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Utopia
The continued search for an ideal community possessing a perfect socio-politico-legal system.
“ The first thing a child should learn is how to endure. It is what he will have most need to know. ” — Jean-Jacques Rousseau
I refer to the comment from genele about the economy. By that, upping the rents for cities provides a credit sink, true. However that is dysfunctional in the sense that its an attempt to sink credits from those holding them (ie those who prospered during the S10 bonus rewards days). Those who did not prosper during this time are probably those who are writing here complaining about the very high costs of cities.
Yes, cities should be at an expense that it takes an org to run one, however orgs are pretty small, through no fault of their own mostly due to the decreased player-base since AI came. You can't force people to org-hop just because it fits into your "conceptualised-credit-sink-to-fix-an-error-made-ages-ago-in-S10". People have these things, they're called relationships, and friendships are formed from them. What you're asking people to do is move home, away from their friends, which lets look at history when social segregation of the classes has been attempted by dictator type leadership. Yes, that's right, it backfired! The slaves rose up and fought their masters by predominantly voting with their feet. Ironically enough, that's what AO storyline is all about, however voting with their feet back in the real world may mean losing people whom at this time are pretty valuable to the game, should a course be chosen that attempts to break up virtual families.
Ultimately, to get the game running correctly, you not only have to take into consideration the mechanics and logical factors, but also the human factors also.
With that said, my suggestion would be to drop city rents (to about 50% or less of what the new rates would be) and then find another way to shave those creds from those that have them, and not to discriminate against those that weren't so lucky to have obtained them when they were going easily. After all, I ask you, what does this kind of anti-humane and discriminatory approach deliver to the new players you're hoping to attract?
Equilibrium may refer to: The condition of a system in which all competing influences are balanced, in a wide variety of contexts
Infinity may refer to: The state or quality of being infinite. A number greater than any assignable quantity or countable number (symbol ∞).
Vengeance may refer to: Vengeance (concept) or revenge, a harmful action against a person or group in response to a grievance
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"Not a rant, not a flame. Just another perspective."
if you can not afford the upkeep ,do not own one maybe this way you will have more orgs with more then 10 active players. i wish they make it 300m
No way, 300m a month is way to complicated for my morphing memory farming business.
"Remember me? The one you got your technique from?"
The worst possible response you could give when asked for proof of your statements.
wanna bet that if they made the upkeep at least 500m you will have more 'big orgs' around? could be a way to gather the community into larger groups then everyone and their alts owning a farming org
Been here, done this...
Time to move on...
Sorry, but you were never actually in S10, were you? It added some creds to the economy, but not nearly as much as you seem to think. Realistically, less than 50 billion. Ingots added considerably more than that, and the many exploits over the years have added way more. I had 2 different S10 twinks, trader and enforcer. AI armor, dchest, best symbs for a 150, modified notucomm trenchcoat, shroud of darkest night, etc. Both fully decked out, few upgrades left to go, but worth close to 1b each just counting gear (at the time, worth considerably less now that symb market plummeted). I spent a large amount of time in S10 just farming trash mobs for bounties. Alien level 11-19 on one and 10-16 on the other were spent farming trash mobs. I made maybe 350m from bounties.
I can see the reasoning behind wanting the rent to be lower, but asking for 50% reduction is too far. The minimum a large city should be, with a good amount of benefits, is 60-70m/month. Which is already about where it is.
15m Plot
20m Large HQ
10m Mining Operations
10m ECM
5m Grid
5m Sat Uplink
15m Notum Silo
That's 80m/month. It'd go up slightly for Guard House (heard they added HD to that?) and Swimming Pool (although I don't recall what benefit that gives). Still only around 90-100m/month. And that's exactly where it should be. You're going to pay more for the Tax Building and Sauna, but those don't give stats. If you can't afford ~100m/month, then get the smaller city and handle less benefits. In a game like AO where a lot of people are clamoring for "the good old days" where decisions mattered, it's ridiculous to suddenly hear that people want to be handed benefits for no effort.
I built a S10 toon, put 2 bill into him, took a week break after he was finished and then... bounties were removed. My 150 MA still pwned for PvM but I never made those 2 bill back or made any profit our of S10 and I can afford to cover my org's rent. Most of the S10 farmers either rage quit or leveled up and made creds at higher lvl.
