PC Games View of Story Problem

[_____________Kirrana]

This is direct from this months PC gamer and sums up the problem of the story. Just to show its not just me thinking the storyline has a problem.

"However the story element at Anarchy Online's core is a failure, and even the writers have admitted this. The concept is one of civl war between the giant mega corporation Omni-Tek and the rebel Clans, both seeking control of the planet Rubi-ka.

Players sign up with one of the two factions (or as neutral), with the aim of taking the world and with their actions deciding the fate of it. Or not.

So far the plot has run alongside the game rather than in it, with a short cartoon series and a few isolated elements in the game.

Without this focus, and with few offical events going on, Anarch Online feels perpetually stalled, and its very hard to become immersed in. A good plot badly told. Consider waiting before declaring your allegiance."

Yes I did not post the whole thing which does talk about how good the game looks, the number of features, and the work FC have done to turn around such a bad start.

PC Gamer have been kind enough in the past to award and prise AO so they can not be seen as anti AO.

I think their view of the story is a fair open statement. It highlights the story failling something which we cannot just ignore. But FC must move on and do something with the story.

If this point has not as yet been made clear by the players then perhaps they would take notice of Pc Gamer. I just hope they do something about it soon.

[Myers]

Is this the August 2002 issue? I get the magazine in the mail and haven't see it.

Anyway, Funcom knows perfectly well that haveing an active story (and there is none right now) will make the game better. And like you I do hope they do something soon. Everything they have said (and not said) indicates they are going to restart it eventualy.

[_________Crazynotion]

There is one paragraph in this post that actually addresses the topic at hand and is worth reading. Everything else is me just going off on one about one of my pet peeves.

<rant>

Listen to games magazine reviewers? Are you mad?

Listening to games magazine reviewers is the best way to take a game of passable quality and turn it into a steaming pile of dog poo. Game reviewers represent an unusually vocal minority of gamers - they seem to be a speical breed of people endowed with the belief they can design games and bereft of the skills to do so.

So, to all game magazine reviewers out there reading this, I can safely say that I hate you all! The one-in-100 reviews that actually indicate anyone has played the game for more than 20 seconds are not enough to make up for the countless turgid reviews that slam perfectly good, playable games for not having enough coloured lighting, actually daring to be different or not fitting the 'quake/EQ/C&C' model of gaming that seems to be a prerequisite for having any reviewer like the game.

</rant>

Yes, I agree. The lack of story focus is indeed something that is noticeable to anyone who has played through a time of high-story-involvement and has seen the subsequent drop. I do believe FC are working on the problem right now, and see it as much as any of us. I also believe that they are wanting to avoid executing something 'haphazard' in order to avoid an overly fatal case of foot-in-mouth disease.

<rant>

However, expecting a dev. team to change their entire approach simply because of a comment in a game magazine is asking that dev. team to throw away all their common sense, good planning and ethics and come up with a poorly-thought-through knee-jerk reaction to an overly demanding and vocal minority of their gamers.

Once, many moons ago, game reviewers had a clue. That was in the days before any tit with a PC and two consoles and an overly insane love of Quake could become a reviewer simply by writing 'Quake is good! 10/10!!'

Getting a game with good marks in a magazine is easy. Write any old piece of crap, make sure your PR team takes the journalist out to lunch and remembers to adminre their Quake skills, and then give them a press release that says 'It's like Quake! And Blade Runner! And it's got dynamic coloured lighting requiring you to have a PC that hasn't even come out yet to play!'

Ironicially, this is also the best way to get a game approved by a sales team. And even more ironically (and as proved by Blizzard) this is also the best way to guarantee that you get no more than three and a half actual sales.

</rant>

[Demenzia]

Here we have a good way of knowing whetehr a game magazine publishes "good" reviews or not..

Take the magazine.
Look at which game companies advertise in it.
Then look at the reviews. They match the ads. And are good reviews.
Is all...

So, I never read game reviews... A few years ago you could still trust them, but now either the magazines lick game companies' boots, or they end up in trash and zoof, key under the door, bye-bye, it was nice to read you... for 3 months when you existed.

Now, errm, well... Story? Where aaaare you?
There are so many good ideas out there, but it really needs to restart again. Hopefully there are roleplayers

[_____________Kirrana]

Mech,

Reviews dont kill games poor designed games do that. The mag can only review the game as they see it. Sure theres a lot of back slapping but AO cant have it both ways.

You cant sing and shout about you wining an award from PC gamer, and then total ignore the comments made about them at a later day.

I feel you are being really unfair on reviewers, after all how are you suppose to find about what a game is like. Trusting the detials on the box is a waste of time, the screen shots really match the game, most of the features they promise dont work, and the recommanded system requires are pointless.

