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Thread: MP Wishlist: Creation Shield - Change to Non-Weapon

  1. #1

    MP Wishlist: Creation Shield - Change to Non-Weapon

    Hey All,

    I've had a couple of in-game chats with people recently where suggestions were made as to how Creation Shields could be changed so that they are no longer weapons but instead would be armour pieces, utilities and the like. The idea is to enable us to use our defensive creation shields whilst using a ranged weapon which we all know is the preferable secondary weapon style for the MP on the whole. It would help us greatly in PvP (whether group or duel) if the defensive elements in the shield could still be accessed.

    There seem to be two main ideas:
    • 1) The Creation shields are changed to equip in the Arm slot where armour would usually go. As such it would replace an arm piece. It would probably be a good idea to increase the values on the ACs a little bit so that the arm-piece we'd sacrifice would be included. Perhaps taking an Aug Nano arm figures and adding them in.

      2) The Creation shields are changed to equip in the Utils slot. In order to have an effect that would have to be 'used' in the same way that a parry shield needs to be used - by right clicking it or using it from the shortcut bar. This would probably mean that the shield would not be visible ().

      In this position we could either just need to use it once for it to have its effect and make the duration of the effect as long as the duration of the shield - or we could increase the defensive values considerably and have the shield effect give a much shorter duration (5 minutes maybe) but then include a skills lock so that we could only use it from time to time... perhaps a 15 minute skill lock for a 5 minute effect. It might be an idea to add a new line of Creation: Parry Shields that worked like this.


    I look forward to an interesting discussion on which way would be best and what values we might want to give the shields.

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  2. #2
    I would prefer the armor version since it would make the shields visible on our chars. The creation weapons are atm one of our class defining abilities, so I would apreciate a solution which can include visiblity to others.
    [DarkZone], member of the e)X(odus
    [Zophee], [codCrat] both Clan of Darkness members

  3. #3
    I'd be tickled pink to have my Queen Blade in my right hand and this thing to visibly appear on my left arm. I'd feel like Michael coming down from heaven to inflict furious retribution upon the non-believers.

  4. #4
    I think the first option would be abetter choice sine a majority of players seem to prefer the aesthetic value of an item just as much or even more so than it's beneficial statistics...

    It doesn't seem as appealing to be able to summon something noone else can see as oppossed to this huge shield with flames (or the image of, rather...) spouting from the center...

  5. #5
    Just thought I'd mention something that occured to me... if we were ever to get our one-piece summoned armour (well - we can dream can't we?) then the shield wouldn't go on with it. I see this as a good thing. You'd have two options on defence. MP armour or normal Armour with MP shield.

    Anyway... back to the proposal - adding in normal sleeve armour stats for nano armour we'd get:

    Creation: Vital Buckler QL59

    Requirements:
    1hBluntWeapons 193
    TimeSpace 292

    Parry +10
    MaxHP +170

    ACs: +146

    Creation: Notum Defender QL72

    Requirements:
    1hBluntWeapons 233
    TimeSpace 354

    Nano Cost -3%
    Nanopool +370
    NanoResist +10

    ACs: +194

    Creation: Solar Guard QL85

    Requirements:
    1hBluntWeapons 282
    TimeSpace 427

    DMSModifier +100
    Reflect FireAC +15

    ACs: +275

    Creation: Living Shield of Evernan QL112

    Requirements:
    1hBluntWeapons 375
    TimeSpace 568

    Parry +24
    MaxHP +342

    ACs: +282

    Nano Crystal (Creation: Wave Breaker)(129)

    Requirements:
    1hBluntWeapons 430
    TimeSpace 651

    Nano Cost -6%
    Nanopool +684
    NanoAC +24

    ACs: +352


    Creation: Belthior's Flame Ward QL147

    Requirements:
    1hBluntWeapons 494
    TimeSpace 749

    DMSModifier +160
    Reflect FireAC +23

    ACs: +457

    Creation: Death Ward QL177

    Requirements:
    1hBluntWeapons 602
    TimeSpace 913

    Parry +37
    MaxHP +481

    ACs: +445

    Creation: Mocham's Guard QL187

    Requirements:

    1hBluntWeapons 618
    TimeSpace 936

    Nano Cost -10%
    Nanopool +857
    Nano Resist +37

    ACs: +510


    Creation: Shield of Asmodian QL205

    Requirements:
    1hBluntWeapons 683
    TimeSpace 1035

    DMSModifier +210
    Reflect FireAC +30

    ACs: +660

    How does it look?

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  6. #6
    Creation: Shield of Asmodian QL205

    Requirements:
    1hBluntWeapons 683
    TimeSpace 1035

    DMSModifier +210
    Reflect FireAC +30

    ACs: +660
    I'd dump all my saved IP's into 1HB and bother myself to go find a 100+ Wrangle every time this thing timed out on me. Would probably fill the final missing part of my character make-up.

    The added AC seems a bit high, however for some reason.

