MP Wishlist: Weapon Skills

[____________Mindfire]

How bout if we get the MP an actual usable weapon skill.

Almost (if not) all weapon skills are dark blue... granted we are MPs and we have pets and nukes, but when you take into consideration the pet pathing problems and higher level mobs that counter nearly every nano we throw at them, you begin to see that MPs arent all they can be.
As it is right now, against a high level mob (200+), our pets (if they make it to the mob at all) will constantly miss, even with the new evocation nanos, they still miss quite a bit, and their damage is laughable.
Our nukes are constantly countered... if they do hit, it's for a measly amount of damage.

All we have left to look forward to at higher levels (130+) are weapons. This is bad because since all of our weapon skills are dark blue our attack rating will never be as high as another profession of a comparable level using any weapon their class was meant to use... and thus, our damage output suffers considerably.

I think we need at least one usable weapon skill, be it pistol, bow, 1he... hell even knife throwing would be a step in the right direction. I'm not saying we neccesarily need a green skill, but just something that wouldn't be a huge IP sink.

I would personally like to see MPs with a lighter bow skill... I am very interested in the idea of a Creation: Bow nano and think it would be a natural weapon for the MP to use. It certainly fits the Meta-Physical Priestly mold better than a rifle or a machine gun. The only problem I see with this is a complete lack of Bow Buffs (aside from expertise) meaning we could never be OE'd with a bow, but we could never use the best either. That and Bows are an MA thing.

Anyways, to recap...

I think MP's need a usable weapon skill.
I personally would like a lighter Bow skill.


just a thought and an opinion.

[Xtremtech]

Yup it's clear that MPs need to have more effective weapons at higher levels. There's already a wishlist going for Creation Bows - which would of course give us great attack ratings if we ever get them. But if we don't get them or the improved 1HB/2HB creations damage then we are still left with problems!

So a few questions to everyone:

• 1) Which skill would be the prefered skill to change the cost/max of?
  2) What range should the skill be put into - ranges include:
  . 1.0-1.4 (max 600, 5 pts) Green
  . 1.5-2.4 (max 540, 4 pts) Light Blue
  . 2.5-3.4 (max 480, 4 pts) Dark Blue
  . 3.5-4.4 (max 420, 3 pts) Dark Blue
  3) What about the connected Init skill? Should that also be improved?
  4) Whichever skill is chosen, how would our damage profile look given that we euipped an excellent weapon for that skill?

Just the questions that come to mind off the tope of my head.

X

[____________Mindfire]

I'm going to have to submit my vote for Bow (of course).

With all the hopes for a new creation bow, and the already in-game bows, not to mention how kool they look while flying around in QW... plus its a "natural" weapon... nothing hi-tech like rifles or lasers or anything.

Unfortunately, as I previously stated, there are NO bow buffs available(besides exp). So I think we'd have to have a green bow skill (1.0-1.4 max 600, 5 pts) just to have access to the higher level Bows. I'm not just saying that because we want a green weapon skill, but because as it is now, if FC does choose to add a Creation: Bow nano... it would probably have very high reqs to wield... and no external bow buffs = non-equippable new weapon. Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, but that's the trend I see happening lately with the new nanos and stuff.

As for the init skill... I don't see any reason for that to be green... yeah we'd shoot a little faster but after all this is just supposed to be something to supplment our already awesome damage dealing capabilities. (/sarcasm) I would suggest just a normal blue shade. (2.5-3.4 max 480, 4 pts). But of course the higher one would be welcomed.

As for the weapon damage, I really have no idea... I don't use weapons as of yet and I've never really payed special attention to anyone using bows so I can't comment on what the damage _should_ be.

I would also like to see the skill improved be the only req for at least one of the weapons of that type. (ex. Schuyler's req only bow, Vektors req only shotgun) There's already a decent bow that takes only one skill, so I don't think we'd actually need to ask for any new content involved with this change. (aside from the already requested Creation Bow)

ah well... just a couple thoughts on the subject.

[Alpherah]

Green bow skill.. hmm
Better watch out, i hear 50% crit nerf is uneffected in "Forum-Flame-Wars "

Seriously, MA's will go Crazy over this lol

[____________Mindfire]

Yeah I kinda figured the MA's would complain about it... but hey, I've never seen an MA use a bow until recently. I've seen more agents running around with them than anyone else... and it's not like Bow is an MA specialty, if it wasn't for their green skill they wouldn't even come to mind when you think of what class would get the most use from a bow.

[Xtremtech]

Just adding a pointer to the fact that we do in fact have a best weapons skill already of course.

Pistol (although Dark Blue) falls into the 1.5-2.4 (max 540, 4 pts) range and as a result maxes out at 60 points more than all of our other cheap weapons skills and at 120 more than most of them. This is the same maximum as a light blue skill (although more expensive in IP terms). The maxima quoted here are excluding ability trickledown.

