Discussion of Suggestion Thread

[Tomium]

I am sure many of you may have questions as to why something is a certain way, or why things are formatted the way they are.

Others may have trouble with coming up with a concise way of suggesting something.

Please use this thread to discuss those, and any other issues, with the Suggestion thread. Thank you

[Traderjill]

1. Rather than have us post a bunch of questions, I feel it would be easier if someone first provided us with a general vision behind these changes. That alone would probably knock out 50-60% of the confusion.

2. Michi's comment sorta sounds like the plan is to tweak things. If that's the case, it would make sense to make sure content is thoroughly tested to insure that provided feedback is good/helpful.. especially as it pertains to group encounters. I'm not sure what type of things you guys are able to provide as incentives but perhaps now is a good time to sweeten the pot for testers. It might be a slightly manual process but it seems doable to be able to have focused testing of content and if you participate in X number of events you'll receive Y and be put in a raffle for I dunno.. a free GRACE or something. I personally got exhausted just trying to get raids together and gave up but that doesn't mean I don't want to test the endgame content.. I still do. Unfortunately, as a player, I simply don't have the resources to really encourage people to test.. you guys do.

3. Related to point #1: If we don't understand the vision behind these changes, it is tough to be able to tell you if things are working. On one hand it appears that the goal is perhaps to encourage teaming but then looking at all of the group quest buyable NoDrop nanos in the shops that discourage/interfere with teaming I'd say that definitely isn't a goal of this patch.

[Tomium]

I can't really speak on why what changes are being done. What I CAN talk about is the method in which we are gathering more information.

The idea here is that we want a way to have a repository of all of your suggestions, and make it easier on you to suggest them without the fear of derailing the thread, having the "popular" people ignore your idea, and thus, send it to the bottom, and to generally make it so that the devs have an idea as to what you are thinking.

The concise nature of the suggestions ensures that everyone who has an opinion gets their suggestion heard- as long as it conforms to some basic rules.

The rules are often a discussion point (as this type of thread has occurred in other forums of FC's), and the biggest misunderstanding is that the rules are there to stifle communication. Quite the opposite. We WANT suggestions. We're taking the time to catalogue them all, sort them out, present them to the devs, and make it easier than just trying to remember a forum post that is more than 6 sentences long.

I hope that at least explains how the CM's are working with the devs. Does that make more sense?

[Traderjill]

First, I think the format is great. I actually posted, in another thread, that something like this should have been done by you guys when 18.7 went to TestLive. I was honestly disappointed with the nonchalant manner which something so significant was handled. But anyway...

I understand that you don't have the answers, what I was trying to say is that you might want to poke someone (Genele, Michi, Macro) and have them give us some information on the point of the changes. Asking for feedback from people that may very well be confused about what is going on to begin with is creating double work.

As an example, a couple of my suggestions are asking that the cast cap on init debuffs be removed. Here's the thing. I have no understanding whatsoever why that was added to begin with. Perhaps there's a legit reason but since none was provided, the only thing I can do is tell you it is inconvenient to my playstyle and suggest you revert it back. Now Genele or Michi could come on the forums and provide perfect reasoning for such changes that may very well change my mind. The result would probably be another list of suggestions (from me) that are more in synch with their vision for their product.

I am assuming it is more efficient for you (or anyone) to deal with well informed suggestions rather than random ones based on ignorance.

I guess long story short, for me, is that until we get some sort of reasonable communication from the devs to help us get what they're doing.. asking for Suggestions on improving something they already know we clearly do not understand just feels insulting... but I gave my feedback anyway.

[Le-Quack]

i flamed the devs the most i gues, doesnt mean i hate you or anything, but i been in this game since 2003 and i get very emotional when i see how much time and effort that has been used on certain professions compared to others. ( i have 9 endgame professions )
what comes first in my head is keepers, why so little time on em when they been so bad for so many years that you barly find a keep online anymore.
http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=611981 ( some suggestions for you )

also i wonder about if battle station daylies can be given back with 3 missions each day agein like i was.
battlestation died even more with the nerf of those quests.

levling is a issue, mostly becose those who still plays has gone over the same playfields for 10 years years over and over, it can get a bit boring to level in the same places, inferno missions is the worst in my eyes. the mission place is ok but you kinda get tierd of levling in the same missions year after year. also a spirits should be summond or something to talk to when you kill the boss in inferno so you dont have to run the whole way back to get out.. kinda ben annoying for years, should also ben giving a exit in alien missions at the icc place you get from the unicorn commander. is this something funcom would consider? (fresh people dont have veteranpoints for recalls, and not evryone can afford to buy em)

also multiboxing has been a realy hot topic for so long now and people left game in rage becose of it.
i kinda suggested this many many mounths ago about remove /assist and /follow
it will kill the multibox affect and i hope it could be tested out in a patch to see.

