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Thread: Agent answers are in!

  1. #1

    Agent answers are in!

    Concealment is more or less useless. Blitzing is more effective PvM, and in PvP it is too unreliable due to short range and lack of feedback in chat.

    Agents
    The issue was the usefulness of Concealment, mainly in sneaking missions and PvP.
    To the PvP issue of everybody using AS all the time, due to no need for sneaking, Gaute replied the following:
    "The fact that you can aim shoot someone that clearly can see you, that even might fight you, is the bug. We shall change that first, and then see what will be done with the balance of aimed shot in pvp."
    He added "The shadowlands will bring the agent a host of new methods of fighting the opponent, and he /she will be among the top 2 in damage output – at least on the paper We know things are hard to /really/ predict before things have been “running live” for some months."
    On sneaking versus blitzing he replied "It is more difficult to blitz missions with the Content Upgrade: Mission (14.8). Sneaking might become a more viable option… We have plans to make sure that concealment continues to work the way it was intended in the Shadowlands…" (edited the name of the upgrade, which he typed wrong )
    A bit unhappy we did not get any answer to if they are going to make conceal useful in PvP, but happy about the rest ^^
    Kind Regards
    Prince "Morphex" Olveda


    Agent Professional
    Proud Member of Legion
    [pic] [stat] [eqp]


    Unknown: "I am a nobody, and nobody is perfect; therefore, I am perfect"
    Scope755: "To all Devs: ISNT SOO COOL TO BE NOT WELCOME IN INFERNO SK TEAMS."

  2. #2
    here is the entire post for you guys wondering what the other professions got as replies too
    Hi guys,

    Sorry about the delay, but here's some feedback for your professions.

    Adventurers
    The concern brought up was Adventurer weaponry, with an emphasis on Pistols being a bigger concern than 1h Edged weapons, and weapon damage being the only offensive tool of the profession.

    The intention from the designers about pistols seems to be clear: Adventurers are supposed to be the best pistol users when using two pistols at a time. Tweaking the damage / multi-wield budget to suit this was mentioned, and I hope you will be content with the result. Shadowlands seem to be the target for this, though I'm not sure whether it will be in the actual Shadowlands, or for everybody.

    This goes somewhat for 1h Edged weapons too, but note that the Enforcer is very likely to rival the Adventurer on this weapon style though, as they will always have an awesome punch with any melee weapons.

    But, remember that Adventurers have healing too, and the specialty of morphs, both which will be build upon in SL. And as Gaute commented, "Remember, the adventurer is second best at a lot of things, which makes him a very well rounded profession."

    Agents
    The issue was the usefulness of Concealment, mainly in sneaking missions and PvP.

    To the PvP issue of everybody using AS all the time, due to no need for sneaking, Gaute replied the following:

    "The fact that you can aim shoot someone that clearly can see you, that even might fight you, is the bug. We shall change that first, and then see what will be done with the balance of aimed shot in pvp."

    He added "The shadowlands will bring the agent a host of new methods of fighting the opponent, and he /she will be among the top 2 in damage output – at least on the paper We know things are hard to /really/ predict before things have been “running live” for some months."

    On sneaking versus blitzing he replied "It is more difficult to blitz missions with the Content Upgrade: Mission (14.8). Sneaking might become a more viable option… We have plans to make sure that concealment continues to work the way it was intended in the Shadowlands…" (edited the name of the upgrade, which he typed wrong )

    Bureaucrats
    The black and white nature of the Psychic limits on charm and fear nanos was the issue, and Gaute's reply to the main concerns was "The black-and-whiteness is only there as a upper limit because our nano system is so “resist hostile”. Without it, the crat could easily solo monsters 50 levels above him from level 50…. The monsters will get so tough to charm with time, nano resist wise, that the crats will need all the psychology and nanoskills they can muster."

    He added some thoughts about crats in Shadowlands:
    "The crat will also with the shadowlands, shine forth as the only real crowd controller and battle leader! Their speeches and calm nanos will be ones that will really make a difference in the shadowlands.."

    Also, Gaute was not at all alien to the idea of Psychic debuffs, and when I mentioned it to Marius - who's responsible for perks - I got another smug face. Don't be too surprised if something like that comes along.
    feel free to comment on what you guys think
    Mattie, 209 GrandMaster OT Finalizer
    Agent Professional
    send me an email
    or visit us on irc.funcom.com

    "For everything that works, there was a time when it didn't."

  3. #3
    Am I reading this correctly?

    I got the following out of this:

    -Nerf bat coming on PvP AS with no clear fix on concealment.
    -We are going to attempt to distract you from your other issues with new stuff in Shadowlands.

