Pet "Gestalt"

[_______________Juggy]

Allow Engineers to "Gestalt" with thier Pets for a limited amount of time depending on QL of the nano.
<Crystal must be made from mission-loot/boss loot parts at all levels>

QL  10 - Feeble        Gestalt -   5 Minute Duration - ( 1 Minute Disabled)
QL  25 - Lesser        Gestalt -  10 Minute Duration - ( 2 Minute Disabled)
QL  50 - Inferior      Gestalt -  15 Minute Duration - ( 3 Minute Disabled)
QL  75 - Flawed        Gestalt -  20 Minute Duration - ( 4 Minute Disabled)
QL 100 - Gestalt               -  30 Minute Duration - ( 6 Minute Disabled)
QL 125 - Upgraded      Gestalt -  45 Minute Duration - ( 9 Minute Disabled)
QL 150 - Advanced      Gestalt -  60 Minute Duration - (12 Minute Disabled)
QL 175 - Semi-Sentient Gestalt -  90 Minute Duration - (18 Minute Disabled)
QL 200 - Guardian      Gestalt - 120 Minute Duration - ( 5 Minute Disabled)

This would allow the Engineer to transferr his essence into the shell of his current pet, essentially "becoming" his pet for a limited amount of time.

The QL 200 version would not replace the "Slayerdroid Transferrance" nano, but instead, engineers that have that nano, could use a boss-drop item on themselves while using that nano to change the nano into the QL 200 Gestalt if they so desired.


No Special abilities would be granted the engineer while inhabiting the shell of his pet, other than the innate abililities of the pet itself, to include all HP and AC, and specials the pet normally has.


Once the Gestalt is either cancelled or completed its duration, the engineer leaves the shell of the pet, and enters into a "disabled" state similar to rez effects, with that duration equal to one-fifth the time the engineer was in a Gestalted state, to exclude the QL 200 nano version, which only has a 5-minute downtime (engineer has perfected the ability)


I believe firmly that this ability would enable engineers to become active contributors in PvP without overpowering them, without incresing thier power in PvE.


The nano-duration could be broken with a "counter nano" that is also not available in nano-form (only components) and drop-only.

This "counter nano" would be given to meta-physicists.

If the duration of the gestalt is countered, the engineer suffers the full-duration of the downtime.







How does this sound? i thought a lot about it.

[mithrax]

Originally posted by Juggy
No Special abilities would be granted the engineer while inhabiting the shell of his pet, other than the innate abililities of the pet itself, to include all HP and AC, and specials the pet normally has.

How much HP does a slayer have? 20k? You want twice the amount of HP than a enf with MK2 and mongo running?

[_______________Juggy]

Doesnt a pet normally have this?

Aditionally, does an enforcer need to be worried about having his HP fall from 20k to 500 in the blink of an eye, rendering him instantly killable, and unable to cast nanos, use weapons, or wear armor for 18 minutes?

[engelstein]

An Enf with Mongo probably has a lot more damage-dealing potential than an engy pet.

[ethernal3]

Actually ql 200 slayer pets have 42k hps.
~Chris

[mithrax]

Originally posted by Megabio
Actually ql 200 slayer pets have 42k hps.
~Chris

Ooooo that makes things so much easier

[_______________Juggy]

What is the difference between an AI-controlled Engi pet, or a PC-controlled Engi-pet?

Engi-pets are not invulnerable, they can and are routinely killed.

The "weak-spot" of the pet is that its master is quite literally, instantly killable, and once the master is killed, the pet is neither easier or harder to be killed.

LvL 200 Enforcers with thier Mongo, and Rage, and Essences would be raising hell if they had 0 ac's and could be instantly killed by level 10 metaphysicists.



I am allways however very interested in hearing serious ideas concerning Engineers and PvP, because to date, this idea is hands down IMHO the most realistic idea set to the table.

[mithrax]

A few question:
1: Will the engineer be able to use the pet healing nanos or the root braking nanos while in this state?
2: Will the engineer be able to have the Sloughing line of nanos uploaded while in this state?
3: Will the engineer be able to have RRFE, TTS and MoP while in this state?
4: Will the effect of reflect bracers still work while in this state?

Originally posted by Juggy

The "weak-spot" of the pet is that its master is quite literally, instantly killable, and once the master is killed, the pet is neither easier or harder to be killed.

Who in the right mind tries to kill the pet after the engi is dead?

Anyway I think you are on to something here and I think we can both agree that something has to be done to the engi prof.

Still a little worried about 42k Hp being a bit overpowering though........

