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Thread: MP Wishlist: Saints touch?

  1. #1

    MP Wishlist: Saints touch? it's about pet NR so give it some support will you?

    I've been thinking about the very often dicussed NR on pet's, and as X told me in an other thread this hasn't been put on our wishlist, so here it goes?

    QL75 "Priest's Touch"

    Cast skills:
    Time&Space: 535
    MatCreat: 535
    PsyMod: 495
    Level req: 75

    On cast:
    Nanocost: 1000
    Nano attack/recharge: 10s/5s
    NCU usage: 50
    Duration: Until pet expires (or 30 minutes)


    Effects:
    +75 To NR of pet
    5% chance of reflecting roots/calms back to caster



    QL150 "Deacon's Touch"

    Cast skills:
    Time&Space: 735
    MatCreat: 735
    PsyMod: 695
    Level req: 150

    On cast:
    Nanocost: 2000
    Nano attack/recharge: 10s/5s
    NCU usage: 75
    Duration: Until pet expires (or 45 minutes)


    Effects:
    +145 To NR of pet
    10% chance of reflecting roots/calms back to caster



    QL189 "Saints Touch"

    Cast skills:
    Time&Space: 865
    MatCreat: 865
    PsyMod: 795
    Level req: 189-190

    On cast:
    Nanocost: 3000
    Nano attack/recharge: 10s/5s
    NCU usage: 100
    Duration: Until pet expires (or 1hour)


    Effects:
    +200 To NR of pet
    15% chance of reflecting roots/calms back to caster



    Description:
    By calling on the powers of the universe's metaphysical beings while forming the nanobotclouds, the meta-physicist focuses his anger to a impervious shield around his pet. Hostile nanos will be repelled from the shield and have a small chance of rebounding in direction of the attacker, and if hit he will think twice before he tries to controle someone elses emotions in the future.




    Now I'm not sure about the numbers, there are many of you who have much better understanding of such things than what I do.
    However, I think this sort of nano could be very helpfull in PVP.

    The only problem I see is that the new Inner Sanctum pets might become redundant, or even imposible to hit with nanos. Although nice for us, not good for anyone else, so maybe a check so it can't be used on urn pets?


    What do you guys and gals think?


    Edit: added 2 higher ql versions, removed health penalty for pets, and gave the nanos a set NR value based on pets having virtualy no NR to begin with.

    Edit. Changed names, thnx Cozy

    Edit. Changed NR as X says the pets do have NR to begin with, changed the % chance of reflecting nano back to caster, again using X's suggestion

    Edit. Added level restrictions.
    Last edited by Hexar/Tarilliux; May 13th, 2003 at 08:52:02.
    I want to be a campaign!!
    Tarilliux MP fun,fun,fun (should have been a crat with a name like this )
    Hexar ::::Nanotech::::
    Imothar Engie (For once on the recieving end of MP buffs)


    And a few other lowbies can't for the life of me remember their names

  2. #2
    I think you need to have different level versions of this for low and high level MPs. People need NR on pets way before they can reach those reqs.

    Nanocost and NCU space seem high, though I don't suppose its a big deal.

    Why -50% of the health on the pet?
    Clan Elder of The Pilgrims

  3. #3
    anything to boost nr!!!!

    I like it


    Anyone know what the nr of a pet is anyways? It feels like 0 to be honest. so then keeping that in mind, an extra 550 at lvl 200 still isn't enough. I'd like to see the pet with around 1000 nr (which isn't as insane as it sounds) at level 200. having the nano improve with our own level is a good idea too bro, it keeps folks levelling and gives them goals.

    BUMP FOR THIS!
    Nanomage: The OTHER other white meat

  4. #4
    Hey Hexar,

    The element of this proposal that I really like is the chance of reflecting the calm/root/snare back to the caster. By this you mean that when reflected, the caster would end up being rooted/calmed instead, right?

