beams and init

[_______________Snarf]

Hey enfs:

Does anyone know what init I need to cap the speed bonus I get when using a beam? Dont want to over-invest in melee init.

Thanks!

[______________Yazule]

hrm.. this is a tough question. From what I have observed when I have my +71 buff and rage (+180) I think and a FOB (flurry of blows, low quality) running in a mission my bar FLYS up and down and when I look as my speeds I have about 780 init. (with low light targeting scope on)

The theory I have heard is every 600 in melee init is -1 second off attack and -2 seconds off recharge. (send a tell to shtyles on RK2 if you want to know any more than "I heard").

so with a .5 hard cap means that at 1200 melee init you would have -2/-4

Beam is 3.5/2.5 so that would give you 1.5/.5 If you really really wanted to be as fast as you can then at 1800 (-3/-6) you would be at .5/.5 assuming what I heard was true.

Another thing that I have heard about is if you have INSANELY high melee init that the "extra" (in our example 2.5-6 = -3.5 or 3.5 "extra seconds") is aplied negatively to your opponent effectively slowing them down.

I think I read about that phenomina on the punching bag, but I am not sure. Someone got bugged init and the mobs didnt even swing back kind of thing.

Now mind you there are lots of "i have heard" assumptions in my reply, but to the best of my knowledge (im and atrox, keep that in mind) the higher the better forever.

umm wish I could give you more concrete info on this snarf, but this is the data I have gotten from peeps.

*edit*there is related agro information reguarding beams vs hammers and init's HERE

[Downsizr]

I am able to buff quite often to 800 melee init while wielding a 145 beam and the effects are awesome. I plan to develop melee init as high to 1000 gradually. I'll try to let you know how my testing are going.

It seems that I crit a lot more too. And it's not just better odds for a crit with more hits. I've posted here a screen capture that shows that I can crit 5 times out of 6 - with my previous Q124 Beam and without SG or any buff like that, just pure speed.

[___________Grosboeuf]

sometimes, my flurry of blow bugs my melee init to high values.Then I do crit VERY often and without SG.

one question: what is the low targetting scope and where to find it?

[Kinkstaah]

Those calculations are *Way way way* wrong.

Its definately not that. I'll use my rider exec as an example. (which is 2.5/2.5 - Little quicker)

At 730 init - It's not *quite* at cap speed. At around 800 - It hits caps. (Which is 1/1 btw)

For 3.5, you'd need to knock another *second* from the speed, and considering 800 init is enough to take off 1.5, you'd be looking at 533 more.

So roughly 1333 init to get a beam hitting at cap speeds.

[Kinkstaah]

Flurry does more than add to your init. it gives a positive "Bonus" to your AGG/DEF - Which is the same as to you moving the slider toward max agg.

So effectively your agg can be off the scale, which is why you hit more. I have teamed with bruise who somehow got his init to some stupid value like 3000 - he crit everytime, but everytime he was hit, it was a crit too. (even on full def - the mobs would crit *him* every time, noone else - but hard to get agro from a QL200 beam hitting 1/1, critting 100% of the time :P)

So logic would assume that playing on Max agg does influence your crits

[Downsizr]

Originally posted by MiKEBoND
Those calculations are *Way way way* wrong.

(...)

So roughly 1333 init to get a beam hitting at cap speeds.

Well it's consistent with what I said. From my experience it seems that 1000 in melee init will be near the cap with beam. You can still push the slider upward and maybe even after 1300+, while you'll be playing in full DEF.

[Kinkstaah]

No - Thats on full AGG (at least my numbers are)

[______________Yazule]

Originally posted by MiKEBoND
Those calculations are *Way way way* wrong.

Its definately not that. I'll use my rider exec as an example. (which is 2.5/2.5 - Little quicker)

At 730 init - It's not *quite* at cap speed. At around 800 - It hits caps. (Which is 1/1 btw)

For 3.5, you'd need to knock another *second* from the speed, and considering 800 init is enough to take off 1.5, you'd be looking at 533 more.

So roughly 1333 init to get a beam hitting at cap speeds.

the hard cap is 1/1 mike? that is good news. I said that it was just things I heard, glad to get some new input.

