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Thread: Friday with Means - May 22nd, 2009

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Flyingengi View Post
    Hi thar...

    TAKE THAT YOU CRED SPAMMERS AND CRED BUYERS!!!
    tbh credit spammers have never actually bothered me that much.


    OMG PAGE CLAIM
    Dagger 220/30/70 Shade // Attempted 219/24/?? Enforcer // Canidae 180/0/0 Adventurer // World 185/26/32 Meta-Physicist// Cramp 150/20/35 Engineer
    Ya wanna fix something - give RK mobs better xp, make RK matter again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mamman View Post
    Give shades love or we will stop buffing people!!

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    With the delays due to difficulties associated with optimization of Ogre to work well with current AO and the estimated timelines for a full implementation of the Conan engine (Dreamworld Engine/Cheetah) being nearly identical we were faced with a difficult decision.

    We chose to go with the Dreamworld Engine.
    OK, that brings up something you said once before:
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    They were very excited to have 500 Turbine mesh's on the screen at once without significant issues. I'm going to assume this is a good thing...I sometimes don't always get those "coder moments".
    Is this issue fixed in Dreamworld engine yet?

    The one problem I had with graphics in AoC was dropping from a reasonably high FPS to a slideshow when I suddenly came upon a camp of dozens of identical mobs, or every time a necromancer with a half-dozen pets in tow ran into my field of view. It only happened for a few seconds, but it was far worse than simple loss of framerate.

    Even worse than trying to play in a slideshow, the system became completely unresponsive to keyboard/mouse input at those times, effectively the same as being afk for a few seconds every time a necro ran past.

    --Which sucks when you're engaged with 3-4 mobs. "One more special and I've got them. No wait, slideshow! Argh! Where did that necro come from and why's he looking at my corpse now?"

    By the way my hard drive started thrashing, it would seem the engine was trying to load meshes from the database every time it drew an object, rather than caching any of the more common meshes like pets, or the one mob type that constitutes 1/3 of the playfield.
    Last edited by Keldros; May 21st, 2009 at 05:05:42.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Keldros View Post
    OK, that brings up something you said once before:


    Is this issue fixed in Dreamworld engine yet?

    The one problem I had with graphics in AoC was dropping from a reasonably high FPS to a slideshow when I suddenly came upon a camp of dozens of identical mobs, or every time a necromancer with a half-dozen pets in tow ran into my field of view. It only happened for a few seconds, but it was far worse than simple loss of framerate.

    By the way my hard drive started thrashing, it would seem the engine was trying to load meshes from the database every time it drew an object, rather than caching any of the more common meshes like pets, or the one mob type that constitutes 1/3 of the playfield. Even worse than trying to play in a slideshow, the system became completely unresponsive to keyboard/mouse input at those times, effectively the same as being afk for a few seconds every time a necro ran past.

    --Which sucks when you're engaged with 3-4 mobs. "One more special and I've got them. No wait, slideshow! Argh! Where did that necro come from and why's he looking at my corpse now?"
    For what its worth, when testing 1.05 in AOC, the performance was signifigantly improved from when I used to play. Flying through Old Tarantia on an epic horse with everything (everything) on high on the DX9 client was refreshing.

    Because I sure couldnt do that, back in the day. Yeah, I could put it on high, and get 30 fps maybe in Lachiesh plains, but certainly not 95. I've OC'ed my CPU since then, but an increase of this type really cant be written off due to that.

    However the DX10 client is pretty bad. Godrays = LOL BYE FPS.
    I'm casting "Physical Dominance" on you as a kind of kinky thing
    ... also quite proud of being suspended from Lemmingnet.. for... not slacking?
    GOOD ONE.

    Don't be lonely anymore.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by K1nkstaah View Post
    However the DX10 client is pretty bad. Godrays = LOL BYE FPS.
    F**k DX10.
    Member of Spartans
    Hacre/Solitus/Keeper/220/29/70 - Ninpopotamus/Solitus/NT/220/30/70 - Charmming/Opifex/Crat/220/30/70
    Quote Originally Posted by randomalpha View Post
    in the end soldier is not Op or even near from that never was never will be just for the record only keepers are the ones before soldiers on the nerfest list
    Genius at work.

  5. #25
    AoC didnt have DX10 on release.
    "A whole new place to run around for ages in then die suddenly without warning."

    "I know who coded pet pathing... and when I see him I say "/follow" and I start waling in to walls :P"

    The "Trolls" option is incorrect. The term trolls is not used to describe the gathering of information on the Internet.

    <@Kintaii> L2P

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Technogen View Post
    AoC didnt have DX10 on release.
    You're right, thats why I was referring to its state now.
    I'm casting "Physical Dominance" on you as a kind of kinky thing
    ... also quite proud of being suspended from Lemmingnet.. for... not slacking?
    GOOD ONE.

    Don't be lonely anymore.