Also mech can you really tell me the review post by PC Gamer about AO was in anyway unfair or incorrect ????



Also this from you mech

However, expecting a dev. team to change their entire approach simply because of a comment in a game magazine is asking that dev. team to throw away all their common sense, good planning and ethics and come up with a poorly-thought-through knee-jerk reaction to an overly demanding and vocal minority of their gamers.

It makes me want to shout out newbie !!!! Where have you been in the past year, FCs' patches have been one knee jerk reaction after another. You cant tell me they planned to still be fixing the proffessions a year after release.

If you look back over the years most of the fixes have been a reaction to the customers you only have to look at the hacking accident in which 30 people quit over before FC changed their mind.

I have no doubt that FC reation to the people moaning about the proffessions has been the key reason we have had some many fixes on them but hardly any story.

[_________Crazynotion]

Woah...

Let me go through these as slowly and carefully as I can...

First off, my issue with game reviewers is my pet peeve. I don't like 'em, and I'm happy to shout about it. Which is why I enclosed such things within a <rant></rant>

You are entirely correct on the following points:

1) ...how are you suppose to find about what a game is like. Trusting the detials on the box is a waste of time, the screen shots really match the game, most of the features they promise dont work, and the recommanded system requires are pointless.

You need reviwers. That doesn't change the fact that the general quality of game reviews has slipped.

2) can you really tell me the review post by PC Gamer about AO was in anyway unfair or incorrect

No I can't. However I can and will state that no matter what a reviewer says, a game developer cannot afford to do anything in a knee-jerk manner. This holds doubly true in a MMORPG

And, as stated a number of times in other posts, I have been playing AO since April. That means I've been playing for a grand total of 4 months. Compared to people who have been playing AO for over a year, I'd say that makes me new.

Newbie? Maybe to AO. Certainly not to online games. And certainly not to games development.

I fully expect that FC will be fixing professions right up until the game eventually stops. I fully expect that FC will be patching up until the game eventually stops. That's something they have to resign themselves to, since to not do so would be much worse! There will always be people who find ways of using a profession or skill or nano or something 'not as intended' - there will always be issues balancing 'perfectly' all the professions. It is an impossible task, which is why - after 3(?) years - EQ is *still* having patches to fix profession issues. To expect AO to do it in half that time is laughable.

And as for knee-jerk patches- if a patch is urgently required to fix something very very broken, then knee-jerk is sometimes required. But it isn't either essential or desired. The fact that there is no story isn't 'very very broken' because it isn't going to result in huge numbers of unbalanced characters or huge numbers of characters being deleted.

AO is ultimately customer-focused. It has to be. So of course they are going to respond to customer demands. If 30 people leave over an identifiable issue, then they're going to address it. That falls into the 'very very broken' category.

As for how this affects the story? Tarryk has already stated as much in the original thread you started on this: Funcom are working on the story, and Funcom would be stupid to release a half-baked, flawed story *again*. They know this, so they want to be sure they've got it right before releasing it to an impatient audience.

I do not for a second doubt that FC agree entirely with the words of the article: that the current problem with AO is it feels stagnant because of the complete lack of story progress. And I'm also pretty well convinced that they are working hard to fix this, since they are a business that has survived for more than 6 months and are thus capable of self-criticism.

But no amount of complaining is going to make them release the story any faster. The fact that they haven't told us players exactly what is planned is not evidence that they aren't doing anything. The fact that the script for AO isn't posted on some dodgy website somewhere doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

So:

If you like the game, play the game. If you don't like the game, don't play the game. They aren't making you pay for your subscription. They aren't making you log in and play. If you really really cannot stand the fact that there is no story at the moment, then leave. Vote with your credit card.

Otherwise, have a bit of faith in the fact that AO is Funcom's primariy source of business, and as such it makes sense that they will be doing everything in their power to make the game as good as they can with the tools and power at their disposal.

[crazyhorse]

Problem is that the story was not "half-baked" or broken... Sure there were lag/server issues when the story was up and running but it was a hell of a lot better then zero story and zero explanation...

FC HAS been attempting "knee-jerk" solutions to the problems...The endless "nerfs" are proof of that... (from nerfing FAs all the way to "nerfing" traders...

I am afraid that now that the story is dead soon the game will be as well...FC has shown us no reason to have "faith" in them... What was once a great game (nov-jan) is now a stripped down version of what we were all promised....

[Lilyflie]

i am starting to believe, as I read through these forums, and listeing to the same people in game, don't really care anymore anout the story, and don't actually take anyones opinions seriously. I am starting to believe that thry just want to take out thier fustration, on their lack of ability to find something fun in the game, and unfortunatly, if you post a article that is possitive in nature, they can't wait to tear it apart cause misery loves company.