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It seems that some of those who have massive amounts of credits want to force a particular game style on everyone, or never have a toons that can be all it can be. The problem with this approach is that this game has never been about one play sytyle fitting all players. My concern is that the high rents seem to conflict with stated intent to try to recover the player base. The two actions are not consistent. Our org is neither big nor small and consists almost exclusively of players fed up with big org requiring massive donation/taxs to pay for pvp, leaders that denigrate others because they are new or don't have billions of credits, and drama. The bad leadership in some orgs is legendary. So lets force people into a situation they don't want to be in and make to excessively difficult for the casual player. Absurd. I do not agree with the "well I got mine so everyone else can go to h..." model of structuring a game. Rents should be in the range (large city) of 80-100M month. More will cause people to quit as it takes all their game time to pay the rent. Less makes it pretty easy to have city solo. As I have said, personally, I could pay even the existing rents for almost 40 years by myself, but I would prefer a game that actually has and encourages a mix of players and growing gamer population.
Last edited by Deemure; Jan 23rd, 2013 at 23:54:02.
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Most decent orgs, do not have org tax (or "pvp tax" even tho I never heard of this), but did have a market from which upkeep was being supported or depended on the generosity of the stronger members to keep org bank healthy. If any leader denigrated someone for being new to the game or not having the financial savings of a veteran... that person needs to rethink what an org leader is meant to be.
My org, will never have to worry about upkeep, because myself and the active vets in my org take care of it. We care about our city and the benefits which brings to everyone in the org. And we have a mix of hardcore and casual members, paid and froob. Oh yeah, we're not a large org either. We kick drama in the balls.
I think after the merge, is when org leaders will stand out by adapting and finding/creating solutions, or just blame everyone else for the things they will face.
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AO Universe - By Players, For Players! The #1 AO Fansite Worldwide - Site Founder (Retired). | AOSpeak - Unofficial AO Teamspeak 3 Server - Founder (Retired). | AO Recipebook - In-Game Recipe/Tradeskill Bot - Founder (Retired).
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Keep in mind: My posts are my own personal views and thoughts.
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AO Universe - By Players, For Players! The #1 AO Fansite Worldwide - Site Founder (Retired). | AOSpeak - Unofficial AO Teamspeak 3 Server - Founder (Retired). | AO Recipebook - In-Game Recipe/Tradeskill Bot - Founder (Retired).
Founding member of the Council of Truth Clerical Staff.
Keep in mind: My posts are my own personal views and thoughts.
There's a difference between "big org" and "Good Spirits". Storm is a "big org", but to get in you have to apply and go through an interview and peer-review process. Meanwhile, Good Spirits seems to be what you all have in mind when we say "big org". For those not on RK1, Good Spirits was (is?) an org that did spam invites outside of subway and got a reputation as the froob org that anyone serious about the game didn't want to be seen in.
If someone is depending on the ai raid drops to fund the city, i hope they have a backup plan. Due to wanting to get a high ql VTS, and cloudy disk, I've been farming ground raids for the past two weeks straight, would say an average of 3 times a day. In all those raids, I've managed to get a ql295 spiritual and a 287 arithmetic. My luck is typically bad anyway but that's what I've experienced with these raids. That's a fair bit of grinding away at Raids and nothing else just to try to get a drop to pay the rent.
And to respond to the comment about s10 and credit exploiting vets who have tons of creds to afford these new rent prices, that's all very well and good for them but have a thought for the newer players in game(or who will be coming into game) who never had the benefits of ingots, bounties, cred-exploits. It'll be a lot harder for them to earn the creds.
Personally, i've got enough creds hoarded away to pay the proposed rents for a few years but I'm trying to look at this from a general affordability scale across the whole player base, not just me or other vets who can afford it. I myself missed out on ingots and i pulled maybe 350m from s10, i made most of my creds through incessant and mindless farming of other stuff
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You made more from S10, than I ever did from there or ingots. Also the "exploit" creds you claim are in-game, where removed during the time of Means. Billions were removed, and the items bought with the credits were removed as well which made a LOT of people either rage quit or take a break from AO because they got burned due to other players greed. One of the most memorable things, is that a few people went and bought (with either exploit or chinese creds) pretty much all the high QL combined alien armor to then resell at a higher price... it was all removed, the creds and the items bought with them.
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Founding member of the Council of Truth Clerical Staff.
Keep in mind: My posts are my own personal views and thoughts.
I also sunk about a total of 3 billion on my s10 sol, MA, fixer so I'm actually a fair bit behind on return on investment from there...
With regards to cred-exploits, I have no knowledge of such things as I didn't have anything to do with it or the results of such exploits, nor knowingly know anyone who did so i made no comment about it when i was first initially commenting on how past economic climates should have nothing to do with current upkeep prices. It was Essch who brought it up as another way that creds flooded into the system so i just mentioned it as a reply to his comment. I in no way claim such creds exist nor do not exist anymore in the system so direct your opinion at him/her
RK2 - Pimpmyride 220 Engi!