A level 200 Solitus MP with maxed abilities and fully QL200 implanted for Pistol can reach 880 pistol skill.

Pistol buffs are also available in game. Pistol mastery from the soldier (+40), Extreme Prejudice from the Engineer (+120), Gunslinger fom the crat (+20). I'm not sure which of these stack but taking Pistol Expertise and Extreme Prejudice you'd get 1020 skill.

Except for the IP cost then - we already have the equal of a light blue skill in Pistol and we can achieve excellent attack ratings with that weapon. The difficulty of multi-wielding aside... this is a perfectly reasonable, though costly, weapons skill.

X

[Alpherah]

I imagine that the Pain Of Patricia (should we ever be lucky enough to get our hands on one- Yes i know its been dropped before.. but chances of every high lvl mp/nt/crat getting one arnt exactly high) Would hurt quite a bit with that AR.. as well as havin flingshot and burst.. ouchies =)

[Xtremtech]

Pistol is a perfectly decent option for damage for an MP I always thought. Good AR, ranged etc... if only the multi-wield requirements on them weren't so ludicrously high on the whole it might make a reasonable weapons choice for the MP.

For me of course guns don't come into question... but if I had been a supporter of guns - I'd have chosen pistol like a shot (sic)

X

[Xtremtech]

Mindfire,

You said:

I'm not saying we neccesarily need a green skill, but just something that wouldn't be a huge IP sink.

Now with Pistol we have a skill that can be maxed to the same level of skill as a light blue skill. If you didn't necessarily want the skill to be green - then this essentially acts like a light blue skill. Is that enough? You mentioned Pistol as one of your suggestions and there's a few good buffs around for it too.

As to the IP sink question... well whatever weapons skill you make lighter you're still going to be putting IP into the Init skill for it (very expensive) - or your damage profile will be very small unless you're at full agg and happen to have a very fast weapon.

And then of course, it's not like 130+ MPs don't have enough IP going spare to raise a Dark Blue skill. At present, I have maxed or near max:

MA
Brawl
Dimach
1HB
Parry
Bow
Phys Init

I also have around 400 in Multi Melee and Fast attack, some in Bow special, Aimed Shot and Riposte too.... I've not exactly been starved of IP for weapons skills as you see....

I'm not sure what it is that you're trying to achieve with this suggestion. Is it that you really do want a green skill? Is it that you want to be able to do decent damage and so want a better attack rating? What it is that you're after here?

X

[zophee]

I do not really care about weapon skills, since I feel neither weapon fits MPs really good. Not to overstress it but we're _Meta_phsicists which are meant to gain power from their greater overall understandings of how the universe works ....
But back to reality - since our pets ar no full replacement of a weapon I vote in general for extreme LowTech weapons (w/o fancy knick-knack) as non-physical as possible. Personally I'd prefer Bow (ranged in general).

DZ

[_____________kinbari]

I'm not sure what it is that you're trying to achieve with this suggestion. Is it that you really do want a green skill?

No, it's just I wanted some kind of weapon skill that wouldn't take 10 levels worth of IP to max and give decent AR... basically I just seen the dark blue color of all the weapon skills and never experimented with actual IP costs. Guess I'm just lazy like that. Too bad it's pistol tho... they're not exactly my idea of the kind of weaponry an MP would be using since it's already bad enough that we _must_ use a weapon in the first place. Ah well, thx for the info... dark blue weapon skills here I come!

[Xtremtech]

Cool. A lot of people aren't aware of the different IP costs of the various skills. For those who want to check out options for themselves there's the Anarchy Lore Skillcosts Table which is an invaluable resource for me.

I'll let this wishlist item drop for now then, unless somebody else out there would like to extend it or make a different suggestion with their reasoning.

X

[Bionitrous]

2HE!

Both I and a nanomage MP both came up with this choice independently. Funny that both of us picture it as fitting the MP image of the holy warrior. Flaming Sword or the Archangel Michael and all that.

Mine's a Queen Blade and at 175 I have a 890 Attack Rating with all the bells and whistles running. I guess TL6 would provide another 20 or 30 depending when they cap me again.

Only aversion I have to the Bow (besides seeming Robin Hood, Adventurish, Cupid-like) is that we've got an arsenal of ranged weapons already. Almost seems unfair to be able to stand 30 meters from a fight and send an attack pet, be healed, nuke, shoot arrows, debuff, and stun. But, I'd certainly support it as an option if the weapon used the Bow skill but didn't actually take the form of a bow and arrow and was instead a Creation Weapon more fitting with our image as matter manipulators and summoners. A sling would even seem more fitting to me, but, that's Thrown Objects.

As for IP, yeah I got 2HB, 2HE, Melee Init, Brawl, and FastAtttack maxed. Dimache is next on the list to pay attention to.

[Xtremtech]

ROFLMAO! I had you in mind as I posted that last sentence... lol... I knew you'd be in there...

Bio, as you already know the 2HE is one of our cheaper weapons skills already. Would you like to make a proposal based around it being improved to light blue/green?