  7. #7
    Shield of Asmodian AC (QL199) at present gives: +410, QL200 Nano Armour sleeve adds 250. Add the two together and you get +660.

    I did the same for all of the pieces. Remember we sacrifice a sleeve in order to wear the shield there, so in order to get the same benefits we need to add the sleeve armour for the same QL to the shield stats.

    The creations are great - if we didn't have to give up weapons to use them.

    X
    Last edited by XtremTech; Jan 14th, 2003 at 19:53:29.
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  8. #8
    Originally posted by darkzone
    The creation weapons are atm one of our class defining abilities
    *cries bitter tears*

    215/15 | Lagerlad Atrox Adventurer | eqp | Mostly indestructible
    214/13 | Xpie Atrox Meta-physicist | eqp | Supernova!
    Member of Ragnarok

  9. #9
    Okay I know ive said it before but I still love this Idea.

    If we have creation weapons, and creation sheilds. then why cant we just have spanking new creation Armour.

    It would be unique to the Mp, and not as illusive or uber as GA, but give us enough defence to hold our own?

    It would be worn on the back and perhaps be available in QL's of 25. e.g 25,50,75,100 etc

    Adds defences of 100 points to all ACs. per QL increasing by 100 each time.

    E.g. 100 at lvl ql 25, 200 at 50 and so on, or maybe thats a bit too high?

    Also get adds to Dodge duck etc nano init.

    The creation armour would only last for 2 hours the same as the current weapons.

    QL 25 armour - Creation Armour of the Saviours
    QL50 armour - Creation Armour of the Servants
    QL75 armour - Creation Armour of the Protector
    QL100 armour - Creation Armour of the Spirit
    QL125 armour - Creation Armour of the Soul
    QL150 armour - Creation Armour of the Mind
    QL175 armour - Creation Armour of the Guardian
    QL200 armour - Creation Armour of the Sanctuary

    Creation Armour Description - This taxing nano program allows the caster to combine nano bots to form a protecting armour, this armour will last for 2 hours whilst providing the wearer with enhanced defences and senses.

    And perhaps we could have a complete new look armour added for us, instead of using an already in game armour and slapping a new name on it.

    I say give us Creation Armour and fix our pets, and ill certainly be happy....

    What do you guys think?
    Tikon - Forever an MP. Rest in peace my dear old friend.


    Remember, Life is a Journey, Not a Destination, So enjoy the ride..

  10. #10
    /me points at the Wishlist Entry already in there for Creation Armour.

    This thread is just about making a proposal for making the Creation Shields more useable really by enabling us to carry weapons while 'wearing' them in some sense.

    Good ideas though.

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  11. #11

    Shields

    Hey Xtre ,

    Im diggin this idea but in your progressively higher creation shield your taking away previous mods...such as
    the modest +10 parry on the first shield...WHY NOT propose this idea and adding additional abilities as well as increase previous shield abilities.

    I dont see why as these things become harder to equip via req's we have to lose previous benifits.

    Them then cumulate.

    Neurogroove.

  12. #12
    Hi Stress,

    I'm open to the idea of modifying the Creaion's benefits. The ones above are just what they are now.

    I'd write a separate proposal for the mods changes though. Just this one change to a sleeve armour piece would already be great. If you suggest some new/improved mods then we can discuss them.

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  13. #13
    If it's armor shouldn't we change the 1HB requirement to some other skill like a base ability or anything other ?
    It seems a bit strange havin to raise 1HB for a piece of armour. Perhaps we could use a evade ?
    [DarkZone], member of the e)X(odus
    [Zophee], [codCrat] both Clan of Darkness members

  14. #14
    Hmmm I dunno... 1HB does seem the right stat for a shield. It's a blunt object you hold in one hand after all. Also, for the benefits FC will always expect some sacrifice to be made in skills and something like evades/int/psy that we'd be raising anyway isn't really much of a sacrifice (though I can see why you might like that ).

    I'm not against the idea though and would include some suggestions in the proposal as "nice to haves".

    Since the server is going down soon I may try to throw a formal proposal together as it's clear we all like the idea.

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  15. #15
    k, the evade thing was not the right thought I see. My point was that 1HB is an attack skill not defense. Unfortunately I cannot find another good skill to waste IP on (my hope was you could find a good one); strength or parry perhaps all other stuff doesn't match a shield either.
    [DarkZone], member of the e)X(odus
    [Zophee], [codCrat] both Clan of Darkness members

  16. #16
    Parry would be a great option along with Riposte, since both of those skills have shields in game which are based on them. Unfortunately, they're both more expensive than 1HB for the MP.

    1HB = 2.6 times green skill cost
    Riposte = 3.2 times green skill cost
    Parry = 4 times green skill cost.

    I think it's probably best to leave 1HB as the skill suggested in the proposal. This would also make it an easier implementation on the whole since we would be changing only the slot that the shield equips to.

