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Thread: Official Enforcer request to Dev Team - (Blueprint)

  1. #1

    Lightbulb Official Enforcer request to Dev Team - (Blueprint)

    OK guys with your support and 'bumping' I would like to post in Envisionned forum a kind of official request from the Enforcer community for some improvements (I won't say fixing ).

    I just read again the "Top 10" thread and it seems that request are mainly turning around :

    Improving the AC system
    So that it's more meaningful for players. More like a general request here but still, very important.

    Improving the Dodge / Evade skills
    Those are ignored a lot since they are close to no use in PvP or vs. red mobs. Tweaking is required here.

    Having more viable weapon choices
    New type of dmge, better speed / dmge ratio for existing and unused weapons, softening some requisite needed to multi-wield.

    Improving the speed cap rules
    Well at least for melee weapons.

    Taking an official stance with Enf and edged weapons
    If 1HE / 2HE are ok with our profession let's have adequate buffs.

    Changing Tank Armor
    Everyone and his sister he's wearing Decus coats these days. We are very happy with Tank but the nano drain is really just too difficult to manage and because of Decus, Tank is just obsolete. If Tank has to mean nano sink, then at least let's have it balanced with far better AC or dmge increase, or just something that would be ok to trade for the nano sink.

    Softening damage caping for Enf
    Let us have some ways to improve the min dmge we can make on Mobs.

    So en résumé : Enhance a bit our strenght in melee, tweak the AC mechanism for everyone, break the uniformity of our profession.

    I would like to have more accurate ideas and your feelings about all this and even new ideas (Enforcer-only armoring tradeskills for example ?).
    Last edited by Unexpected; Jan 3rd, 2002 at 16:36:46.
    "Donner à des millions une connaissance de l'anglais, c'est les rendre esclaves". (Hind Swarâj, ch. 18)

  2. #2
    I like all of those things. so BUMP
    Christopher "CRITS" J00r

    Sin-tek inc. (Recruiting VP)

  3. #3

    w00t

    BUMP !!!


    what the hell does it mean anyway
    Snakee Atrox, Soldier

  4. #4

  5. #5
    *BUMP*

    Particularly keen to see the min damage problem addressed. This is plainly a bug and is preventing a whole heap of fast/low damage weapons being viable.

    Oh and here is a personal one from me.... please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please make beams turn up more frequently. At lvl 78 (and a dedicated mission terminal camper) I've never been offered or found a single beam.

  6. #6

    Talking

    BUMP
    O b i t u s Atrox Clan Enforcer My trade skill? Smackin' stuff till it cries! Obi's Rig
    Unit Memer of S t o r m


    Never Forget

  7. #7

    Talking BUMP

    Id like to add one too. Fix Mult Melee. I always show my that one of my arms completely waits for the other to attack, recharge, then the other is allowed to start its recharge/attack cycle. Whats the point of Mult Melee then? It seems I could achieve effectively the same results without dual wielding.

    Also i have noticed that mobs have the initiative when i attack them, and they have a damage shield on, I always get hit with it 1-2 times, sometimes 3 or 4, before i do any damage. This could just be the order in which it is displayed to the screen, i. e. just visual, but i would always register damage first when i attack first.

  8. #8
    Just on this part there's a very bad synchro between what ocuurs on the screen and the damage recorded in the chat box.

    Any feedback on that point ?

    Plus :

    Any proposition for enhancing our min dmges without uberizing ourselves ? Same question for AC, what kind of game mechanism would you think more fair ?

    Keep in mind that this is somehow contradictory, we would like to see an improvement in the way AC works and take better advantage of having high AC even if mob min dmges are way high AND we would like to have better min dmges on mobs for ourselves.
    "Donner à des millions une connaissance de l'anglais, c'est les rendre esclaves". (Hind Swarâj, ch. 18)

  9. #9

    BUMP

    Just making sure this stays at the top. number 1 on my list is TANK armor then of course having 1h and 2H edge buffs. Oh BTW Thank you Obitus for the little help over in the soldier section you rock man. I had 2 120+ soldiers post there too to get my name outta the mud with soldiers
    Christopher "CRITS" J00r

    Sin-tek inc. (Recruiting VP)

  10. #10

    *BUMP BUMP*

    *BUMP*


    Princess"Lashleigh" Tabledancer - Unit member of Nirvana

    ___________

    Yes, I had my own fan club. Behold the power of spam....

    ___________

  11. #11
    Min damage doesnt really need to be changed.

    Only real thing there is the AC system needs to be reworked into a percentage, and 99% of your other problems (ala variety etc) will be solved.

    Wouldnt mind tank becoming a viable alternative again also.

    Bear in mind that our profession is actually the most diverse in the game atm.