    This is a wonderful idea. It would make the crowd controllers think twice about whether it was a good idea to just throw off another 0% ChanceOfBreak AoE snare/root. At present, it's all to easy to continually cast the durned things and most of those caught take longer releasing it than it takes for the caster to fire off a couple of nukes before casting it again. They'd need to pick their targets a little more and be more discriminating about it. So the pets wouldn't be so instantly disabled without any possible backlash.

    Added to this, it wouldn't be too awesomely overpowering - as all of the crowd control professions have nanos to release themselves from their own crowd control measures.

    To be honest, I think it would be great to have a line of buffs that ran from a 3% chance at the low end, to maybe a 10-15% chance at the high end. You could almost leave the NR buff aside...

    I'd agree with Sallust that it needs to be a line with varying amounts rather than a single nano with a variable calculation. On the whole variable calculation is liable to being very buggy and it leaves sections of the community out of the equation.

    Perhaps a line of buffs with the reflect being the core part and a little added NR on top?

    Just initial thoughts.

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  5. #5
    As I said I'm not very good with numbers, I haven't a clue as to what kind of NR is on the original pets so this is just an outline. The people with all the numbers would have to come up with the correct results beneficial to our pets in its current setting. This might be the first one? How about haveing 3-4 verisions at different lvls with higher stats?

    Now about why the -50% of pet's health, well I just threw that in there cause everybody seems occupied giving some sort of downside to the new stuff, so this one is a downside but not a serious one, LOL

    Now I have to disagree with X on the 3% reflect being any higher on higher ql versions of this sort of nano. If I'm not mistaken there is a constant 3% chance of fumbeling a nuke, now taking into consideration of how often I fumble with nukes on my NT a 10-15% chance would almost certainly be overpowering.
    I want to be a campaign!!
    Tarilliux MP fun,fun,fun (should have been a crat with a name like this )
    Hexar ::::Nanotech::::
    Imothar Engie (For once on the recieving end of MP buffs)


    And a few other lowbies can't for the life of me remember their names

  6. #6
    Originally posted by THEDEACON!
    anything to boost nr!!!!

    I like it


    Anyone know what the nr of a pet is anyways? It feels like 0 to be honest. so then keeping that in mind, an extra 550 at lvl 200 still isn't enough. I'd like to see the pet with around 1000 nr (which isn't as insane as it sounds) at level 200. having the nano improve with our own level is a good idea too bro, it keeps folks levelling and gives them goals.

    BUMP FOR THIS!
    Well, as I said before the actual number of NR on our pets is unknown to me, but I hope it has some atleast. So this nano would just be added to the original NR and hopfully become somewhat more decent than the current NR.
    I want to be a campaign!!
    Tarilliux MP fun,fun,fun (should have been a crat with a name like this )
    Hexar ::::Nanotech::::
    Imothar Engie (For once on the recieving end of MP buffs)


    And a few other lowbies can't for the life of me remember their names

  7. #7
    If pets have any innate Nano Resist, nobody has been able to tell. For all intents and purposes its 0 until FC decides to make some sudden declaration after these last two years.

    I've thrown some downsides into some of my recent wishlist items because they're highly powerful specializations. Unless somebody might actually want to kill my pet, I don't see a need for it.

    The idea of a nanoformula reflect is awesome. Like X said it would be great to have something to make those area root and snare spammers think twice.
    Clan Elder of The Pilgrims

  8. #8
    Reflect % is nice idea, yes.

    Another, posibly silly one, is in this thread
    postcount++

  9. #9
    This one could do with some more input I think. Personally, I'm not too sure about the figures above but I do love the reflect idea. Without some more feedback from others though I don't think we can get much further.

    Anybody else got ideas/input?

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  10. #10
    Added two higher ql nanos.

    Made the NR a set number, as X said the progressive formulae might be a buggy thing.