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  17. #17
    Originally posted by XtremTech
    ... This would also make it an easier implementation on the whole since we would be changing only the slot that the shield equips to...
    That's definetly more important
    [DarkZone], member of the e)X(odus
    [Zophee], [codCrat] both Clan of Darkness members

  18. #18
    Adding following to the wishlist:

    Proposal to Change Creation Shields to Arm Equip Slot
    =======================================

    The creation shields are excellent tools. They have good benefits that the MPs find to be more than useful. Many MP's use them in PvM up until around level 125. The Creation Shields represent a key element in the MP's defences against weapons users and are valued for that. However, for higher level MPs and PvP specialist MPs, the need to pick up damage dealing weapons (which are nearly always ranged weapons due to our low hitpoints and middling evades) means that the Creation Weapons are no longer useable.

    This means that a key part of the MP's defences against weapons disappears in practical play.

    As a result, the MP community has come up with a proposal to make the Creation Shields into an "armour" piece that equips into the Left Arm slot. Since this would mean losing a sleeve armour piece, the following proposal has added the normal Nano Armour sleeve ACs to the present Creation Shield ACs. This means that the overall change is neutral and brings no other benefit to the MP than allowing the MP to wield a ranged weapon alongside the shield. No other stats of the shields have been changed in the proposal.

    The MP community feels strongly that this simple change would in one stroke make the Creation Shields a primary tool of MPs at higher levels and in particular make the higher QL versions indispensable.

    Creation: Vital Buckler QL59
    • Requirements:
      1hBluntWeapons 193
      TimeSpace 292

      Parry +10
      MaxHP +170

      ACs: +146

    Creation: Notum Defender QL72
    • Requirements:
      1hBluntWeapons 233
      TimeSpace 354

      Nano Cost -3%
      Nanopool +370
      NanoResist +10

      ACs: +194

    Creation: Solar Guard QL85
    • Requirements:
      1hBluntWeapons 282
      TimeSpace 427

      DMSModifier +100
      Reflect FireAC +15

      ACs: +275

    Creation: Living Shield of Evernan QL112
    • Requirements:
      1hBluntWeapons 375
      TimeSpace 568

      Parry +24
      MaxHP +342

      ACs: +282

    Nano Crystal (Creation: Wave Breaker)(129)
    • Requirements:
      1hBluntWeapons 430
      TimeSpace 651

      Nano Cost -6%
      Nanopool +684
      NanoAC +24

      ACs: +352

    Creation: Belthior's Flame Ward QL147
    • Requirements:
      1hBluntWeapons 494
      TimeSpace 749

      DMSModifier +160
      Reflect FireAC +23

      ACs: +457

    Creation: Death Ward QL177
    • Requirements:
      1hBluntWeapons 602
      TimeSpace 913

      Parry +37
      MaxHP +481

      ACs: +445

    Creation: Mocham's Guard QL187
    • Requirements:

      1hBluntWeapons 618
      TimeSpace 936

      Nano Cost -10%
      Nanopool +857
      Nano Resist +37

      ACs: +510

    Creation: Shield of Asmodian QL205
    • Requirements:
      1hBluntWeapons 683
      TimeSpace 1035

      DMSModifier +210
      Reflect FireAC +30

      ACs: +660






    This proposal was designed in the MP Wishlist: Creation Shield - Change to Non-Weapon Thread. For more information about how the design was reached please reference that thread. To propose changes/additions to this design - please post to that thread.



    .
    Last edited by XtremTech; Jan 16th, 2003 at 00:19:07.
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  19. #19
    /me is sitting in the rocking chair in the dark corner mumbling...

    LT: insane nano skill req...fc not to bright...rubi-ka economy based on creation nanos....costs more then GA...were all gimps...

    Nurse: Mr McCullers time for your ignorance shot!

    LT: No not again! INSANE REQ! FC DUPIT! RK UNBALANCED! AHHHHH ugh...

    Nurse: There all better, wouldnt want you saying anything we here at the "home" dont want you to ya know.

    /me sits back down quietly and goes back to his basket weaving.
    GalxandJoan "Toxinator" Rox :: 202 Doc
    He "Tearspoint" Totem :: 215 Nano Tech :: Equipment :: Perks
    General :: Band of Brothers :: Band of Brothers Forums

    Account Created
    2001-08-23 04:59:27

    Account Status:
    Open

  20. #20

    Re: MP Wishlist: Creation Shield - Change to Non-Weapon

    Originally posted by XtremTech
    2) The Creation shields are changed to equip in the Utils slot. In order to have an effect that would have to be 'used' in the same way that a parry shield needs to be used - by right clicking it or using it from the shortcut bar. This would probably mean that the shield would not be visible ().
    A wen-wen and a torch go in a util slot and are visible, so I can't see why the shields couldn't be setup the same way.

    Also, if the shields aren't going to be weapons, then they shouldn't have a 1hb req. Perhaps a Parry req would be better? I know Parry costs more to raise, but I just see using the 1hb skill as a half-assed attempt at something.

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