[Militaryman666]

I know alot of people think that im on a tangent here... but let them think that, I know that right now, things need some major changes... Just look at all of the people that constantly leave this game because they are unhappy with their profession... well only a few classes do this.. I know for a fact that not many traders, MAs, Doc's, or Fixers have quit recently... they are quite content on what they have... and are even more satisfied that they are getting even more every patch.... ANYWAYS... here are my ideas for this idea

You could make it so that once you cast the nano it will instantly dispell all nanos you have on you and then activate the "Gestalt" as well as adding the effect to the nano that other players "Helpful" nanos wont affect you similar to the way their bot reacts to buffs and heals... make it so that they will actually become their own bot, as they get the boosts, they will only be able to cast their own nanos on themselves and be healed by an MP pet, that would be their extent of power... However they will have no specials activated at the time, the nano will also be minus 2000 to all attack skills in melee, ranged, misc, and body attack skills, however, while in the form of the robot, your attack skill and damage will be augmented to match that of your bot's, with your attack speed relying on your phys init.
This way you could use all of your bot buffs and heals on yourself, however every outside buff and heal other then MP pet heals will be denied. And all of your damage/attack rating will be on par with your bot, that way making it a standard between engineers.
it will basically set all of your evades, attack skills, inits, and AC's will be set to that of a standard bot... this way no engy will be better then the other and it will depend more on stratagy then who can raise their skills the highest...

[xyberviri]

Engineers have uhmm.......

Slayer Droid Transference


if you want to "enter" you pet then level till you can cast it on your self then you and your pet can both be a slayer droid.

But what your asking for is the ability to Mongo for 5-120 mins.


sorry you already can enter a pet so not gonna happen

Slaydroid Transference adds +150 to the big 3 AC's NOT all of them like the description says and also 300 to MA skill.

[Militaryman666]

Oh and just so you dont think im just some low level engy begging for improvements... im a 145 almost 200 , agent on RK 1
I think that engys need a major improvement, and this will do it... as well as a level 50, 100, and 180 self buff to trade skills and comp lit...
50= +75 to Elec/Mech Engineering, +60 all trade skills, and +40 to comp lit
100= +110 to Elec/Mech Engineering, +80 trade skills, and +60 comp lit
180= +160 to Elec/Mech Engineering, +130 trade skills, and +80 comp lit

[_______________Juggy]

Originally posted by Mithrax
A few question:
1: Will the engineer be able to use the pet healing nanos or the root braking nanos while in this state?
2: Will the engineer be able to have the Sloughing line of nanos uploaded while in this state?
3: Will the engineer be able to have RRFE, TTS and MoP while in this state?
4: Will the effect of reflect bracers still work while in this state?



Who in the right mind tries to kill the pet after the engi is dead?

Anyway I think you are on to something here and I think we can both agree that something has to be done to the engi prof.

Still a little worried about 42k Hp being a bit overpowering though........

I will go ahead and repeat a post i made regarding this in another thread that adresses these concerns, and more:

Originally posted by Juggy
quote:
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I suspect you're suggesting that the Engineer should merge with his pet.

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Yes, basically his bot will have the eingineers brain.
When the nano is finished, the engineer will be reconstructed, hence the res-sickness.


quote:
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In that case, what happens to the Engineer's skills?

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He will get everything his bot gets.
The engineer's skills will be replaced with whatever the bot's skills are.
The engineer may cast only his pet-only nanos at a penalty of twice nano cost, with the exception of his Gestalt-line of nanos.


quote:
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Crucially, would he be able to refresh the Gestalt nano while he was merged?

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No. This nano will not be able to be "refreshed" as it were.
This will prevent the skill from being used as an extensive solo-tool.
If this nano would be able to be refreshed indefinately, then there would be no difference between the QL 10 nano and the QL 200 nano, and the engineer would never experiance res-sickness for gestalting.


quote:
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If nanos can't be refreshed, again it'll be of limited use since the new Engineer nanos have short durations

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This is true, this is not meant to add to the engineer's ability to solo. At best it will provide the engineer with a way to prevent the "insta-kill" syndrome that is prevalent in PvP and will have a very minor effect in teaming situations, as the engineer will be much more useful outside his pet, than inside due to the disableing effect of the nano's termination.


quote:
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You'll be cancelling the gestalt in order to rebuff every 10 or 15 minutes

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Cancelling the Gestalt would induce res-sickness as the engineer would be reconstituing himself in a physical form.
This was a planned addition to prevent the engineer from becoming even more powerful in a solo/team environment.
Not to say it cant be used as such, just that its not really cost/time effective to do so in a non-PvP situation.



quote:
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Why bother with weapon skills when you're just going to use the bot's AMS anyway and you can stay in Gestalt all day if necessary?

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This is also what the non-refreshing penalty is to prevent.
Its use would be sole self-serving in PvP situations only, and allow the engineer to aviod entirely the "kill the engi in 1 shot, then kill his pet" situations that all engis face in PvP.


quote:
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Of course, if you're not using the bot's AMS then this nano is only of use to MA engies.
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Well, think of it this way.
The engineer will gain every combat-related skill the pet would normally have (buffed unbuffed whatever), and retain only his nano-skills (+treatment, first aid) so that he may cast his nanos at twice the cost.

He will have no weapon useage, because his pet does not come with weapons, his inventory will be "put on hold" while within the pet's body because his pet has no inventory.