    Can someone change my mind? please? I love my agent.
    Bliqz, Agent, Omni, Atlantean, "Iron Chef of Rubi-Ka"
    God is a bullet.

    ((The IC only RP forum is back. Bliqz is an Omni Extremist, and his posts IN THAT FORUM reflect that attitude. I can be reached by PM if you feel I have personaly offended you, and I will be happy to change/temper my post. Thank you, and have fun!))

  4. #4
    No Bliqz, it looks like you read it right.

    Evidence continues mounting that for everyone but enforcers, Shadowlands is coming as a $30 nerf-in-a-box.
    Taren "Jynne" Suitt, Level 216/16 Eternalist
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  5. #5
    You people jump to conclusions so fast.

    The way I read this (which is good imo) is this:
    Players shouldn't be able to use aimed shot like a uber damage fling, it should need concealment. This nerfs everyone else, making agents better at pulling off aimed shots (which is what I thought agents wanted). Code monkey wise, its gonna take them some time to work out concealment details to make it all work out right. In the end, agents will be the best at it and have a class defining skill. In shadowlands, you will do most uber damage. How is this a nerf to agents?

    -DE

  6. #6
    You people jump to conclusions so fast.
    Yah, it has all been ignore the positives and jump on the negatives lately. Oh well, I can't wait for Shadowlands.
    Rk1
    Emporio Nyderach Armani. Proud Member of Dragon Security Agency

  7. #7
    Originally posted by deatheyes
    You people jump to conclusions so fast.

    The way I read this (which is good imo) is this:
    Players shouldn't be able to use aimed shot like a uber damage fling, it should need concealment. This nerfs everyone else, making agents better at pulling off aimed shots (which is what I thought agents wanted). Code monkey wise, its gonna take them some time to work out concealment details to make it all work out right. In the end, agents will be the best at it and have a class defining skill. In shadowlands, you will do most uber damage. How is this a nerf to agents?

    -DE
    Yeah, I'm sure Agents want to be walking around with 8 Runspeed in Tower battles.

    Only way I could see this not being a Nerf is if they remove the 40% cap on Aimed Shot so it works like a head shot is supposed to work.

    Haven't seen much that's come out of their offices that isn't a nerf since the game began.

  8. #8
    Me and Mattie will of course be pushing on a concealment fix. I actually asked about it in my reply to the answers in the Professionals forum.

    I see this response as being very positive. First of all, FC has finally defined us a role. We will be 2nd best damage dealers in Shadowlands. And Aimed Shot will be getting a workover, hopefully also sneaking in PvP. I also like the "The shadowlands will bring the agent a host of new methods of fighting the opponent", probably aiming at new perks

    Cheer up guys!
    Kind Regards
    Prince "Morphex" Olveda


    Agent Professional
    Proud Member of Legion
    [pic] [stat] [eqp]


    Unknown: "I am a nobody, and nobody is perfect; therefore, I am perfect"
    Scope755: "To all Devs: ISNT SOO COOL TO BE NOT WELCOME IN INFERNO SK TEAMS."

  9. #9
    The answer seems fine to me. They don't say anything truly definitive in any direction of fix or nerf. They are simultaniously trying to address our concerns while clouding their answers as not to spoil the hype buildup for their box release in 4mo's.

    A bit of MMORPG wiz for you forum regulars (myself not being one), keep asking questions. and when you get answers, ask more questions. The most danger in a box release lies in what is not revealed. Beware the mystery of the new box, beware. I submit to the jury as evidence; UO-AoS (Feb12, 2003).

    But then again, embrace the box. it looks like a lot of fun and i wish it were comming out tommorrow.

  10. #10
    Originally posted by deatheyes
    You people jump to conclusions so fast.

    The way I read this (which is good imo) is this:
    Players shouldn't be able to use aimed shot like a uber damage fling, it should need concealment
    Which leaves Agents with a ONE time shot in a tower fight...Wait...this IS a positive! As soon as I get off my ONE shot and everyone can see me, I can go back to my mission and let the others in my org worry about towers...PFFT~ /sarcasm.

    Morphex - Yes, I am encouraged by the fact that FC is addressing the concealment issue, or at least that they are aware that it exists...and at your request, I will remain positive until Shadowlands comes out and I see what happens there...but if its a new line of DoT's, Im coming looking for YOU
    Bliqz, Agent, Omni, Atlantean, "Iron Chef of Rubi-Ka"
    God is a bullet.

    ((The IC only RP forum is back. Bliqz is an Omni Extremist, and his posts IN THAT FORUM reflect that attitude. I can be reached by PM if you feel I have personaly offended you, and I will be happy to change/temper my post. Thank you, and have fun!))

