more casts off or take less damage but cast less. Still a pain but not the fate worse than death that it is now.

I understand how busy a Trader's casting queue is, it's probably the next one right behind NTs alongside Crats/MPs probably, hence an adjustment like I suggest rather than a silly high NR check or a silly high recharge.

[Flyingengi]

This pretty much exists already for most debuffs

1 on 1...sure. But when you have 5 people trying to debuff the crap out of you, a 5sec window where nobody can root you once you have resisted a root is a big thing.

[Xtremtech]

I've long been of the opinion that immunities should apply to AoE effects... but there's an argument that goes: If 2 or 3 crowd controllers are working together to keep you rooted - then you should stay put. There should be benefits like that to co-ordinated play in group/mass PvP.

If that's a problem for you then having somebody on your side with removers is really the way to go. Defence against multiple attackers should require multiple defenders really... as a broad general rule.

X

[Xyphos]

shoot a gun at a player, it lands most of the time and sometimes misses. even with high dodge skill.
swing a sword at a player, it lands most of the time and sometimes misses. even with high evade skill.
throw a grenade at a player, it lands almost never and sometimes hits. even with low dodge skill.
cast a nano at a player, it lands most of the time and sometimes misses. even with high NR.

everyone has an attack and defence skill; caster, melee, ranged or oddball. yet the oddballs have it far worse and don't complain.

[Righteous]

shoot a gun at a player, it lands most of the time and sometimes misses. even with high dodge skill.
swing a sword at a player, it lands most of the time and sometimes misses. even with high evade skill.
throw a grenade at a player, it lands almost never and sometimes hits. even with low dodge skill.
cast a nano at a player, it lands most of the time and sometimes misses. even with high NR.

everyone has an attack and defence skill; caster, melee, ranged or oddball. yet the oddballs have it far worse and don't complain.

Hence.... Spam until they land....

[Ixiaan]

There's a huge difference between balanced nano draining and GTH. Players never running out of nano shouldn't happen, removing all of their nano in 1s shouldn't happen either.

I fail to see why people should run out of nano just from casting their normal nanos. If you get GTHed on a class that relies on casting nanos you basically get hit with an I win button which is not very fun imo. Changing ND/stims/etc so this would happen normally without any debuffs landing would completely ruin AO for casting/healing professions.

There are already plenty of tools in game for draining nano: zap nano, alb ring, engie perks, shade perks, crat aura, gth, etc.

[Maxisolja]

Debuff's should have a short duration in pvp and not be refreshable, however they should also be able to land pretty easily.

Resisting a debuff multiple times before it lands is a benefit, not a drawback...

(ofc nanos like gth/ri/br and stuff are totally retarded)

[Fifty50]

And on the other side of the fence, why does half of my tool set require spamming 100 times to land?

Try fixer side of the fence landing hostile nanoes with 175% def check while having 1600ish Nano AR, on targets with 2-4k NR..
WTB band aids for my finger tips...