[Cyberleet]

I am sure many of you may have questions as to why something is a certain way,

Why are agentnanos (consentration and evac-nanos) not stealthfriendly anymore?

would be cool if damage-mode for adv was not morph btw

[LyraJ]

Quick question - I don't necessarily want to duplicate suggestions, but there are quite a few that I second or would have suggested - do I quote the relevant initial post or pretend I never saw it and I'm the first one to suggest XXXXX?

[Raggy]

Question: Trader changes. Have these actually been dreamt up by someone who knows the intricacies of the class at 220 or by someone who has a vague idea of what various PvPers want and just throwing caution to the wind in regards to how the outcome affects the overall class?

[alfora]

Regarding shops, loot, and credits:
There are numerous threads about the credit problem, about the items that are available in shops, and the loot tables for mobs and mission chests.

I appreciate that the Newcomer's armor can be leveled up to 220. This helps newbies to save credits.

But there is still much junk in the shop terminals. The choice of weapons for newbies is limited. The -000 weapons in the shops don't help much because you cannot get their upgrades at low levels. Putting decent stuff in the loot tables of bosses (dynas, mission bosses) and mission rewards would help.

Locking the shop terminals (profession nanos) does NOT help!

Teaching newbies how to create implants is a good idea. Removing ready-made implant shops is NOT a good idea. Rather put good implant sets in the shops but DON'T lock the shops to professions!

And then there is the question about Neutrals as a faction...
I really want to know the motivation behind these changes.

[Genie]

Question: Nemesis nanos. These were a bad decision to begin with. Some are completely useless, others are overpowered, either way they do not serve the original intent. Any plans on having them removed?

[Phorum]

Why did MP shield get nerfed, only to be able to dual wield 2 shields now? My friend made an MP and said he was walking around with about 4.8K static def... Combined that with their new nano which allows them to convert damage taken to pets is redicilously OP. I have a 220 trox shade which in a duel, I had to drain his pet and then MR just to be sure I could perk him. I was at about 5.3k AR, and once I started dumping my big DD perks into him he just cast that nano to convert the damage to pets and he never once got below 1/2 HP..

I think it's a little harsh for them to have /godmode with the two shields PLUS they have instacast pets now. So if you kill their pets, all they do is instacast them back...

I suggest that if both shields are here to stay, can there be a decently long recharge on pet casting?

Edit: also- if the dual wield shields are here to stay, is there any plans on making the second shield in I believe it is the left hand to not be cutting through half of the players body? It kind of looks weird seeing a player running around with a big shield clashing through his or her entire body.

Thx, hope my seggustion helps!

[Themanwhonukes]

Phorum, i can't tell if you're trolling or not. Have you even tried pvping with mp? A double shielded mp has close to zero killing ability if yoy kill their pets. And for the record; we have a local cooldown on our pets aftwr 1st cast. And as a shade you can KILL our primary damage in a matter of two seconds. Now who is the real OP profession?

[Tomium]

/snip

These are good questions, but really have more to do with the overall game than just with this patch.

Regarding shops, loot, and credits:
There are numerous threads about the credit problem, about the items that are available in shops, and the loot tables for mobs and mission chests.

I appreciate that the Newcomer's armor can be leveled up to 220. This helps newbies to save credits.

But there is still much junk in the shop terminals. The choice of weapons for newbies is limited. The -000 weapons in the shops don't help much because you cannot get their upgrades at low levels. Putting decent stuff in the loot tables of bosses (dynas, mission bosses) and mission rewards would help.

Locking the shop terminals (profession nanos) does NOT help!

Teaching newbies how to create implants is a good idea. Removing ready-made implant shops is NOT a good idea. Rather put good implant sets in the shops but DON'T lock the shops to professions!

And then there is the question about Neutrals as a faction...
I really want to know the motivation behind these changes.

If you have a suggestion as to how to fix this, you should probably post that in the relevant thread

Question: Nemesis nanos. These were a bad decision to begin with. Some are completely useless, others are overpowered, either way they do not serve the original intent. Any plans on having them removed?

Make a suggestion about that in the relevant thread. No promises (as I clearly state in the OP of that thread), but you will know it has been looked at.