I worry about choosing light coloured melee weapons skills for the MP. You and I both know that the nanomage MP is perfectly capable of taking a beating if he's built right - but we can also both agree that it has its disadvantages too and that our playstyle desires are somewhat unorthodox - in that we like to look death in the eye and try to beat it.

If we did get a light blue or green melee weapons skill, you can be certain that it would swiftly be followed by calls for better evades, better HP, better heal pets, available weapons buffs etc etc etc...

This is the biggest problem, I fear, with improving our weapons skills - at some basic level it would change the very nature of our profession and then be followed by more and more changes in that direction.

Still if you'd like to put together a proposal for it, we can discuss it.

X

[Wizz]

If a change had to be made I'd say to switch around the costs for pistol and 1HB, the reason being newcomers start with such a weapon.

Now regarding our weapon skills as such and the way I see the MP I don't think a solution to improve our attack rating (thus our weapon damage output) should come from giving us lighter color skills.

Doing so would allow the equipping of whatever. People have ressource to find the right combination of implants, buffs and advantage items. This would further allow making the MP become a weapon profession, which I don't think he should be.

I'm a lot more in favor of increasing the number of Creation weapons so that at least all the melee weapon skills are covered.

As any Creation will retain the same pattern of 80% T&S and 20% weapon skill we would be able to reach acceptable attack rates, thus hit more, for a bit more points even the high end mobs.
Now damage on Creations should not become our main means of damage in my opinion, and solutions are to be found where problems are, not walk-arounds that disfigure the template.

If anything I'd drool over a Creation two-handed sword. And the name is Azrael, the archangel that delivers you from your pain by offering you death out of compassion for your suffering, tssk. Yeah, green 2HE for nanomage MPs only! I OWNZ J00 N00BZ! *pant* *pant* *pant*

-Sorry

/me drools to see what Bio can come up with as a blade.

[Bionitrous]

No changes in weapon skill cost IP. It won't happen is about the biggest can of worms liable to be opened. The Adventurer Multi-Wield fiasco saw to that.

Basically, the only way we can expect to get our weapon damage respectable (I quietly say that mine is respectable now. But, I think I'm an odd case with 2HE, Atrox, Legchopper Gloves, and the Queen Blade, as well as a Guardian Tower adding to my weapon skil) is to have creation weapons that have T&S as part of their ATK formula. It could be Sharp Objects for all that matters if ATK was 80% T&S.

As for NanoMage, I honestly feel they need a way to leverage their higher nanoskills and nanopool without drawing additional damage. I expect to draw agro. I would expect the Nanomage MP to shy from it a bit more than I. I already can't use the two highest Evocations. You can see that this puts the Nanomage in the position of having his pet do more damage than mine and consequently holding more agro than mine. I see this as fitting and proper.

My personal preference for melee weapons is based on image and the fact that we have quite a number of ranged tools already. In fact, something about the 2HE drawing blood shies me from it a bit in fact. I only justify it in my mind by drawing upon the image of the angels who used them in religious mythos.

In short, I don't think any suggestion that skill costs be modified will be considered. Pushing the image of mystical summoned weapons imbued with mystical energy will go further. If the 2HB line would provide a weapon on par with my Queen Blade in practical use, I'd switch my implants back as I've kept 2HB maxed in addition to 2HE. In pure game mechanics, we are the closest to 'Clerics' as any profession in terms of being classed as buffers, debuffers, healers, and 2nd rate damage dealers. The fact that some of our strength comes from manifestations of our inward strength doesn't change that.

I'll let you know that I haven't nuked in about a month or so (almost did the other night, but the thing was dead as I was preparing the program). That is fine with me as I have no desire to mimic the NT or Crat. However, I'm sure the Nanomage would think otherwise. Once again, fine with me. This profession is probably the last remaining that presents itself to the various breeds with a different flavor toward each. I would sincerely hate to see some kind of 'uber-cyber deck' thingy that every single MP would have to wield in order to stay on par with the game. A Creation Weapon whatever skills it called on that was clearly superior to any other choice for the MP would ensure that we would be joining all the other clone professions.

[Xtremtech]

Cool Bio,

I'll drop this for now then as it would seem that all are in agreement that the weapons skillcosts of the MP do not at this time require changing.

Unless somebody else would like to argue for it?

X

[Toxinator]

I dont want some ****ty bow sorry.

Anything is else is great but just remember no matter what you choose someone will be POed

[_________BettiePaige]

I'll vote for rifle being light blue, making any skill for us green will get us nerfed quickly.

[Veshel]

Don't like having to look like a soldier, or fixer carrying a manex,

make our creation weapons provide us with greater benefits. More nano, enhanced evades, increased range to nukes, or lower nano cost etc.

I strongly dislike being pushed into regular range weapons, and yes even bows.

The creation items shouldn't be great weapons, but they need a real upgrade as to their effects to be desirable.