  11. #11
    Originally posted by Bionitrous


    Yeah, I'm sure Agents want to be walking around with 8 Runspeed in Tower battles.

    Only way I could see this not being a Nerf is if they remove the 40% cap on Aimed Shot so it works like a head shot is supposed to work.

    Haven't seen much that's come out of their offices that isn't a nerf since the game began.

    I always sneak in tower battles. Works well enough for me. My hope is that they give us the ability to reconceal again in the middle of the battle properly. It would be a huge nerf to rifle users who don't conceal though. No complaints from me there though.
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  12. #12
    Originally posted by Bliqz


    Which leaves Agents with a ONE time shot in a tower fight...Wait...this IS a positive! As soon as I get off my ONE shot and everyone can see me, I can go back to my mission and let the others in my org worry about towers...PFFT~ /sarcasm.

    Morphex - Yes, I am encouraged by the fact that FC is addressing the concealment issue, or at least that they are aware that it exists...and at your request, I will remain positive until Shadowlands comes out and I see what happens there...but if its a new line of DoT's, Im coming looking for YOU
    Yeah, with what? Your new DoTs?

    I will be waiting ^^
    Kind Regards
    Prince "Morphex" Olveda


    Agent Professional
    Proud Member of Legion
    [pic] [stat] [eqp]


    Unknown: "I am a nobody, and nobody is perfect; therefore, I am perfect"
    Scope755: "To all Devs: ISNT SOO COOL TO BE NOT WELCOME IN INFERNO SK TEAMS."

  13. #13
    Originally posted by Vixentrox



    I always sneak in tower battles. Works well enough for me. My hope is that they give us the ability to reconceal again in the middle of the battle properly. It would be a huge nerf to rifle users who don't conceal though. No complaints from me there though.
    That's the problem. In UO, you could break LOS and reconceal properly. In AO, it's broken. If this goes in without having a way to hide while you have agro on you, it's a Nerf.

    Picture this: You're in MMD and try to get an Aimed Shot off on me. Maybe you even do. Whatever. I agro you and then take off for the hills. You lose sight of me and I go to smoke a cigarette and talk to trader Stolts about his weiner.

    I'm 8 miles away and you can't hide.

    That's the stuff that's got to be fixed. Not only the 40m bugs with conceal. It's the crap like having agro from some monster on the floor below you in a mission and not being able to hide.

    The 'hidden' AS ought to blow your head off your shoulders. The regular AS ought to be able to be accomplished at any time. (Let's say it has a chance to be interrupted by a successful damage attempt on you or something).

    Perhaps they ought to introduce a new Hidden Shot skill and leave Aimed Shot alone (or even nerf it a bit). Hidden Shot would require you to be hidden. AFAIK, (and I'm pointing my finger at the word 'Friday' on my calendar here) I don't have to be hidden to 'aim'.

    Edit: I don't mind if they do this 'right'. I can get my conceal fairly high with my current implant setup. I just don't want it to be 'useless'. That's the problem. You Agents can get 1300 conceal while I can only get close to 1000 with your team buff. I'll do the IP expenditure for sure, it's just that I would hate to see this skill end up in the same arena as trying to sneak a mission. NNANE (no non-agents need apply).
    Last edited by Kingfish; Apr 11th, 2003 at 21:41:33.

  14. #14
    I know everyone, including myself, has become dependant of the temp fix for pvp as i call it. I agre, AS is not an uber Fling, it is something that is supposed to be totally involved. How many of you ppl actually target shoot things at 500 meters w/o a scope in real life, IT'S HARD. LOL:P

    I know, it's gonna be a bitch when SL is released, but as I take it, there will be a total re-tooling of the AS / Conceal symbiosis, and I have hope it will be the one that is needed. If not, it will be the deathbell for agents in all of RK that are old school (pre-SL). The new ones won't know better, and we'll all move on to the next game.

    I'm already looking at SWG and Shadowbane..... maybe we can all move in and take their perimeter and claim a server as our own if SL destroys us

  15. #15
    Well it's hard to be sure what they mean w the as/conceal answer. It could either mean they intend to make as a one time shot not usable again untill fight is over like in pvm or it could mean you'd also have to pass a conceal vs perception check but if you pass it you can have multiple as's in one fight.