Quick question - I don't necessarily want to duplicate suggestions, but there are quite a few that I second or would have suggested - do I quote the relevant initial post or pretend I never saw it and I'm the first one to suggest XXXXX?

No. Please don't.


See, here's the thing-
These suggestions are not weighted. This means that everyone's voice is heard equally. Whether you want to "+1" it or not, this is not the time for that. For now, I ask that if you see something you agree with, know that it has been submitted on your behalf by someone else. It's that simple.

/snip
I suggest that if both shields are here to stay, can there be a decently long recharge on pet casting?

Sounds like you want to make a suggestion.


Thank you all for your enthusiasm. Some tips that are simply a help to me, that I would appreciate:

Please don't do this:

[Items]
I want candy
I want cheesecake
I want an Alpaca

Instead, please use this format:
[Items]I want candy
[Items]I want cheesecake
[Items]I want an Alpaca

I cannot emphasize how much I appreciate the fact that many of you have taken the time out to try and format things correctly- I sincerely appreciate it. Consider, again, that these are being transposed by hand. Anyone who has done data entry knows the pain of poor formatting ;D


Many of you have also had several questions for the devs. I have asked them to look at this thread, but this thread is not for that. This is simply to eliminate any confusion over the suggestion thread seen here.

[Baby]

No. Please don't.


See, here's the thing-
These suggestions are not weighted. This means that everyone's voice is heard equally. Whether you want to "+1" it or not, this is not the time for that. For now, I ask that if you see something you agree with, know that it has been submitted on your behalf by someone else. It's that simple.

I disagree a lot here.
Sure, filling the thread with "+1" "yeah I agree!!" etc is pointless, but to tell people to not suggest something, just because it's been suggested before is nonsense. The devs should see if something is demanded by many or just by one. Otherwise the thread makes no sense, because why does our opinion matter, when afterall, it comes down to if the devs are in the mood to give profession x some lub, or not? Regardless if 90% are pro/contra, because they don't know.

Basically, I'm questioning the whole sense of this entire forum, when as you said, devs only read the list you're going to give them. You didn't have to make a new thread, there are tons of threads with questions, suggestions and so on, you could have picked all that from. But you don't want to read threads that contain more than 6 sentences? Or aren't able to get the point? Close the forum then. What's the point in discussing things, when no one who should read it, reads it?

It technically means, we're dependant on your mercy, because we already know, whatever we're going to post on the forums will be unnoticed, until you make another thread where we are allowed to post some brackets.

Inacceptable.

[Tomium]

I disagree a lot here.
Sure, filling the thread with "+1" "yeah I agree!!" etc is pointless, but to tell people to not suggest something, just because it's been suggested before is nonsense. The devs should see if something is demanded by many or just by one. Otherwise the thread makes no sense, because why does our opinion matter, when afterall, it comes down to if the devs are in the mood to give profession x some lub, or not? Regardless if 90% are pro/contra, because they don't know.

What I said was, "this is not the time for that." It isn't. Plain and simple. I am sorry that you disagree. I will tell you that these suggestions are being curated. There is no "like" button, or need to repost suggestions. Once it is in, it is in. You waste time of both me, and you, by reposting things like that.

Basically, I'm questioning the whole sense of this entire forum, when as you said, devs only read the list you're going to give them. You didn't have to make a new thread, there are tons of threads with questions, suggestions and so on, you could have picked all that from. But you don't want to read threads that contain more than 6 sentences? Or aren't able to get the point? Close the forum then. What's the point in discussing things, when no one who should read it, reads it?

No... What I said was that the devs will be given these suggestions. Nowhere did I say that they won't read the forums, or that they don't. Please don't assume things about me, or the devs, nor put words in our mouths. If you feel like reading every suggestion thread ever made, and then making it into a nice and handy reference, I am sure the devs would look at it. Barring that, this is what we are going with. The Suggestion thread is just that. Suggestions. Not discussion or hyperbole. Have the discussion you want here, in this thread, or make a new one- just don't put it in the one we are trying to curate please.

It technically means, we're dependant on your mercy, because we already know, whatever we're going to post on the forums will be unnoticed, until you make another thread where we are allowed to post some brackets.

Inacceptable

I get the anger, but this kind of statement is really unfounded, and not justified. If you want to suggest something that you know that the devs will look at- do so and put it in the thread we have established. If you want to rant about something, or want to flesh out ideas, do so in a thread of your own, and then make a suggestion after that. If you can't boil your suggestion down to 2 sentences, then you need to refine it. It's that simple.

