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Thread: Team or perish

  1. #1

    Team or perish

    This is not as much of a suggestion as it is an observation. There is a disturbing trend occuring within AO that is making it more of a single player RPG than an MMORPG. I think we have all seen this with the impact of the daily missions. Don't get me wrong, I love them. I enjoy being able to log in and have an immediate activity that will significantly move my XP/Research/AXP bar. But more and more, I see players that log in, run daily missions on three or four toons, and then don't have anything else to do. This is especially true at those levels where there is not a lot of significant quests to be done (read 170 - 210).

    I think, for awhile there, we were pretty heavily weighted towards the team aspect of the game. You simply couldn't get much done unless you were in a team. With the perceived shrinking player base, it certainly became more frustrating to earn XP and AXP particularly for professions that were not highly desirable in teams. Now it seems we have swung the other way. Before daily missions were introduced, teams were not as easy to come by as they were in the past, but they were there. Inferno missions were running regularly. Pen missions got started up once in awhile. LE before level 180ish was pretty easy to get. Now, it's a wasteland. Seeing two or three 220 players on LFT for inferno missions is startling. As a 220 toon not that long ago, you had your pick of people to fill your team with from LFT. Gathering them up now is a trial to say the least. I do not believe that this is from a smaller player base, but rather from the fact that you can essentially complete the equivalent of 3 or 4 inferno missions in the span of a half hour through dailies. RK missions seem to be nearly extinct as players can now get their token grinds done through dailies as well.

    Maybe I'm wrong, and you all are seeing something different, but as a player that is in his 3rd year of AO (I know, I'm still a newbie) the change seems quite dramatic to me. So, how do we fix this?

    1) Add team versions of daily missions. And by this, I mean real, accessible, fun team missions. Yes, I know that you can pull Smug Den, IS, APFs, etc. from the Elite Handler and these are supposed to be team missions, but let's face it, they are either way the hell out in the boondocks (Sumg Den), ridiculously hard (IS), or require a specific kind of team to complete (APFs). So, create something as inventive as the single player daily missions (which are awesome), but make it team only.

    2) Make team level mean something. In all the years I have been playing, I have heard every possible explanation for the benefit of having a high team level. Higher XP rewards, better credit awards, increased AAO/AAD, etc., but I have never seen any difference between having a team level of 1 and having a team level of 5. So make it mean something for real. The longer you hold your team together, you get XP bonuses up to a max of 10%, let's say. And have it show in your system window. So you'll get a message like, "You received 100,000 XP. 14,000 XP was gained as a side bonus. Team level of 3 gained an extra 5,000 XP." That way people will see the tangible benefits of having a high team level. I realize that the whole anti-OST crowd will cry foul about those teams sitting AFK at kite hill for hours to get their team level up, but ignore them. It's totally worth it.

    3) Elminate the 18 hour lockout on DR team instance. Please, for the love of god, just do this! DR should be played, and played often. It's insane that an instance as creative, challenging, and entertaining as this one should be deserted simply because you can only do it every 18 hours and you have to not only find players that are interested, but are on the same clock as you. Tone down the mission rewards if you have to. But whatever you have to do, do it so that more people will go to this instance.

    4) I'm a bit iffy on this one, but how about adding XP bonuses to SL quest lines if you are teamed with people in your range? In the same way that your quest rewards are nerfed by being teamed with someone outside of your range, they could be boosted by teaming with people inside your range. I realize there is potential for sploiting in this, but make the boost small yet noticeable and it should be fine.

    5) Reduce the insane HP bars on SL cata mobs. Even a team of 160 players will struggle with doing Sheol catas simply because it takes so fricking long to kill a single mob in there. This will have the added benefit of making tier armor more accessible. Again, it may not be the most uber armor available anymore, but as social it's pretty hawt for most professions.