    The way they formulated it and the fact that fc is not doing anything but quick fixes before shadowlands leads me to believe they intend to do nr 1. Ie everyone will be able to get one of in a fight if they pass the conceal vs perception check, but never a second in the same fight. That would be a huge overall nerf for as and especially for agents as there aren't any other weapon choices that agents can achieve similar damage with. Maybe ask for some clarification on what exactly they are thinking off?
    If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

  16. #16
    Morph and mattie,
    I have read it three times and have come to the conclusion that the person who answered did not understand your question. It seems like your question was about fixing conceal; however, the answer was in regards to the ability to AS without concealing. I'll read it again.

    -Arsine

    p.s. I like the sound of where our damage is going(or supposed to be going).

  17. #17
    Originally posted by arsiine
    Morph and mattie,
    I have read it three times and have come to the conclusion that the person who answered did not understand your question. It seems like your question was about fixing conceal; however, the answer was in regards to the ability to AS without concealing. I'll read it again.

    -Arsine

    p.s. I like the sound of where our damage is going(or supposed to be going).
    yes, they didnt address my concerns with the range issues, getting stuck in ruse3, etc. ill be talking to cz about this next time i see him. my biggest issue with conceal was getting the bugs ,the 40m range, and feedback like in pvm. they didnt talk about this at all.
    Mattie, 209 GrandMaster OT Finalizer
    Agent Professional
    send me an email
    or visit us on irc.funcom.com

    "For everything that works, there was a time when it didn't."

  18. #18
    Originally posted by Mattie


    yes, they didnt address my concerns with the range issues, getting stuck in ruse3, etc. ill be talking to cz about this next time i see him. my biggest issue with conceal was getting the bugs ,the 40m range, and feedback like in pvm. they didnt talk about this at all.
    Same. thx.

  19. #19
    Originally posted by deatheyes
    You people jump to conclusions so fast.

    The way I read this (which is good imo) is this:
    Players shouldn't be able to use aimed shot like a uber damage fling, it should need concealment. This nerfs everyone else, making agents better at pulling off aimed shots (which is what I thought agents wanted). Code monkey wise, its gonna take them some time to work out concealment details to make it all work out right. In the end, agents will be the best at it and have a class defining skill. In shadowlands, you will do most uber damage. How is this a nerf to agents?

    -DE
    - Err well we going to loose the ability to AS while not concealed so that means no more AS with 100% crit running, it means no more than 1 AS during each fight. That is a huge AS nerf nothing less.

    - We'll be top 2 in damage in SL at least on the paper.. So who is the other prof in top 2? NT? MA? Of course knowing FC this probably means enforcer will be top damage dealer, then maybe whoever was meant to be top 2 "on the paper" after that. Well devs I got a message for you: Its not hard to estimate how much damage professions will do in practice: You know all the formulas, you got all the code. Use them if balance is your goal!

    So these are the answers we've been waiting months for? Seems like we got a whole 2min of attention from the devs. Wow!

    If they going to nerf AS which means another dmg nerf for alot of profs, when are they going to fix the totally and utterly ridiculous PvP imbalance between heals and damage? Shoot for 200 - 300, heal for 1200 or 10k. It seems they're more interested in selling Shadowlands than answering todays issues, well maybe they should give us more info how we can (if we will be able) counter that imbalance in SL then.

  20. #20
    Originally posted by Myga


    - Err well we going to loose the ability to AS while not concealed so that means no more AS with 100% crit running, it means no more than 1 AS during each fight. That is a huge AS nerf nothing less.

    - We'll be top 2 in damage in SL at least on the paper.. So who is the other prof in top 2? NT? MA? Of course knowing FC this probably means enforcer will be top damage dealer, then maybe whoever was meant to be top 2 "on the paper" after that. Well devs I got a message for you: Its not hard to estimate how much damage professions will do in practice: You know all the formulas, you got all the code. Use them if balance is your goal!

    So these are the answers we've been waiting months for? Seems like we got a whole 2min of attention from the devs. Wow!

    If they going to nerf AS which means another dmg nerf for alot of profs, when are they going to fix the totally and utterly ridiculous PvP imbalance between heals and damage? Shoot for 200 - 300, heal for 1200 or 10k. It seems they're more interested in selling Shadowlands than answering todays issues, well maybe they should give us more info how we can (if we will be able) counter that imbalance in SL then.
    dont be so negative myga. they are stopping support for our fp/mimc ability, making some major changes to aimedshot as well. these are major abilities we will be loosing so i have to believe they have some even better stuff planned for us in shadowlands.

    if we are to jump from the mid range damage we do now up to the #2 spot, all while loosing fp/mimic and mid fight aimedshots, there must be something huge planned for us. lets see what it is before we get all upset
    Mattie, 209 GrandMaster OT Finalizer
    Agent Professional
    send me an email
    or visit us on irc.funcom.com

    "For everything that works, there was a time when it didn't."

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