If you are not having fun in this game leave, if you do not have any faith in a storyline at all..leave,if your entire focus is to rant and yell and take as many with you as you can, just leave. Right now, if I were to quit the game, it wouldn't be because of funcom or missing story, it would be because my good time is being spoiled by your negativity for the whole game.

Sure i could not read the forums, but once in a blue moon, someone like mechanita makes a very well thought out, well researched point (she is in the game developing business, i'm willing to bet she has a beter insight into this than anyone, regardless of how little she has played for..and i have been around longer than she has) and i still like to see them. but it is not just in the forums. I could be walking through the streets of Ent and i see people shouting insults and slags, as though it is thier whole purpose to ruin the game for anyone who still may be having fun.

maybe you are sick of it, maybe you have had enough..maybe you concider it unfair to you, then maybe it's time to quit. Last i checked there were more than 30 new games coming out this month (and next). find one you enjoy, and let the rest of us continue enjoying this game, because many of us are

(in preparation for the 'newb' insert in the next flame I will inform that i have been with the game some time, main character is in the past lvl 130 grind, all other alt characters are in the past 60 grind, and i am not a power lvl'er, level does not dictate knowlege other than what that class can do after that lvl. In no way does lvl dictate knowlege of the game, only time)

[crazyhorse]

I agree... If you dont like the game leave and leave it to the ones who do like it...

However, the thing is that I/we dont dislike the game, I just have seen it at such a better state then it is now and I desire for it to be in that state again...

Im not trying to convince anyone to leave, but this is my/our place to show our displeasure...(Im starting to wonder if anyone from FC actually reads this forum, when was the last time there was an official FC post here?)

There are many things about the game I dislike but I am willing to deal/live with them because there are also many things I enjoy...

I have never intentionaly tried to ruin anyone elses gaming experiance... And I know Kirrana hasnt...(In fact I would guess quite the contrary)... This however, (the story) is quite troubling, to me anyhow, if you take all other things that have happened with FC over the last few months it adds up....

No n00b flames here ... But I am sure everyone who was here when the story was running, (donno if you were or not), must agree that the game was much more interesting when it was happening...

Some communication from FC regarding this issue (the story) would go a long way...

oh, (I agree, level has nothing to do with knowledge of game... heck I have over 100 DAYS /played and yet I only lvl 145 on my "main" char...just on that char it works out to around 7 hours a day since release )

[_____________Kirrana]

As crazy said these posts i make are not trying to kill the game off in fact I hope it wakes FC up to the problem.

I have been in AO a long time, I have worked on the RP side with a number of people, I spend hours in the ric chat room talking to people. I have tried a number of different ways to try and make my point clear.

I dont want FC or AO to fail, but I have seen many of the people I worked with in AO leave. I only have to log in to note the numbers of people has dropped off.

But the worst thing has to be the game play. Where as before the clubs where packed with people you can barely see anyone in them.

You used to have people arranging events nearly everyday, now we have a few people still doing events but it seems the same old tired ones. Its as if the heart of AO is missing.

Most people that I know who left was in part due to the lack of a story, highlevel people with nothing to do. Roleplayers stuck with an changing world, a place where they actions are meaning less.

I once ran a news site, I interviewed people to get their thoughts on the lastest news. But without a story its points, not just for the news but even trying to to create something.

So I am left to post here, once Ragnar did respond to my post about the story. It was a great thread load's or ideas, I though he understand the problem.

Perhaps I missunderstood him, becuase I thought this would spur him on to get the story up and running. But it has not am I so wrong in wanting FC to explain the story and clear up the matter once and for all.

Tell us is the story on hold,

Is the old format or Ross, Radiman, dust people gone ?

Will you be still running the web site with AO news ?

Will we see events in game

Will people general players have roles in the story ?

How are you going to tell the story.

Why do we have summer breaks in the story when most people are at home playing the game ?

extra I could go on

[_________Crazynotion]

Of all of those myriad questions there is one that I can answer because it is true in pretty much any service-type industry:

FC don't make regular official posts on forums like this unless they are 100% sure that what they say is the truth.

What would be worse:
1) No comment from FC except very occasionally,

or

2) Lots of promises from FC every week, and only 1 in 10 of those promises delivered.

Point #2 sounds a lot like what things were like not too long ago. Their 'envisioned' section had people's hopes up and as the things there were not forthcoming people got wary and eventually pissed off. So I honestly believe they made a good move in deleting it, and made a bad move in putting it there in the first place.