    Scary thought huh.

  12. #12

    Bump

    Improving the Dodge / Evade skills
    Those are ignored a lot since they are close to no use in PvP or vs. red mobs. Tweaking is required here.
    Although I disagree with this one, if you have low evades you're going to get critted like mad. Perhaps there isn't an exact explaination of this out there, and that's why people are angry. I'd say it's going to be really hard to make them worth anything agst red mobs, unless you 3-cluster implant it. I mean, the mob IS well above your level, right? Even if you have evades maxed, it stands to reason you're going to get critted. Sucky, but it makes sense.
    Katelin Arinia Rhees
    Level 220 Enforcer
    Former Enforcer Professional
    Former President of the late Midnight Reveries
    Account Created: 2001-10-08; Account Expired: 2005-02-19

  13. #13
    This is really my own view, but I fell the investing IPs in Evades / Dodges / Nano resist should give you more bang for your IPs.

    Now I agree that maybe a more visual 'DODGED' or 'CRIT EVADED' message could make you feel better with your defensive skills when they are used.

    That's the problem with passive skills of course.

    As for fighting reds, it's where these skills should be very obvious : maybe you can evade 3 hits in a row because you are so swift, but then when the 4th smack will land it splits your head in two.
    Last edited by Unexpected; Jan 3rd, 2002 at 18:03:25.
    "Donner à des millions une connaissance de l'anglais, c'est les rendre esclaves". (Hind Swarâj, ch. 18)

  14. #14

    Halleluja

    Ok, I really have to agree on many of these points.

    I still wear tank. I like the look. I'm not the coat-wearing type. It would be nice if every time I team, someone didn't ask why I was still in the stone age with tank. It would be nice if there were some balancing factor. But truth be told, I'm gonna keep wearing tank, at least for now.

    As for edge weapons, I use 1he and I love em.
    I thought that Enforcers would be the best at all melee weapons. The skills cost the same, and effectively the weapons are very close in damage output at similar levels. The problem we edge people face is that we can't equip such high QL blades since we don't get the same buffs that blunt people get.
    It really saddened me to hear several enforcers who use blades state that if this IP reset happens, they are going over to 2hb without second thoughts.

    I know some soldiers who would say the same about Assault Rifles, but they actually get buffs for pistol, rifle, and several others before the AR buff is available. In the case of soldiers, the AR is just dominant right now. In our case there are at least a few decent weapons to pick from. Why not let us pick?

    -Sol Gaviglia

  15. #15

    Re: Official Enforcer request to Dev Team - (Blueprint)

    Originally posted by Gummizluv
    OK guys with your support and 'bumping' I would like to post in Envisionned forum a kind of official request from the Enforcer community for some improvements (I won't say fixing ).

    I just read again the "Top 10" thread and it seems that request are mainly turning around :

    Improving the AC system
    So that it's more meaningful for players. More like a general request here but still, very important.

    Improving the Dodge / Evade skills
    Those are ignored a lot since they are close to no use in PvP or vs. red mobs. Tweaking is required here.

    Having more viable weapon choices
    New type of dmge, better speed / dmge ratio for existing and unused weapons, softening some requisite needed to multi-wield.

    Improving the speed cap rules
    Well at least for melee weapons.

    Taking an official stance with Enf and edged weapons
    If 1HE / 2HE are ok with our profession let's have adequate buffs.

    Changing Tank Armor
    Everyone and his sister he's wearing Decus coats these days. We are very happy with Tank but the nano drain is really just too difficult to manage and because of Decus, Tank is just obsolete. If Tank has to mean nano sink, then at least let's have it balanced with far better AC or dmge increase, or just something that would be ok to trade for the nano sink.

    Softening damage caping for Enf
    Let us have some ways to improve the min dmge we can make on Mobs.

    So en résumé : Enhance a bit our strenght in melee, tweak the AC mechanism for everyone, break the uniformity of our profession.

    I would like to have more accurate ideas and your feelings about all this and even new ideas (Enforcer-only armoring tradeskills for example ?).
    oh no here comes Yazule!

    AC .. agreed 100%

    Dodge evades seem to work for me, I see a big difference in pvm and in pvp. I ignored them for a long long long long long time as they were broken, then I kicked them up a TON in 2 levels and saw a massive difference, so I dont agree.


    Viable weapons will happen if they fix ac. It should be a % of damage not a #. If new ac rules dont help then I agree more weapons selections are needed.

    Speed caps are fine. When you hit your cap your extra init slows down your opponent (or so I hear). Plus when/if the ac rules change it would overpower the super fast swingers. I heard a story of a player with bugged init's (over 1200) and the mobs didnt even swing back!