    6) Listen to the suggestions of the PvPers in regards to Notum Wars. Anyone that knows me will confirm that I fail spectacularly at PvP. However, I do realize it's importance in an MMO. I also understand that dedicated PvPers tend to become more hardcore fanatics of a game than even the most avid PvMer. So listen to them. Behind all the whines and QQ, they do come up with solid suggestions. No, don't make every zone PvP. I don't want to have to worry about gankage when I'm hunting in the wilds of RK (that's ridiculous), but the whole concept of Notum Wars is a good one. It's just the implementation that could use tweaking now. I don't know what those tweaks are, but there are people here that do. Take their suggestions to heart rather than passing them over.

    A few ideas, I'm sure you all have more. Basically, we need to undo some of the damage done to the team aspect of this game by the introductions of daily missions. Getting people involved with each other is still the surest way of player retention.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunfytr View Post
    I have played my toon 280 days. You have played ur toon 36 days. My toon is better. Get over it.

  2. #2
    I agree with you 100% about the game becoming solo with login...daily..log out.. :[ I've trying to get people to steer away from the OST or 100% hecks or fail to level teams with a few raids I do that are quite fun from one person who attended. No hecks, just them in a slow respawn area with a big range of mobs around it making it both challenging and fun with each wave.( I wont be telling you the areas untill more people join Mercury Dragon Public Raids! ) But as we all know everyone on lft says the same thing... "why cant we go get a pocket?" >_>

    We even "help" the mobs to make it interesting...
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  3. #3
    De-instance Pande.

    make inf mobs give more XP (outdoors and in mishes)

    make Ado hecks give more XP, and reduce the bugginess.

    Revamp S10 mishes you pull form the dude so that people can farm there in teams and still make money, instead of it just being an all out war for relays and bounties.

    Catacombs suggestion has been made before, but it's oh so pertinent. The catacombs in eveery area are an absolute gong show.

    S7 has been an excellent addition for teaming. I have a few new peeps on my 200 docs freinds list and I think it's loads of fun.

  4. #4
    Or they can delete hecklers
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  5. #5
    bump, bump, bump oh and bump some more. oh and if you listen to the OP FC. can you please take some suggestions from other threads too. KKthx
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  6. #6
    I second "delete" hecklers suggestion.

    Beyond that, I would propose the following:

    Provide a team option for each daily mission category (there are already alien team daily missions)

    Rework how team xp is calculated. Currently XP per kill is reduced for each person you add to a team (under the presumption that a bigger team kills faster) and that loss continues even when the person is out of range to receive xp for the kill. Instead change XP per kill to increase by 10% for each team member in range (resulting in150% xp for a full team being present).

    Either reduce the XP given by hecklers, or make hecklers generate a far reaching aura that disables team xp enhancement.

  7. #7
    They can make all hecks stationary.... ideas ideas....
    220 crat ~Frocratarox~
    130 doc ~Mrfunny~
    150 engi ~Miniwheats~
    220 Shade ~Tsume~
    60 NT ~Nomorenano~
    220 fixer ~Barlock~
    Spirit Guide You

  8. #8
    The teaming issue won't really see a solution until the game population rises significantly. Until then, FC can't do much but facilitate soloing/duoing better, since doing content alone or with one or two friends is much more convenient and involves less waiting around and hassle when you're missing some vital component in a team (ie. tank suddenly goes afk). It's entirely a matter of not wanting to spend ages waiting just to get to killing things, and it's understandable.

  9. #9
    The increase in soloable content was/is required because of declining population, and a significant part of the playerbase not being interested in actual team activities other than grinding hecks or Inf missions anyway.
    So something had to be added for players who refuse to join such teams but still would like to be able to level at a reasonable pace and enjoy actually playing the game.

    Team based dailies. I disagree. Adjust already existing content instead; statics and team missions could be tweaked to offer both more challenge (but definitely not in the way of insane amounts of mob HP) and better rewards, XP and otherwise.

    Team level. Definitely, several suggestions were already made, but none implemented so far. This would be the perfect feature to reward teams that (can) work together for extended periods by adding meaningful bonuses to the entire team as time goes by, as long as they are teamed.
    Bonus to XP gained, hp/nano (and/or regen rate), off/def, skills, special team buffs, increased "richness" in item drops from mobs or team instance bosses, etc., there are many possibilities.
    Also, there could be slightly more team levels and the levels could/should come a little faster; IIRC currently it takes several hours (2-3 maybe?) to reach the highest team level which seems a bit unreasonable to me. It should be more like 60-90 minutes at most, or even slightly less.

