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Old Jan 19th, 2013, 20:28:08   #41
Armus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belph View Post
When everyone else is paying a higher upkeep, they'll have less to spend. Prices will adjust
Yes, prices in number of credits will go down eventually. However bots will be exactly as rare and ppl will have to do whatever work they do just as long to buy the same bot.

This might be a an effective way to force ppl into bigger orgs but it does nothing to "fix" the economy. Those with insane ammounts of creds to drive prices up will also have the best stamina and so it's those with leds money that gets hit the hardest.

If anything the spending power of joe sixpack relative to bot prices will go down since fewer ppl will farm bots.
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Old Jan 19th, 2013, 20:44:45   #42
Liwa
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Originally Posted by Genele View Post
Only a few cities have as low as 22 mil/month upkeep and I don't think most of them could room a tax office. I can't modify everything to the lowest amount of upkeep possible. I have to aim towards an average. I won't deny that the price for a fully "furnished" city is at the high end, but this is for the good of the economy of the game. The organizations that can afford it should be able to have it. I also won't deny that I have made my decisions to encourage you all to make larger organizations and play together..

A city plot that could fit all buildings would not cost less than 100 mil/month in the outdoor cities. I have gone through them and the largest city plot had an upkeep above 150 mil/month and most decent sized city plots were all close to 100 mil/month or higher.

I have increased the upkeep for the smaller cities, yes. But you can now decide how high upkeep you can afford to have as your organization expands. No one is forcing you to place all buildings at once. To have an operational city you would need HQ, Satellite Uplink and an ECM tower. That is 35m/month in a small city and 45m/month in a large city built to expand. This is a lower upkeep than the serenity island city.
An average of outdoor rents would be between 22M and say 150M or near 90M for a fully furnished city. A large city with all the buildings comes to 130-140M dependng on how many Wampas you build. To me, 140M is much much higher than 90M and location is no longer an advantage to warrant the high end of the range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinealta View Post
I also agree with Kinnik ... these rents are too high. We were told the new large city would cost no more than the current Serenity Islands cities. My fully built Serenity Islands city has a rent of 46M ... the new large city costs 45M with the absolute minimum buildings. How is that "no more than" when it will exceed my current rent as soon as I add one 5x5 building beyond the minimum?

Cine
Yes! I recall this also, we were would told rents on the new large city would be equal or similar to the rent on the Serenity medium cities. What happened to that promise?

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Originally Posted by Cinealta View Post
Another thought ... weren't we told the rent/upkeep would only go up for "beneficial" buildings? Neither the ECM or the Sat Uplink provide members with any "city benefits". Why do they add to the monthly rent/upkeep?

Also, if a 20x20 large HQ adds 20M for 400 square units of space ... why is a 5x5 building that has 25 units of space 5M? Using cost per unit of space a 5x5 should only be a bit more than 1M or 1/16th the cost of the large HQ.

Cine
I have this question/concern also ... why is rent increasing for Sat Uplink, ECM, and Wampas? None of them povide City Benefits. Why do we even need Sat Uplink ... Serenity cities do not have them. Can we expect Random attacks inside these instanced cities now? We should not need the ECM building to trigger a raid for an instanced city ... it is only a method for placing lockouts on raids.

At a minimum the ECM-lockout is not Beneficial, it limits our access to raiding, how does this warrant paying 15M extra per month in order to apply a lockout timer.

And 2M rent for a Wampa???

Kinnik
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Old Jan 19th, 2013, 21:19:25   #43
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I agree that ECM and cloak could be dealt away with and just cut that much from city... Helps the setup too...
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Old Jan 19th, 2013, 21:25:48   #44
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According the patch note the price of upkeep is based on the length of the buildings square, 1m per block. So the HQ is not 20x20 but 20m, four times a 5x5 building.

This is why the whompah cost 2M, even if they shouldn't cost anything because they have no stats. Okay you can teleport out but with such tiny effect I'd rather keep em away. Same for many buildings with have little advantage given.
I don't really like where this is going and rather recreate a small hq tiny base right now.
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Old Jan 19th, 2013, 21:26:39   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
Why do we even need Sat Uplink ... Serenity cities do not have them.
Quote:
At a minimum the ECM-lockout is not Beneficial, it limits our access to raiding, how does this warrant paying 15M extra per month in order to apply a lockout timer.
Without an ECM, you have no control over the cloak. So you cannot lower it to raid. Period.