Only thing I have personally observed is hammer +800 melee init is massively fast, if 1/1 is the cap then (at full agro) 1500-300(for full agro) = 1200 is capped.

and taking that into account mike (the 1/1) then you lose about 300 off the 1800 so 1500 init is needed. That is very close to your estimate, so not *that* far off. I just had the cap wrong

oh and i have heard from many many people that 600 takes off one second on attack, recharge is another thing altogether, people dont all agreee that it does anything BUT you say 800 is 1.5 seconds. You could not notice the difference 100 would make at the speeds you are talking about (1/6th of a second) so I dont know.

[Thyrra]

i heard the hard speed cap got lowered to .5 at some point. forget where, might have been those nutty MAs.

[______________Yazule]

Originally posted by Thyrra
i heard the hard speed cap got lowered to .5 at some point. forget where, might have been those nutty MAs.

I thought so too, the world may never know though.

[Breaku]

what the ??

what u guys talking about .. its like im in math class again or something.

bah... all i know is i push q and the mo fo dies

-cub
61 apprentice - hammer of doom holder

[______________Yazule]

Only thing I have personally observed is hammer +800 melee init is massively fast, if 1/1 is the cap then (at full agro) 1500-300(for full agro) = 1200 is capped.

my bad here full agro is -1 second so that is 600, so theory says 1500-600 = 900 is the cap if you are full agro.

I will be there very soon, I will post an update when I get there. (hehe like 120 init is coming soon LOL)

[Kinkstaah]

I'm at cap speeds.. I'll check right now. Just checked it (at cap speeds) that is 1/1

Remember, with a hammer you have to knock SEVEN SECONDS off the recharge, which means cap speeds are going to be about 70,000init :P

No thats not an actual number - But it wont happen.

[______________Obitus]

70k init? No Problem

Actually, it was my understanding that at full agg, you lost 1sec off your init and then by raising your init, you could lose another sec but that the cap was 1/1. So at what point would you decide that you have spend enough IP on melee init? If you are at capped speeds and you do a rage or a FOB, does it have any effect?

[engelstein]

Sorry, but your understanding is outdated. Full agg gives you no boost or penalty to attack speed. Full def gives about a two second penalty. I'll just toss in that with 300 init my 2.5 sec heal goes off in about .5 sec at full agg. But nano init doesn't affect recharge, so you may get an additional boost to its effect on attack time.

[______________Yazule]

Originally posted by Engelstein
Sorry, but your understanding is outdated. Full agg gives you no boost or penalty to attack speed. Full def gives about a two second penalty. I'll just toss in that with 300 init my 2.5 sec heal goes off in about .5 sec at full agg. But nano init doesn't affect recharge, so you may get an additional boost to its effect on attack time.

sorry bud, full agro makes you swing faster, I can actually SEE it. I run at 75% agro a lot when tanking (lower at times) and when I go to full it is faster.

No joke

It is true

I see no difference between 50% and 75% and 99%, but when it is 100%, there IS a difference.

[______________Yazule]

Originally posted by MiKEBoND
I'm at cap speeds.. I'll check right now. Just checked it (at cap speeds) that is 1/1

Remember, with a hammer you have to knock SEVEN SECONDS off the recharge, which means cap speeds are going to be about 70,000init :P

No thats not an actual number - But it wont happen.

hehe I will be going beam when I get some more inits bro, already decided that one. What did you check? the speed of your character? If so how did you check it. 1/1 may be right, just curious what you checked and how.

[______________Yazule]

Originally posted by Grosboeuf
sometimes, my flurry of blow bugs my melee init to high values.Then I do crit VERY often and without SG.

one question: what is the low targetting scope and where to find it?

oh sorry I missed that, low light targeting scope adds range and crits, but reduces inits.

Get them in the tools section of any store. Every tools section has either a low light targeting scope or a yamatuchi (sp?) that is a range increaser.

[Downsizr]

After some research :

For every 600 initiative, attack speed is lowered by 1 second.

For every 600 initiative, recharge speed is lowered by 2 seconds.

The minimum limit to both attack and recharge speed is 1 second (even if your initiative would bring it lower than that).

Your AggDef slider slows attack/recharge speeds by 1 second each at the neutral position, and by 2 seconds each at the full Defensive position.