    2he is a toughy. That is all the designers vision and they thought we should use blunt. I would not have an issue with 2he buffs myself, but what class gets more than one special weapon to buff up? well trader does, but the rest get either 1 weapon buff or none, so seems to be fine as it is. With challenger and a trader it dont make that much of a difference anyway. Seems to me that it is just the way they "want" it. Not much you can do. Are people going to ask for a melee energy buff once they have a 2he? *shrugs* I will let you guys argue about that one, Dont really care.

    Tank armor should be identical to decus imho for stats and negatives. they are identical at Q200 for stats, so why should we suffer wearing tank. I have worn coats since 12.6 but I am jealous of every tank wearer I see. It just looks cooler.

    With the ac changes we will do more damage, no need to tweek capping rules, if done right then capping wont be an issue unless your really really not supposed to be fighting that mob.

    As for your last comment I am a hammer enforcer so I see no need to tweek up our melee at all. Enforcers are the most balanced class in the game imho and I think that we dont need to ask for beefs only fix the poor game mechanics that everyone will be effected by.

    everything funcom "fixes" gets broken so be careful what you wish for.

    If they fix ac all of what I perceive to be "problems" with enforcers will be fixed except for the fact that I still have to wear a dress.
    Last edited by Yazule; Jan 3rd, 2002 at 18:23:29.
    I am Dnastyone Official Broom pusher for The Professionals
    Painmage my newest funnest guy
    PHEAR ME RK1 Yazule IMMMM BACK

    I would have to say that this is an typicall example of how an flame should not look like. You need to think things through and calm down before you try to write an flame... Im sorry but I would rate this flame with an 1. Aggression is to high, grammar and cursing isnt to well planned... Maybe he has an point somewhere in there but I dont even want to find it. - Centurion3

    ROFLOL

  16. #16
    Dodge evades seem to work for me, I see a big difference in pvm and in pvp. I ignored them for a long long long long long time as they were broken, then I kicked them up a TON in 2 levels and saw a massive difference, so I dont agree.
    if you have low evades you're going to get critted like mad. Perhaps there isn't an exact explaination of this out there, and that's why people are angry.
    I think a lot of people will agree that dodge/evade/duck are useful. But most professions have some or all of the defensive skills blue, it's good to give some details of how the attack/defense system work, including the effect of the agg/def slide bar. It's not necessary to give us exact details such that we can do calculus on it. At least, enough to help us make an approximate choice of our own.
    Last edited by Aggelikki; Jan 4th, 2002 at 01:32:45.

  17. #17
    Improving the AC system
    Sure as hell! We are meant to be tanks, and I see alot of people with the same Ac as me but a different class..yesh they dont have as much hp but...We are after meant to be, tanks? no?


    Improving the Dodge / Evade skills
    Yeah, we are a fighting class..Im a Solitus and blue for my and evade is light blue but still to much IP cost

    Having more viable weapon choices
    Sure as hell x30000!
    I have a hammer....ql 200 I cannot find a better dmging weapon...not just that read the next one.

    Improving the speed cap rules
    7 second Recharge!!! And I see lower Ql Rifles and guns do more dmg in 2.5



    Taking an official stance with Enf and edged weapons
    Yeah...A bit to late I was a Rider weilder but now Im a Hammer user becuase of this,



    Changing Tank Armor
    Tank armour is our fried, our only fried, now make it for use tank classes only or just simply remove all the damn costs...
    Youknow a Ql 104 Hanshi is better than a ql 156 Tank?


    Softening damage caping for Enf
    Yeah i find that toooo... Watching some SOldier dmgs i see they are constant...maybe im wrong but mines goes from 13 to 2500.




    My peice:

    Id like to see a Defensive Shield or..somthing better.
    Even a better Beserk line..

    Smeting to make us go phsyco.

    Im dreaming of a Metalic Layer...Silver Skin...hmm


    But anything is better so..

    Its about time us enfs got "something" if anything.

  18. #18
    Oh make Dimach as fast as AS.
    cuz they do basically the same dmg :/
    Im being
    too cheeky aint I?

  19. #19
    The protection-damage system in Asheron's Call is probably the best I have seen (in my limited experience). Not only could you anticipate and calculate what your AC (AL) would do, but you knew which MOBs hit which parts of your body for which specific type of damage. You knew, for example, that a certain type of NPC would hit you with pierce and acid, and never touch your feet or your hands. You could prep perfectly for that ... of course, if you ran into something that could kill you by bludgeoning your toes, you were in trouble. You could also pretty easily anticipate what your melee defense (evades etc etc) would do for you.

