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Thread: Revist of new QW nano

  1. #1

    Revist of new QW nano

    before i forget this.. was thinking it over last night... about a version of QW which would allow casting of nanos in flight...

    something like this..

    Mocham's Flight:

    [Requirements/Cost yet to be determined]

    Modifiers:
    Nano Cost: 8%
    Nano Init.: -17
    Run Speed: (maybe a bit slower than QW too?)

    Description:
    Mocham's tweaked version of Quantum Wings allows the Meta-Physicist to cast nanos during flight. This ability has some drawbacks as the Castor must keep some of his concentration on flight.


    sound good? maybe see about getting this fleshed out more and get FC's consideration on it? i mean heck.. they have yalms with guns on them now yea know..

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  2. #2
    What kinds of nanos do you think we could cast while flying without putting other players at a great disadvantage???

    Although it would be awesome to be able to nuke people from above (Ala Zeus... Hehehe...) it would place melee classes at a disadvantage since they would not be able to fight back...

    What nanos did you have in mind???

  3. #3
    i think this would be neat...although nukes and debuffs would have to be off limits....hell id settle for a version of quantum wings that could be recast while still in the air...
    President of Midnight Reveries

  4. #4
    /me points at wishlist thrtead stickied at the top...

    Drop in on the Quantum Wings section linked in the index.

    You can only do it for non-hostile nanos though or it's too overpowered.

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  5. #5
    Originally posted by Primordious
    What kinds of nanos do you think we could cast while flying without putting other players at a great disadvantage???

    Although it would be awesome to be able to nuke people from above (Ala Zeus... Hehehe...) it would place melee classes at a disadvantage since they would not be able to fight back...

    What nanos did you have in mind???
    if yea cant nuke.. what'd be the point?

    maybe if the range of the nukes (and any other nanos) were serverly limited, so it wouldnt create a huge advantage over MA, etc.

    so maybe nukes and buffs... but with a more limited range.. that makes us still vulnerable to melee.

    main reasons i threw in the added nano cost and the init debuff was to slow down trying to chain-nuke, etc.

    and unless the nano stims (whatever they're called) work while we're in this flight.. we would still have to kill the flight to recharge nano. hmm.. something i really didnt even think of.. hehe.. the recharging of nano factor.. tho i dont think it'd be a huge issue. at least if the nano stims work.. or maybe we'd just need someone there with us to recharge our nano... hmm..

    Level 1 to 300 in 8 Years! Pwn!
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  6. #6
    if yea cant nuke.. what'd be the point?
    Things that were mentioned in the wishlist thread were giving buffs to people without having to kill the wings, flying into PvP areas and being able to buff and get the pets up while flying and only landing when that was done and a couple of other things.

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  7. #7
    How about casting it indoors so that if you zone immediately after it will be in effect when you're outdoors? That would help when leaving missions in dangerous places.
    Heals - they're not just for tradeskills anymore
    Hypos omni doc RK2 <-- stupid enough to have thought that going past level 150 would help her be a better doc
    Phlair omni mp RK2 solo char
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    Shadow Ops

  8. #8
    Yup that's included in the wishlist item - having it stay "on" somehow indoors so that it works like a yalm.

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  9. #9
    Originally posted by XtremTech
    Yup that's included in the wishlist item - having it stay "on" somehow indoors so that it works like a yalm.

    X
    hmm.. how would that work tho.. as QW is a nano... and well.. yalm isnt... would it still be ncu present and ticking away? or would it just go into like a "hibernate" state and disapear from the ncu list?

    it would be a great feature. but not too worth while if the timer is still ticking while indoors and unable to utilize it.

    Level 1 to 300 in 8 Years! Pwn!
    - Join us on Discord! -
    AO WIKI!
    Arcanum!


  10. #10
    More elaboration on the nano..
    Code:
    Mocham's Flight: 
    
    Requirements:
    Matter Meta: 620
    Bio Meta:    620
    Time Space:  620
    Meta-Physicist
    
    Modifiers: 
    Nano Cost: 8% 
    Nano Init.: -17 
    Nano Range: (distance of melee combat)
    
    Description: 
    Mocham's tweaked version of Quantum Wings allows the Meta-Physicist to cast nanos during flight. 
    This ability has some drawbacks as the Castor must keep some of his concentration on flight.
    tho, i'm starting to think the nano cost and nano init values need to be increased... maybe 14% nano cost and -50 nano init.

    i see it as you have the ability to cast nanos while in flight just in case you need to.. but you dont exatcly want to do alot of combat.