    SL quests (but could apply to any quest, really). There should be some kind of reward for "redoing" these quests on chars that already completed them, so that if someone helps a "first timer" to complete one, they'd also get something out of it again.
    This could potentially reduce the need to "bring a 220 along to help you with it" approach somewhat. Of course it wouldn't hurt either to review the difficulty of these SL quests as many of them are almost impossible to complete with characters in the intended level range (some of them are even a challenge for TL7 chars, where the quests are aimed towards TL4/TL5 chars).

    Mob HP in general (but catacombs are indeed a good example). Less HP, more tricks. Mob "AI" should be reworked in a way that it mimicks the behaviour of players more, in terms of using specials, buffs, and other profession tools, and not just randomly, but when it actually makes sense.
    I realize this would be a difficult thing to achieve without owerpowering the mobs too much, but even relatively small changes would make a noticeable difference and make encounters more fun than just having to grind your way through a huge HP bar.
    The composition of mobs in "on demand" instances could be adjusted with the composition of the team doing the instance in mind; the mobs spawned in that specific instance would use tricks that can be countered by the toolsets of the professions present in the given team (eg. you got a calmer? then we'll dynamically spawn lots of relatively weak mobs that break calm regularily, so the calmer can feel contributing by having to keep all the adds under control to prevent them from overwhelming the tank or just keep aggroing everyone around).
    Last edited by Honorbound; Nov 17th, 2010 at 10:16:06.

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  10. #10
    May the Sploitz be with u Ciex's Avatar

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  11. #11
    tl;dr

    nahh I kid, I kid

    Well, at the same time FC is giving dailies with lots of solo activity, but if you check the reblalance nano sheets, they are clearly nerfing the soloability of all profs. So I m not sure that the trend toward solo game is (completly) true.

    Having solo option is realy nice though. But huge bump for team versions giving more "rewards" than the solo one.

    About the pocket/ kite issue. Every person yelling to keep the OST/Kite working were doing so because of the lack of alternatives.

    Now that daily/doja/quest rewards are ingame with realy good alternative :
    * forbid outside tanking
    * remove kitability.
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  12. #12
    i would like to see teaming in more important role in end game instances.
    it is just stupid to make 2 player pande 'raid' that lasts 6 hours..

    having a 'real need for tank' and doctor.. also WoW has incredible brilliant enrage timer on bosses!
    if battle lasts too long, boss goes berserk and start to deal insane damage which prevents 6h fights and gives DD toons a purpose!

    Level instances (non OSTable) would also be nice to get XP.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Honorbound View Post
    The increase in soloable content was/is required because of declining population, and a significant part of the playerbase not being interested in actual team activities other than grinding hecks or Inf missions anyway.
    So something had to be added for players who refuse to join such teams but still would like to be able to level at a reasonable pace and enjoy actually playing the game.
    Very true. And even without the declining population, there are still some people that prefer to do most of their gaming solo. However, there is a dangerous downward spiral here. Adding solo content because of declining population isolates people which in turn leads to less reasons for sticking with the game which leads to less population...

    So, the idea is not to "force" team play, but rather to give incentives for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Honorbound View Post
    The composition of mobs in "on demand" instances could be adjusted with the composition of the team doing the instance in mind; the mobs spawned in that specific instance would use tricks that can be countered by the toolsets of the professions present in the given team (eg. you got a calmer? then we'll dynamically spawn lots of relatively weak mobs that break calm regularily, so the calmer can feel contributing by having to keep all the adds under control to prevent them from overwhelming the tank or just keep aggroing everyone around).
    I aboslutely love that idea.