    I've played AO to some pretty significant levels in a couple of professions and the AC-damage relationship still confounds me. I'm not sure it needs to go to the extent of Asheron's Call in terms of body part specific protection and damage, but it would benefit from a protection-damage relationship that was more consistent and could be anticipated. It's the inconsistency that drives me nuts. One day a Vet MP will knock you silly, the next he will barely touch you.

  20. #20

    Re: Re: Official Enforcer request to Dev Team - (Blueprint)

    Originally posted by Yazule
    AC .. agreed 100%
    Guess you would.

    Dodge evades seem to work for me, I see a big difference in pvm and in pvp. I ignored them for a long long long long long time as they were broken, then I kicked them up a TON in 2 levels and saw a massive difference, so I dont agree.
    Well that's the point. I don't know how you define "a ton" but none is really planning to invest IPs in these skills :

    a) They are very misunderstood and are effective : so put some floating text each time they are triggered (like you take 600 pts of dmges and you have a "CRIT EVADED" floating text - you know it's time to run ).

    b) They have little influence on the dmge you take and maybe 200 pts in Evade ClsC will give -1% Crit, then it's not enough. Because you will just dump IPs in them when you reach lvl 120 and you are bored with all the IPs you have sleeping.

    For our interest it would be nice to have to make decisions at low levels : will I be a dodger melee guy, not hitting a lot but very difficult to catch, or will I be a thick brute not even noticing I'm already dead.

    Now we all agree that many of these issues are not really specific to the enforcer profession. It's just that we are a lot in melee, more than the pet professions, docs, NT, whatever. Still they would all have choices to make in this perspective.

    Viable weapons will happen if they fix ac. It should be a % of damage not a #. If new ac rules dont help then I agree more weapons selections are needed.
    Of course. But even with a new way to handle AC we realize that 80% of the weapons have very very bad stats in term of :

    a) Dmge / delay ratio
    b) IP requirements

    If you add the fact that today you can only rely on weapons that do massive dmges in one strike so as not to be too much annoyed by AC, we end up with a selection of 3 viable weapons for the Enforcer profession.

    And the sad part is that we have to be quite glad with them, since many other professions just have one weapon choice if any.

    Now even if AC is fixed we will maybe have 5 weapons OK to use. Better but still not enough : check EQ, DAoC, AC and UO and you'll see that you can really have many many ways to go with your weapons, even if just a few weapons are really optimal.

    Speed caps are fine. When you hit your cap your extra init slows down your opponent (or so I hear). Plus when/if the ac rules change it would overpower the super fast swingers. I heard a story of a player with bugged init's (over 1200) and the mobs didnt even swing back!
    See I know you and will trust what you report here, but it's really about assumptions. So even if no fix is required, at least some official explanations will be welcome. Just as what was done with Range.

    2he is a toughy. That is all the designers vision and they thought we should use blunt. I would not have an issue with 2he buffs myself, but what class gets more than one special weapon to buff up? well trader does, but the rest get either 1 weapon buff or none, so seems to be fine as it is. With challenger and a trader it dont make that much of a difference anyway. Seems to me that it is just the way they "want" it. Not much you can do. Are people going to ask for a melee energy buff once they have a 2he? *shrugs* I will let you guys argue about that one, Dont really care.
    OK I just feel the same. Exactly. I always understood that Enforcers had to go blunt from the game description, the starting weapon and nano we all had. But it's tru that there's really no other profession for ppl than want to use HE. So, well, it's an open matter here, no big deal for me.

    Tank armor should be identical to decus imho for stats and negatives. they are identical at Q200 for stats, so why should we suffer wearing tank. I have worn coats since 12.6 but I am jealous of every tank wearer I see. It just looks cooler.
    Tank should be our profession's distinctive armor, shared with Soldiers. I would suffer from the nano sink it has but I really could cope with it if it would bring us massive AC advantage (when AC will be more meaningful). Right now ppl use it because they like the look and can stand not really using their nanos because they only play in groups with constant healing / buffing support.

    With the ac changes we will do more damage, no need to tweek capping rules, if done right then capping wont be an issue unless your really really not supposed to be fighting that mob.
    Agreed, still it's not granted that an AC tweak will happen. So it's necessary to point this problem too as something that has to be taken into account on its own.


    All this discussion is important. We are balanced because we are a very basic profession with obvious strenghts are obvious weaknesses. Still a lot of game mechanism impairs what could just be a perfect balance for this profession and as I raise in levels I understand that some little things are growing in small annoyances and that they will become a problem soon enough.

    I'm also very concerned by the fact that we all have to wield an Hammer with a Decus Coat or just be way behind the curve.

    Boredom is a killer.
    "Donner à des millions une connaissance de l'anglais, c'est les rendre esclaves". (Hind Swarâj, ch. 18)

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