    Any suggestions on names on the two higher ql nanos is welcome

    Any other input is also welcome

    Edited: Removed some info that is nolonger viable
    Last edited by Hexar/Tarilliux; May 15th, 2003 at 10:34:28.
    I want to be a campaign!!
    Tarilliux MP fun,fun,fun (should have been a crat with a name like this )
    Hexar ::::Nanotech::::
    Imothar Engie (For once on the recieving end of MP buffs)


    And a few other lowbies can't for the life of me remember their names

  11. #11
    QL75=Priest's Touch
    QL150=Deacon's Touch
    QL189=Saint's Touch

    or

    Foot touch
    Psi Touch
    Xtrem Touch

    postcount++

  12. #12
    Thanx Cozy

    Now how about the nano, do you peeps like it?

    If you do, say so

    If you don't, say what you don't like.

    Are the numbers ok, should they be different?

    Do we need, this kind of nano, or don't we?


    Input thoughts/Ideas here, anything is welcome (well almost anything)
    I want to be a campaign!!
    Tarilliux MP fun,fun,fun (should have been a crat with a name like this )
    Hexar ::::Nanotech::::
    Imothar Engie (For once on the recieving end of MP buffs)


    And a few other lowbies can't for the life of me remember their names

  13. #13
    Well I don't know how the Nano Resist is going to work on pets with their agg/def settings, someone more knowledgable about that than me (if there is anybody who knows how it works) would have to comment.

    The chance reflect is way too low in my opinion. You're looking at it happening in about 1/30 casts on some of them. It of course depends on how much they resist... but I think you could take the resist up to 5x the current amount and not be overpowered.

    NCU usage is too high. Pets have a lot of NCU but thats no reason to squander it. I wouldn't go over 20 NCU on the highest buff.
    Clan Elder of The Pilgrims

  14. #14
    I like the nano esp. the reflect idea.
    [DarkZone], member of the e)X(odus
    [Zophee], [codCrat] both Clan of Darkness members

  15. #15
    Sallust,

    FC say that the pets do have nanoresist already. It's set based on the level of the pet. It isn't particularly high and seems to be set on the same curve as for mobs. If you wanted to test this, then you should be able to persuade some very low level player to cast a hostile nano on your Caco as a test. If he ever gets countered then the pets have nano-resist. You could possibly even work out what the nanoresist was by gradually increasing the skills on that low level player with buffs up to the point where he stops getting countered entirely.

    I think that the amounts quoted in these proposals are completely overpowered and I'm absolutely certain that they would never get implemented.

    The very top pet Nano Resist buff at this time belongs to the Engineer: Coherent Polarized Screening - which gives 65% innate resist to roots/snares and +200 to nano resist. It requires 1025 in MC/TS to cast and is level required at 185. To have a QL75 nano give a nano resist buff of more than twice that just simply isn't going to happen. To have the top of the line one give 5 times the amount of buff that the top engi one gives.... well it's just not going to happen.

    The nanoresist figures in these buffs should probably look a bit like the engi ones. The top buff should be around 200 and the bottom one probably around 75 with the3 middle one at 140ish.

    I'd agree that the percentage reflect should be improved though. I still don't think that the 15% top suggestion I made is all that bad. Especially compared to the 65% Innate Resist on the top Engi buff.

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  16. #16
    LOL, I think that I and most other well experienced PvPers can assure you that they've got no nano resist. The idea that Caco resists like a level 200 mob is so ludicrous I won't even bother.

    They resist mezzes since the addition of level resists on them, thats it! I duel Traders on an almost regular basis. Some of them get a lot of resists from level 200 mobs... on Caco they get virtually none if they're using a high level calm (low level ones get resisted due to level checks).

    Doesn't the Engi Nano Resist buff add like 65% or something? If so and resists are as you say they are then you should almost never be able to use any nano on them.

    I don't know. Maybe pets just never got the nano resist fix that went in a year ago... wouldn't surprise me. Maybe the agg modifiers that push their agg/def setting above 100% also effects Nano Resist in the same way.

    Every (literally every single one) other PvPing MP I know also believes Pet Nano Resist to be 0. I might not hold a Neophyte title on Sallust but I'm no newbie to this and I can promise you that they don't resist like a level 200 mob; the comparison is ludicrous.