[Jovial]

Personally, I don't think anyone should browse the entire "Testlive Suggestions" thread to see if something has been posted before. Each person should do their own testing and post their own complete/comprehensive list of what they feel needs to be changed/adjusted.

When the list is compiled, and there are a pile of people each saying things like, "Trader drains need to be changed to a minute" or "Make Trader drains last twice as long" or "Up Trader drains to 40 seconds." What all those should equate to is, "Re-evaluate duration of Trader drains" to the developers.

It's important that items are seen multiple times, as it lends weight to the importance. If one person suggests that grafts not be removed, OK, it gets put on the list... but it's only as important as every other one-of suggestion. But, when there are 47 posts in a thread and 42 of them ask that grafts not be removed -- that's big (I made up those numbers btw).

[LyraJ]

Personally, I don't think anyone should browse the entire "Testlive Suggestions" thread to see if something has been posted before. Each person should do their own testing and post their own complete/comprehensive list of what they feel needs to be changed/adjusted.

When the list is compiled, and there are a pile of people each saying things like, "Trader drains need to be changed to a minute" or "Make Trader drains last twice as long" or "Up Trader drains to 40 seconds." What all those should equate to is, "Re-evaluate duration of Trader drains" to the developers.

It's important that items are seen multiple times, as it lends weight to the importance. If one person suggests that grafts not be removed, OK, it gets put on the list... but it's only as important as every other one-of suggestion. But, when there are 47 posts in a thread and 42 of them ask that grafts not be removed -- that's big (I made up those numbers btw).

This is more what I was thinking - especially after Tomium said that all they have to do is get on the list. That means that the "I've always wanted this" suggestions from one or two people have equal weight to the "This is a huge concern" from dozens or more.

Now, if the devs are unconcerned with the number of people that have problems with certain changes then that equal weight does meet their requirements. However the underlying thought process to that approach worries me.

[Baby]

No... What I said was that the devs will be given these suggestions. Nowhere did I say that they won't read the forums, or that they don't. Please don't assume things about me, or the devs, nor put words in our mouths. If you feel like reading every suggestion thread ever made, and then making it into a nice and handy reference, I am sure the devs would look at it. Barring that, this is what we are going with. The Suggestion thread is just that. Suggestions. Not discussion or hyperbole. Have the discussion you want here, in this thread, or make a new one- just don't put it in the one we are trying to curate please.

I didn't put words in anyone's mouth nor did I assume anything. You said the list will be definitely seen by devs (which is completely fine), but it automatically indicates, that the devs do not read the forum. Why? Because if they did, this list wouldn't be necessary. It's simple logics.

Every suggestion ever made? I thought it's just about 18.7? At least that's what you're stating on top of the thread.

I get the anger, but this kind of statement is really unfounded, and not justified. If you want to suggest something that you know that the devs will look at- do so and put it in the thread we have established. If you want to rant about something, or want to flesh out ideas, do so in a thread of your own, and then make a suggestion after that. If you can't boil your suggestion down to 2 sentences, then you need to refine it. It's that simple.

It is not unfounded and it is justified.
For almost two weeks the players were waiting for just any sign/post from just anyone responsible, but we didn't get anything. So we started doing it all on our own, making threads, giving lots of feedback etc. pp and now you come up with a thread like that forcing us to repeat it all (in two freaking sentences), because you don't want to read an entire thread.

Whatever. I'm done with all this.

[Phorum]

Baby- so you're saying Tomium is not allowed to attempt to gather a sorted or viable list for which contains legit idea's for the dev's and such to look at? They have to spend hours reading through half written ideas and cannot be helped along with a pre-set list? How can you make an assumption that the dev's don't look at the forums if they are getting a list from Tomium?

When we make suggestions, we as players do not know if what we are suggesting is even possible to do in game, or maybe it is but could or will impact a different part of our gameplay...

I'm sure and would like to hope that if there were any small issues or feedback that have little to no impact will be getting a tweak or change. However, most of the changes we give feedback on, just like most companies need to go through an approval and a sign off to implement. Can't expect the dev's to just select a particular piece of feedback from the forum and just start working on it by himself..

[orochi3]

Having 3 forum sections handling the upcoming changes is confusing.
There is the 18.7 update forum, then theres Game suggestions and also the Balance discussion.

Why not put them under the same section like for example "Coming soon" or "New Stuff" and then subsections like "polls" "urgent complaints" "future wishes" "Fan Designs for items/nanos" "General goal of devs"