The radar tower, on the other hand, is completely optional. All it does is send alerts to org chat to let you know the aliens are actually coming after you drop the cloak.
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Old Jan 19th, 2013, 22:12:54   #46
randymp
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You have caught on .... FC does nothing to attract and or keep players, just about every decision they have made recently has been a ploy to drive people away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikaria View Post

if your trying to make peeps leave AO why not make the rent 3X higher. some orgs dont want loads of players as it causes drama my org has 6 members cos we all share the same thing about ao we like our little group and dont realy want others in the org, we will help other none org member but not recrute as we like our private space, the new pricing will mean unless were to farm we will have to get more players. sorry but we dont want that.

lower rents please
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Old Jan 19th, 2013, 22:20:46   #47
Liwa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltgun View Post
According the patch note the price of upkeep is based on the length of the buildings square, 1m per block. So the HQ is not 20x20 but 20m, four times a 5x5 building.

This is why the whompah cost 2M, even if they shouldn't cost anything because they have no stats. Okay you can teleport out but with such tiny effect I'd rather keep em away. Same for many buildings with have little advantage given.
I don't really like where this is going and rather recreate a small hq tiny base right now.
If you look on a city map, you can fit 16 of the 5x5 bldgs in the same block One large HQ fits.

If rent is based on building size rather than on reaching artificially high rent amounts to create a credit sink ...

The 5x5 bldgs should only increase rent by 1M if a large HQ is 20M rent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorOutage View Post
Without an ECM, you have no control over the cloak. So you cannot lower it to raid. Period.

The radar tower, on the other hand, is completely optional. All it does is send alerts to org chat to let you know the aliens are actually coming after you drop the cloak.
I would bet the only reason we need an ECM is because FC programmed it that way for outdoor cities when we had random attacks. I-cities don't get random attacks do they?

Even if FC does not change the rent numbers for the building of large cities ... the rent for the small city plot with the "minimum" buildings is too high. We have a medium outdoor city now with grid, mining ops, large HQ, room for guard house, etc where our market was and our rent is 22M.

35M for a minimal small city with 18.6 is just way too high.

Kinnik
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Old Jan 19th, 2013, 23:24:49   #48
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I've gotta say Genele I'm very disappointed with your post..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genele View Post
I also won't deny that I have made my decisions to encourage you all to make larger organizations and play together..
That's a big problem for me.. It's really not your call how we play this game.. We're the customers paying your wages.. If we want to split out into thousands of small orgs we will, and your interfering in our playstyle is quite frankly not appreciated.. But out! You guys keep doing **** like this 'for the good of the economy' or whatever and all it does is alienate a few more players who end up leaving.. Cater for every org large and small..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genele View Post
I have increased the upkeep for the smaller cities, yes. But you can now decide how high upkeep you can afford to have as your organization expands. No one is forcing you to place all buildings at once. To have an operational city you would need HQ, Satellite Uplink and an ECM tower. That is 35m/month in a small city and 45m/month in a large city built to expand. This is a lower upkeep than the serenity island city.
45m per month is more than my current 42m per month for a lot more buildings.. I'm guessing but judging by the other posts that have posted prices, my new city will be between 85-105m per month for basically the same layout we have now.. Yes, you certainly did increase the prices of smaller cities.. 200-250% is quite an increase.. And imo, completely unjustifed..


I pay for our org city, I always have.. It used to be partially covered by the market until that monstrocity that is the GMI was foisted upon us.. And now we're being given a Tax building, for 15m per month, that will recoup 1% of the GMI sales tax.. So basically, not worth the effort of installing.. GG!

And to all you credit whores out there who don't care about the prices because you're charging 500m a pop for lootrights.. Just remember that you're a minority in AO rather like the 1% is on RK4.. Your opinions don't mean jack....
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Old Jan 19th, 2013, 23:26:06   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randymp View Post
you have caught on .... Fc does nothing to attract and or keep players, just about every decision they have made recently has been a ploy to drive people away.
qft!
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Old Jan 19th, 2013, 23:55:23   #50
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I'm well aware of all that advice. Here's my observation:

1) All but one of the above links depends on other people wanting to buy the stuff you have. I think the time I play, AO is virtually deserted. I have bags and bags of Dyna Nanos that I spam OOC Shopping with and have gotten nowhere with. I probably have 2 of everything listed as "valuable" in the lists above (except Grid armors and Nullity Spheres -- though it's possible I might have 1 GA 1 or 2 lying around).

2) Most suggestions depend on luck of the drop. If you farm for hours straight, you might stand a chance at getting lucky, but if you do four RK missions, you are unlikely to find a NCU in a treasure chest much less a Grid Armor ID.

1.5M / hr of shopfooding into Trader shop. That's what I'm looking at because that's the most reliable method of earning credits. My alternative is to farm a month and hope to find a GA to cover our city upkeep and if not, we let the city go poof and we start over again?
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Old Jan 19th, 2013, 23:59:04   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genele View Post
I also won't deny that I have made my decisions to encourage you all to make larger organizations and play together..
Is this upkeep change really promoting people to play together or will it do the opposite? If people have to pay more for their cities I don't think they're going to just swap over to a bigger org as much as farm more of 'whatever' to be able to pay the upkeep. Since farming tends to be more effective when you do it solo (and usually multi-logged) I would guess that it would cause people to spend more of their time playing alone. The flip side being that it could just aggravate the smaller orgs enough that they get frustrated with spending their game time farming and just go play a game that is more entertaining.