    Oh, and for the OST haters, as it relates to this post, OST is actually a good thing. In many Ely heck teams where there is a pocket the rest of the team sits around and chats every once in awhile. True, it's not exactly the binding community that we're looking for, but at least these people are teamed and chatting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunfytr View Post
    I have played my toon 280 days. You have played ur toon 36 days. My toon is better. Get over it.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Hvyshadows View Post
    OST is actually a good thing. In many Ely heck teams where there is a pocket the rest of the team sits around and chats every once in awhile.
    Helooooooo sig!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vgman01 View Post
    With a kite team you generaly pay for your lvls. Imo this makes it ok..
    Quote Originally Posted by Vgman01 View Post
    Pocket teaming is fine to because (most of the time) players actualy step up and kill the hecklers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hvyshadows View Post
    OST is actually a good thing. In many Ely heck teams where there is a pocket the rest of the team sits around and chats every once in awhile.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Metafizis View Post
    Helooooooo sig!
    Wewt! Out of context siggys are ftw. Hvy r famouz!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunfytr View Post
    I have played my toon 280 days. You have played ur toon 36 days. My toon is better. Get over it.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Hvyshadows View Post
    OST is actually a good thing. In many Ely heck teams where there is a pocket the rest of the team sits around and chats every once in awhile.
    lol that's kind of a stretch mister

  17. #17
    Ah, Bia, don't fall for the mis-quote. Let me try this again and highlight the important part:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hvyshadows View Post
    Oh, and for the OST haters, as it relates to this post, OST is actually a good thing. In many Ely heck teams where there is a pocket the rest of the team sits around and chats every once in awhile. True, it's not exactly the binding community that we're looking for, but at least these people are teamed and chatting.
    The purpose of this thread is simply to find ways to encourage people to get into teams. OST hate can be saved for another thread because, love them or hate them, at least those people had to have some sort of interaction with another player in the game. And invariably, while they wait for the pocket to come back with the next round, or while they sit and watch an NT do his work, there is some kind of chatter, tenuous bonds are formed, etc. I met some of the people that I'm still close with in game while in pocket teams in Ely on my shade lo these many years ago.

    Ini any case, those people are in a team, which is the whole point I'm trying to make here. There's lots of other threads where OST hate can be vented. Let's not de-rail this one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunfytr View Post
    I have played my toon 280 days. You have played ur toon 36 days. My toon is better. Get over it.

  18. #18
    Teaming is one of my biggest complaints about MMOs in general. The concept of a MMO is to play online with alot of other people. Yet we are penalized for teaming(XP reductions). Where as I think it should be the other way around and you should be rewarded.

    I will use Shaiya as an example as I have alot of experience with that game. One thing they do that I love when it comes to teaming is called a perfect team bonus. How it works is simple for each person you add to the team you lose X ammount of XP per kill just like AO but, when you reach a perfect team(6 in the case of Shaiya just as AO) you get double XP. The reward is only given if the people are in the same zone though and actually working togather. Think of it like the XP lose from being too far from you team except you get a bonus when your togather.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Hvyshadows View Post
    Ah, Bia, don't fall for the mis-quote. Let me try this again and highlight the important part:

    The purpose of this thread is simply to find ways to encourage people to get into teams. OST hate can be saved for another thread because, love them or hate them, at least those people had to have some sort of interaction with another player in the game.
    oh i know what you meant it just made me laugh is all ^_^

  20. #20
    Teams chat regardless of OST or not. Fact.

    Only difference is that chat in non OST tends to be more game related and in OST its more like "Woohoo my favorite TV show is due".

    OT: To encourage your kind of teaming you need a few more Dark ruins, S7 type thingies. Where xp is decent and loot is viable.

    tl;dr version, deleted a wall of text.
    Last edited by Metafizis; Nov 18th, 2010 at 06:04:33.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vgman01 View Post
    With a kite team you generaly pay for your lvls. Imo this makes it ok..
    Quote Originally Posted by Vgman01 View Post
    Pocket teaming is fine to because (most of the time) players actualy step up and kill the hecklers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hvyshadows View Post
    OST is actually a good thing. In many Ely heck teams where there is a pocket the rest of the team sits around and chats every once in awhile.

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