If the pet has aby special skill such as dimach, fast attack, whatever... then the engineer will gain use of those while in gestalt as well.


quote:
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Why not just extend the transference line instead?

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Because the transferrance nano is a unique nano that not all engineers might want to give up (such as MA engineers).
However, it is not possible to have both the Transferrance nano and the QL 200 nano at the same time, since the Transferrance nano would be a require component in attaining the QL 200 Gestalt nano.
(The engineer would use transferrance, shift into a slayerdroid, and then use a boss-dropped item on himself. This action would change the nano in the engineers program library INTO the QL 200 Gestalt nano program)




I would like to add, that i wanted to adress Engineers in a PvP situation only, while having minimal impact on the Engineer's ability to either Solo or Team.



This gestalt line of nanos would, IMHO provide a very critical ability to allow the engineer to either flee or engage the enemy without instantly dying as is the norm today in PvP.

[_______________Juggy]

Originally posted by Xyberviri
Engineers have uhmm.......
Slayer Droid Transference

if you want to "enter" you pet then level till you can cast it on your self then you and your pet can both be a slayer droid.

But what your asking for is the ability to Mongo for 5-120 mins.

sorry you already can enter a pet so not gonna happen

Slaydroid Transference adds +150 to the big 3 AC's NOT all of them like the description says and also 300 to MA skill.

Please provide ideas that will support the enhancement of Engineers in a PvP situation while not enhancing them in either solo or team instances.

Posting that you think other people's ideas suck without any positive spin is both insulting and pointless.

[Warlock]

Its interesting because this has been suggested before (I think it was by me actually :-) in the now famouse 'Gadgets thread' in the Engineer board.

What was suggested at the time was a kind of 'posession' where the bot acts under the controls of the player, while the Engineers body is immobile (think of Trader charm). Essentially the Engineers abilities are unavailable while this is in effect and any damage to the Engineers body breaks the connection also the connection would have a finite distance. You could also introduce feedback bamage to the Engineer when the bot takes damage (or only crits perhaps)

The practical upshot of this would enable the Engineer to scout out an area, participate in combat and negate pathing problems.

I would really like to know how one poster worked out this would be like giving an Engineer Mongo? Bots do comparitively low damage, and as such dont hold agro well so the large ammount of HP only really helps an Engineers survivability when solo'ing (which we are good at anyway). It does on the otherhand address the main reason Engineers arent popular in teams, in that pathing slows down the team and prevents the Engineer from contributing much damage

[Centurion3]

I think funcom was working on us being able to play an monster awhile ago... think it was due to be released... last summer...

This would be almost the same I recon, and I dont think we'll see this either...

[mithrax]

Originally posted by Warlock
I would really like to know how one poster worked out this would be like giving an Engineer Mongo?

I was only comparing the HP effect of the mongo. With mongo a high lvl enf gets close to or more than 10k HP. This was only to compare the HP an engi would get compared to a high lvl enf. At first i thought a slayer had 20k HP, but it turns out it has 42k. This means four times as much HP as a high lvl enf.
That was my point and nothing else

Who needs to hold agro in PvP anyway?

[________jdiobwanknby]

Great Idea you have i agree 100% The fact is that engies suck at PvP, dont even have a chance. The few new nanos we recieved are nice but dont help us very much in pvp. Sure we might ward off a special attack or 2 but we still have no evades, no hp, poor ac buffs, poor shield buffs, pets who cannot path, listen or do much damage, and no heal. Loot at intrepids signature below he says it all. "= worst prof in the game". That is why fewer than 3 percent of all players above 190 are engies. OBVIOUSLY something is wrong. Especially when other professions sympathize with you regulary in the engie forum. That is what is so sad. And about SLAYERDROID TRANSFERENCE, it SUCKS! All we get is +300 to MA that is it, nothing else, we look cool maybe but that is it. A USELESS nano as it is. Also Bump for tradeskill buff. How can traders be better than engineers at building stuff. Out in the real world Engineers design Millitary Jets, Great Buildings, Bridges, etc. It just does not make sense other than FC wants to keep us the red-headed step children of the game. The doormat of all other professions to wipe their muddy feet on. Its Sad, really Sad. Please feel free to view my post "Fellow Engies I need your help on this suggestion. "

[____________Intrepid]

Originally posted by Mithrax

3: Will the engineer be able to have RRFE, TTS and MoP while in this state?
.

No only engie nanos can be cast on engie pets.

[mithrax]

Originally posted by Intrepid
No only engie nanos can be cast on engie pets.

That was not my question. I was wondering if the Ingineer could have TTS, essence, RRFE casted on him/her befour using the gestalt nano thus still benifit from the crit effects.

I think Juggy answered that question

[Centurion3]

Originally posted by Mithrax


That was not my question. I was wondering if the Ingineer could have TTS, essence, RRFE casted on him/her befour using the gestalt nano thus still benifit from the crit effects.

I think Juggy answered that question

Your talking like this is actually gonna happend... :P