Care to elaborate on what you feel will happen in terms of players shifting to larger orgs and playing together more? Also..

1. Are you making any changes to spawn timers or drop rates in synch with the server merge or just throwing twice the number of people on one server and hoping things work for the best?

2. Is the org only shop functionality that was part of the GMS ever going to see the light of day, in some form, via the GMI?
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Old Jan 20th, 2013, 00:17:32   #52
Liwa
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Ok, lets assume 20M for a large HQ is reasonable and 15M base rent for a large city plot is also ...

Based on those values the rents should be as follows;

Sauna, Grid House, Guard House ... 1M each
Notum Silo ... 10M
Mining Operations, ECM ... 5M each
Tax Refund bldg ... 10M
Sat Uplink ... 1M

Those buildings plus base rent totals ... 70M vs the 105M using TL prices. The above is what the building prices should be using 20M for a large HQ as a reference point. I still think the ECM and Sat Uplink should be free until they get integrated into the CC.

A fully built large city would be more of course, but the additional buildings need their prices fixed also ...

Kinnik
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Old Jan 20th, 2013, 00:26:21   #53
MajorOutage
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Just an FYI: The Pool is currently set to 17.5m/month.
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Old Jan 20th, 2013, 00:57:27   #54
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seriously ???? WTH !!

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Old Jan 20th, 2013, 02:01:21   #55
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Just built a full large city on TL.. it's at 140.5M rent atm...
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Old Jan 20th, 2013, 02:27:31   #56
Deemure
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I have often accused fc development team of loose and wistful thinking, but this time it appears there was a predetermined position and no thinking was needed.

Who determined the relative value of the building should be based on size, and even once that decision was made was any thought whatsoever done about scaling the size to fit the FUNCTIONALITY OR BENEFITS of the building. As a result, we have a useful building, the guard house for instance costing 5M/month in rent, for which you get an ok useful buff. Similarly the Mining building is (nano tab) 10M month. High, in my opinion, but generally logical (within the distortion of the release logic at least and semi-consistent with the hq cost). Then we have the swimming pool. 17.5M for body development, tax building 15M for essentially nothing useful at the proposed 1% return. These are just a couple examples. Could at least some though go into adjusting the rents to fit the benefit? As it is, this is another decent concept badly implemented. I do wish fc could get over themselves and actually do something like this that makes sense and LIVES UP TO THEIR PRIOR COMMITMENTS. Bottom line funcom. You have said previously what you were going to do, now do what you said you were going to do.

Last edited by Deemure; Jan 20th, 2013 at 02:37:56.. Reason: mistyped the swimming pool cost per month
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Old Jan 20th, 2013, 02:32:07   #57
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my calc was with out the sauna as i had to destroy the city due to planting the wrong HQ, i asked in icc for a new sauna for the test and the only reply i got was " "

yes that means i dnt get a reply.
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Old Jan 20th, 2013, 02:35:37   #58
Rikaria
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dont forget somewere there was a post saying theres going to be another patch to test soon(TM) what will we get suprised with next.

/troll on

(1m charge per bit of AI armor per month)

/troll off
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Old Jan 20th, 2013, 04:44:03   #59
Pinknpinker
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Cool Rent the same for me

I bought a city in 3cratersE and my monthly rent is the same as my city on TL atm. My highest toon is 130 paid but is gimp due to its status as a stalled project atm. I borrow an in-game friends 200 FROOB MP and with giving him half the profits I easily make 100mil a month to pay the rent just doing high lvl RK dynas and shopping everything as well as selling some of the drops(not counting the ones i give away). I have no org mates as I have always wanted a city and just bought one for the pleasure of having one. I dont farm bots atm.

If I had org-mates that used the city in any way (trade-skill buffing) they would be contributing or would not be in my org. 100 mil a month in this game is nothing if your willing to grind an hour or so when your on. IMO alot of ppl are just too lazy to grind even if they have bills to pay. Get with it or get over it. Sorry to be so harsh but that's just the way I see it when reading all these posts. Peace.
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Old Jan 20th, 2013, 05:47:05   #60
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We've have 2a in mort, on rk2 for 7 years, its never gone above 46m, with all the absolutely needed buildings. As much as it sucks my rent is DOUBLING with the same exact buildings, We'll take it as it comes. We might be a smaller org, but we've kept our city going through NO ONE being on for a few months to having a house full. We'll just deal with it as it comes, as we always have.
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