What would make a difference, however, is a few more 'feelgood' messages. The best thing FC could do on these forums is post messages on the boards basically saying 'yes, we've got (x) number of people working on the story right now. We can't tell you how long it will be, but rest assured we're on the case.'

As to whether the story was half-baked: I'm willing to bet it was. It may not have seemed so at the time to the players, but there is every real chance that they hadn't properly thought through some of the implications or future direction of the story arc, and hence got nervous about the whole thing. I know that as a PnP DM I've had exactly that happen more than once - and it kills campaigns dead even when the players don't understand whats wrong.

[Nyadach]

PC Gamer gave AO the award for the best MMORPG at the early part of this year? why...because at the time AO had the movies, had things happening, had new dungeons poping up all over. Things were looking bright, things were happinging. The bugs were being fixed...all looks sweet and rosey.

And then? urmmm, well ok give them some credit for fixing Fixers and Adventurers. Theres the Arks story teams doing there thing, which is great but non of its really world changing or a large scale. But much else? sorry not seen it. We've had company reshuffles, we've had lots of promises. Its sad we only seem to hear from Cz, Cos and Dai, who also seem to suffer the same lack of information we do. Promises are fine. Its action we want

FC made a big deal over getting that award. Lets see if it truely meant so much to them now they lost it!
Less than 6 months too rescue the world now, the question is can you do it?

[______________Scorus]

Originally posted by Crazyhorse
I agree... If you dont like the game leave and leave it to the ones who do like it...with them because there are also many things I enjoy...

Thank for your insight! In the last year dozens of people have told me the same thing, in one form or another: 'love it or leave it.' In that year I have worked closely with various devs and Funcom employees to get them to change things that needed to be changed and I have participated in making this a better game by making my complaints heard.

And the people that told me to leave if I didn't like the game? Most of them have since left the game...

Scorus

[______________Scorus]

Originally posted by Nyadach
PC Gamer gave AO the award for the best MMORPG at the early part of this year? why...because at the time AO had the movies, had things happening, had new dungeons poping up all over

For the most part, I'm afraid you are wrong. The movies had been publically killed off LONG before that award was given and the 'golden age' of the storyline was quite obviously dead. New dungeons WERE popping up. But the dungeons and quests have just been what Funcom has given us since they found they couldn't provide an interactive storyline. It wasn't until about three months into the game that they finally gave it and told players that had been screaming about the lack of content that they would now get the EQ stuff they had been begging for.

Scorus

[_____________Kirrana]

Scorus sorry but Nyadach is quite correct.


PC gamer accounced the award in the Feb issue of its mag, we all know the mags come out weeks before the month starts, but in fact are written the month before.

In all accounts the review of AO by PC gamer was done in jan just after the story line videos had stopped but it was clear the award was based on them. Reading the review points to the complex storyline as its key to beating DOAC.

With AO's failing story the review for AO has dropped below that of DOAC and EQ with AO taking only 3 rd place.

Its interesting to note that both EQII and ACII have listed as there features a complex, interacting storyline. Ok EQ and AC already had one, but not much was made of it but if AO are going to compete they need to get the story back on track soon

[_________Crazynotion]

I cannot for the life of me remember who said it, so my apologies to you, sir.

However, one of the statements made at GDC 2001 was:

Conflict is necessary to drive MMORPGs

And herein I believe lies AO's biggest strength. EQ has a story, and AC has a story but in both cases neither really involve a conflict to the degree that AO does. AO's conflict has one big advantage - players on both sides with a reason for fighting.

And, more importantly, a reason that players can get their hearts around. Fighting for or against the 'great demon army of Kazoom who want to rule the world' isn't as personal for players from the 21st Century (that'd be us) as fighting for or against The Man - something we are more than familiar with in the real world.

This is one of the biggest strengths of AO, and is one of the things that allows AO to have a story that generates so much interest.

And yes, PC Gamer are right (as much as it galls me to agree with game reviewers) - the story is not there. The recent return of Radiman is a hopeful sign, andd if followed up with more story then we'll be happy again.

So I take my hat off to FC for coming up with a setting that can drive such a compelling story. But I also remind FC that there are currently 70+ MMORPGs in development around the world, and you can bet your bottom dollar that more than two of them will also have a compelling, conflict-driven story that is active and exciting and easy to get your heart behind.

One of the main stumbling blocks with these MMORPG things is mainenance - you have to maintain them to the level that you start or higher, or you have to accept that your player base is going to leave.

70 MMORPGs.... and I swear there isn't enough players out there in the world to fund all of them.

[______________Scorus]

Hmmm, my bad, I can tell my memory is going. Sorry about that, hate providing bad information...

Scorus