    Level 1 to 300 in 8 Years! Pwn!
    - Join us on Discord! -
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  11. #11
    If we could see a bit more discussion on whether we feel that the MP should be able to cast hostile nanos while flying that'd be good.

    Shadow: would you expect pets to be commandable for attack heal etc during flight too?

    We've always assumed that we wouldn't get combat while flying because it was taken away by FC once. Still things have changed a little with the coming of Notum Wars... perhaps there's a caser to be made for it now...

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  12. #12
    Originally posted by XtremTech
    If we could see a bit more discussion on whether we feel that the MP should be able to cast hostile nanos while flying that'd be good.

    Shadow: would you expect pets to be commandable for attack heal etc during flight too?

    We've always assumed that we wouldn't get combat while flying because it was taken away by FC once. Still things have changed a little with the coming of Notum Wars... perhaps there's a caser to be made for it now...

    X
    pets.. hmm.. i really hadnt put very much thought into them.. if any..

    but i'll put it this way:

    If we get the ability to nuke while in flight, we shouldnt beable to control our pets.

    If we dont get the ability to nuke in flight, we should beable to control our pets.

    either way.... i feel a main point about a new QW is the ability to do some sorta attacking/defending while using it.

    i see this version as something you'd use when scouting a hostile area... not for trying to quickly get to a mission or location..

    essentially make it the MP's version of the new attack yalms. and if they wanna make it a NW only nano, like the new yalms.. so be it.. i have my copy

    Level 1 to 300 in 8 Years! Pwn!
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  13. #13
    and if they wanna make it a NW only nano, like the new yalms.. so be it.. i have my copy
    Do the new yalms only actually allow you to attack in Notum Wars battles then? I don't really know much about them. Do they allow you to fly out of reach when attacked? How did FC limit their attack capabilities?

    It's an interesting idea to have the Battle Yalm equivalent of the wings though. I know that the reason they stopped us using the pets while flying was that we could just order the pets onto a target and then fly off without putting ourselves in any risk at all. I presume that they still wouldn't allow that to happen. But given that there are towers and nanos that will kick our wings off and we can only nuke/debuff from within range of those nanos - I suppose the ability to nuke/debuff while flying might be allowable.

    Would we want to be able to use all of the nukes, debuffs etc? Or just a selection? How useful would it really be to be able to do this while flying in practice?

    Just some questions to help formulate a better proposal that could go into the wishlist.

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  14. #14
    That would make MP's pretty unkillable.

    MP fights X class.
    MP realises he/she can't win.
    MP flies to a safe place and heals up/reconsiders strategy/takes off.

    You might argue that fixers also have the ability to "evacuate" by gridding out, but I really don't want my class to have that ability.

    Fixers gridding out is by most considered cowardish (given the fixer has voluntarily gone to a PvP zone with the purpose of partisipating in PvP combat). I feel that the ability to fly out of attack range would be easier to "exploit". Back of just a notch and put up an innocent face when the enforcer can't pound on you with his beam (dang, sorry, didn't mean to go out of your range). If we also had the ability to control pets while airborn, we could just fly out of range and let the pets do the dirty work.

    I fear it would make MP's a hated class by most when it comes to PvP, not because it would make us any better at it, but because we would all be considered unkillable cowards since a few would undoubtably exploit this new ability.

    Making this work without being exploitable would probably mean lots of programming for Funcom, I don't expect to see it anytime soon, but I'm all for new MP features
    Satyrika - 207 Metaphysicist
    Satyrella - 200 Martial Artist

  15. #15
    Saty,

    I've always given the exact same response... but if the new yalms allow you to attack people from the air with built-in weapons - then FC must surely have found some way of making the implementation of attack while flying one that isn't massively unbalancing....

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  16. #16
    Originally posted by Saty
    That would make MP's pretty unkillable.

    MP fights X class.
    MP realises he/she can't win.
    MP flies to a safe place and heals up/reconsiders strategy/takes off.

    You might argue that fixers also have the ability to "evacuate" by gridding out, but I really don't want my class to have that ability.

    Fixers gridding out is by most considered cowardish (given the fixer has voluntarily gone to a PvP zone with the purpose of partisipating in PvP combat). I feel that the ability to fly out of attack range would be easier to "exploit". Back of just a notch and put up an innocent face when the enforcer can't pound on you with his beam (dang, sorry, didn't mean to go out of your range). If we also had the ability to control pets while airborn, we could just fly out of range and let the pets do the dirty work.

    I fear it would make MP's a hated class by most when it comes to PvP, not because it would make us any better at it, but because we would all be considered unkillable cowards since a few would undoubtably exploit this new ability.