    I don't doubt what you say either, sounds like FC has another unimportant pet class bug they've been ignoring then. Just another complaint for my pets in PvP thread then.
    Clan Elder of The Pilgrims

  17. #17
    Sallust,

    I just went out with Cozy on test and did some basic testing to find the Nano-Resist of one of the pets. Took a little while and I will extend it for a couple more pets sometime soon so we can make an approximation at the Nano Resist per level for the pets.

    Here's the test results:

    1st Test:

    Level 25 Crat casting Winter's Bite nuke at the Lesser Rage Materialization (level 36).
    Code:
    Crat Skill Level  Cast/Countered/Fumbled
        (PM/MC)
    
          93/93          10 / 4 / 1
    
          109/109        10 / 3 / 0
    
          119/119        10 / 1 / 1
    
          129/129        10 / 4 / 1
    
          139/139        10 / 2 / 1
    
          149/149        10 / 0 / 0
    From this you can see that apart from the 119/119 skill result we see a general trend of counters/fumbles reducing as the skill rises (as you'd expect) until at 149/149 skill the nuke lands every time.

    We then took the same nuke at 139/139 skill and tried it on a player gradually raising their Nano-Resist from 20 upwards.
    Code:
    Nano-Resist  Cast/Countered/Fumbled
    {Player)
    
        20           10 / 0 / 0
    
        40           10 / 0 / 1
    
        60           10 / 0 / 1
    
        80           10 / 0 / 0
    
        110          10 / 0 / 0
    
        130          10 / 0 / 1
    
    (at this point we needed to include NR implants and buffs 
    so the progression isn't as smooth)
    
        186          10 / 0 / 0
    
        207          10 / 0 / 1
    
        227          10 / 4 / 0
    Showing that at around 215-220 Nano Resist the Crat could land the nuke as often against the player as against the level 36 pet. So the level 36 pet has an approximate Nano Resist of 215 - 220.

    It's worth noting that a level 36 Nanomage MP with fully maxed abilities has a maximum base Nano Resist of 173. So the pet's NR is considerably higher than an MP of the same level.

    The only profession with true Green Nano Resist is the NT. A level 36 Nanomage NT with maxed abilities and maxed Nano Resist gets a maxed base Nano Resist of 199. Still not as good as the level 36 MP pet at 220ish.

    Not only do MP attack pets have Nano Resist - but it is actually a fair bit better than a player's nano resist of the same level.

    X
    Last edited by XtremTech; May 13th, 2003 at 12:41:28.
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  18. #18
    Well I took some of X's advice and changed to numbers a bit.

    I lowered the numbers on NR as X says the pet's have a fair bit of NR to begin with.

    I higtened the % chance of reflecting crowdcontrol nanos back to caster.

    Now should the casting req's stay where they are or should they be higher?
    I want to be a campaign!!
    Tarilliux MP fun,fun,fun (should have been a crat with a name like this )
    Hexar ::::Nanotech::::
    Imothar Engie (For once on the recieving end of MP buffs)


    And a few other lowbies can't for the life of me remember their names

  19. #19
    Hey Hexar,

    Although some of the wishlist entries at present include casting requirements, the likelihood is that they're going to be wrong. FC has its own formulae for calculating nano requirements and with the introduction of Tower skilss budgets and future Shadowlands skillsbudgets it's hard to predict what these might be. It's probably a better idea to just include a level requirement. That way you give FC an idea of when you'd like the MP to be able to use the nano and they can apply their own requirements formula to it.

    I'm guessing that you've probably approximated the QLs to the levels that you want people to cast at. Perhaps that would be a good way to do it.

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  20. #20
    I know this is going to get shot down in flames,lol

    Again took X's advice and implemented level restrictions.

    Before you go all out and flame the use of lvl req's, take into consideration what is most likely to be implemented by FC.

    Much of the new stuff have level req's so I don't expect us to be treated different.
    I want to be a campaign!!
    Tarilliux MP fun,fun,fun (should have been a crat with a name like this )
    Hexar ::::Nanotech::::
    Imothar Engie (For once on the recieving end of MP buffs)


    And a few other lowbies can't for the life of me remember their names

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