    Making this work without being exploitable would probably mean lots of programming for Funcom, I don't expect to see it anytime soon, but I'm all for new MP features
    unless the MP killed the wings.. the only way they could heal up would prolly be with a stim or maybe a doc healing them.

    we already have the advantage of casting the current QW while in a fight. so its really not a huge deal.

    and with the new wings.. you'd be casting slower and taking a larger hit on your np for each nano cast. which could leave you open to getting hit more than hitting.

    also, i dont see the new wings being considerably fast either. it would add some to the runspeed, but not a huge deal. so someone could still chase after us if they wanted.

    and the backing up to not get hit.. well.. you could do that now without flying... if you back up out of melee range, you cant attack either with nanos being range limited to the distance of melee.

    i've tried to cover most of the obvious exploits here.

    such as with, for example the Manta vehicle (From auno.org ):
    "On Use: hit attacker health projectile ac -800 .. -800"

    on use of attacking someone with it, you get hit with 800 points of damage. although, what i have outlined for the new QW is its taking larger chunks out of your nano. since from what i have seen and understand, there are fewer ways to replenish your nano than health while standing and in battle.

    also:

    "On Use: lock user heavy weapons 10s"

    you also get your heavy weapons locked for 10 seconds... which i guess i'd assume thats what the vehicles attack is considered... though i really dont know much about the locking of a skill.. maybe we should add something like this to all nano skills on each nano cast.


    so please, give suggestions on how to fix exploitable situations instead of just pointing em out and generally seeming to be negative about it

    Level 1 to 300 in 8 Years! Pwn!
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  17. #17
    Shadow:

    unless the MP killed the wings.. the only way they could heal up would prolly be with a stim or maybe a doc healing them.
    The heal pet at present will continue to heal you after you have put on your wings if you're within range of it. So you'd still have a heal as long as you didn't fly too high.

    The nanocost and nanoC-init parts would depend upon the level of the MP they were designed for. You'd either need to make a range of wings with different penalties or if you have just one QL - it might be better tovary the penalties depending upon the level fo the MP at time of casting or something.

    The reduction of nano range to 3 metres might be a bit harsh - though I can see your reasoning on it. Let's see what others think about that.

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  18. #18
    Guess I'm gonna have to have the unpopular opinion here and say that I see nothing wrong with nano's working normally with QW in effect. Would it give us an advantage ? Sure, so what is wrong with that ? Lot's of classes have advantages, we have alot of disadvantages.

    Melee professions choose their profession because of how powerful melee weapons and martial arts can be. The downside to that power is that it has very limited range. But if range is never a factor against the MA/Enforcer, then how can it really be considered a disadvantage ? Should they get fast, powerful weapons that have no drawbacks ? Since if they can always close the distance to their target, then range simply is not an issue with these weapons. Snare ? Root ? Say hello to my good friend Free Movement stims.

    The bulk of our defence and offence is tied up in our pets. It would seem to me we are balanced around that idea. However it's trivial to bypass our pets and go straight for us. This eliminates our only real defense rather easily. We can't stand toe to toe with fighting professions, we weren't designed to or meant to. This is what our pets are for. But we cannot force players to fight our pets, so they don''t, they kill us because that is much easier than killing our pet usually.

    So I have to laugh a little when I hear QW would allow us to have our pets fight for us. Well, that is what they are supposed to be doing. We lose damage and the ability to cripple our foes if we only use our pets, and if we get close enough to use them (our nano's), we are open to attack by ranged weapons and nano's. I don't believe we need a limited combat flight spell that forces us to be in melee range to cast nano's. We have no way to exploit melee's disadvantage to our own advantage as we lack snares and roots, being able to stay out of their reach would be an interesting alternative. I think instead of a new nano what should be done is allowing nano use while in flight, and pet commands, but creating a counter to someone in flight (more for melee classes, classes with ranged attacks aren't really affected.

  19. #19
    If melee classes were given a counter for our flight, then it should be easily accessible to them...
    Which means that everyone would have one...
    Which in turn would remove our advantage of attacking while in flight...
    Which would then make it a useless nano...

    The issue is that with being able to attack while in flight is the equivalent to granting us *invincibility* against melee classes...

    I can think of ways this can be exploited...
    Can you imagine the squadrons of MPs flying around PVP areas, slaughtering all melee players with their air raids???

    All classes should be able to defend themselves against all other classes with other means than running...
    Even if the attept is seemingly futile...

    Giving a class an advantage over another is one thing...
    But a class shouldn't be given invincibility over another...

  20. #20
    Can you imagine the squadrons of MPs flying around PVP areas, slaughtering all melee players with their air raids???
    Lol... /me hears the valkyrie theme music in the background and drifts of into a reverie...

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

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