  7. #27
    Allright, let me see if I got this right;

    Old release date of ogre based AO engine - Soon(tm)
    New release date of dreamfall based AO engine - Soon(tm)

    Well that's a shame... I think


  8. #28
    Is the decision to switch from Ogre more to do with the fact that it's Open Source licensed, as opposed to issues with its limitations?
    Member of Spartans
    Hacre/Solitus/Keeper/220/29/70 - Ninpopotamus/Solitus/NT/220/30/70 - Charmming/Opifex/Crat/220/30/70
    Quote Originally Posted by randomalpha View Post
    in the end soldier is not Op or even near from that never was never will be just for the record only keepers are the ones before soldiers on the nerfest list
    Genius at work.

  9. #29
    I would say it's more based on pure logistics. There's more devs inhouse that know Dreamworld, there's more upword code work done on it.

    Also it would make moving over to AO2 much much easier if the chose to do it.
    "A whole new place to run around for ages in then die suddenly without warning."

    "I know who coded pet pathing... and when I see him I say "/follow" and I start waling in to walls :P"

    The "Trolls" option is incorrect. The term trolls is not used to describe the gathering of information on the Internet.

    <@Kintaii> L2P

  10. #30
    I think few of the reasons for dreamworld over ogre is:
    1) There is likely some lisensing cost for Ogre(dunno about real cost, but LGPL seems bit complicated if they are doing lot of work with it...). And on otherhand Dreamworld is free technology for AO.
    2) Huge work force which can help with AO too, as Dreamworld likely will be THE choise for any future FC product(not java or "casual"s ofc...)
    3) It is one of the most advanced engines in MMORPG market today.
    4) etc.

    Somewhat spammers seems to be down and they die after fist message. Thanks.

    PS. IBAN? Please Means ;D
    Last edited by Ekarona; May 21st, 2009 at 10:35:11.
    Ekarona 220/30 Female Solitus Engineer, long term member of Northern Star and proper "poor" gimp.
    Ekaslave 220/low Female Solitus Trader, FLAT(TM) pricing TS, almost all can do!
    Ekaros almost there/almost there too Male Solitus Martial-Artist.
    Ekadv gimp/gimp Female Opifex Adventurer

  11. #31
    thanx for that means, now i have journey stuck in my head and it wont go away.
    Quote Originally Posted by egadsrk2 View Post
    In the case of this little drama, Party A created a situation. Party B perpetuated it with name calling. Party A finished it with violence...
    I was "party A"

  12. #32
    Very interesting news. Glad to hear a progress report.. however I guess this means I'll be waiting even longer to be able to play AO again

    Edit: Quick question for Means. Does this mean that with the AoC engine we can expect a more robust character creation process more akin to This and This? You know those plastic surgery clinics would be ideal for all us long timers getting to go and design our characters from scratch.. would be ubah.. if you have to just pilfer some models from AoC as the template to work from and work from there.. after all the difference between breeds is merely some minor bone movement, textures and a few accessories (especially for nanomage) which would already fit in with the AoC races.. just change the default settings min/maxing and texture options..
    Last edited by Aethyrguard; May 21st, 2009 at 11:50:16.

  13. #33
    Sorry to hear Ogre didn't work out

    Thanks for another great update Means though, best of luck with the new engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    Woh, who'd have thought you'd look so good in leopard print t-shirt & a wig... grats!

    Awesome song <3

    Quote Originally Posted by Uaintseenme View Post
    thanx for that means, now i have journey stuck in my head and it wont go away.
    Lucky!

    Quote Originally Posted by Keldros View Post
    <concerns about new engine>
    Think eremites at the end of a HI raid... "nargh, I can't loot my specs!" *cries*

    I hope this scenario gets tested.
    Troxxor - Atrox Enforcer - My Ganker [Target]
    Slights - Solitus Enforcer - My Tanker [Target]

    Loyal General of Ascension
    www.clan-ascension.org
    Rimor | Clan
    Significant Alts: SlightChange | Bokken | Takken

  14. #34
    damn if dreamworld is pulled the rigth way over AO, it would bring so many more players to the game. Means this have a huge potential!

    This could bring back AO to much better days, I would say it could overrun AoC

    I hope the higher up, see the potential of AO with dreamworld as the engine, and give it some push money wise to make it happend, and then get some hype going on it!

  15. #35
    Well, as I read it, we would have gotten an Ogre-based engine in November and now a Dreamworld-based engine in November. I had originally guessed they would pop it out in time for Halloween so overall things seem on course to me. Getting a bunch of AoC coders brought over to put the afterburners on the Dreamworld modifications allows for them to switch engines and still get it out the door this year.
    I am Dagget

  16. #36
    I dont quite understand the complete difference between the two game engines, can someone enlighten me? For example, which one is actually better? What one will perform the best under high stress? What does the change really translate to in the form of what a player will experience with one engine over the other?

    With all the coding and work that went in to Ogre, wont this also mean re-coding to the Dreamworld engine thus translating to more time being spent on the engine? If so, that reminds me of a game called Duke Nukem Forever where everything kept changing over and over again and nothing ever was accomplished. That what if, will then just translate to more Vaporware.

    Personally, I am crossing my fingers for more Vaporware. AO's history speaks for itself and its riddled with Vaporware.

    However, when it is released (still crossing my fingers for a summer of 2010 release!) I just want it to be what we are all expecting it to be, amazing, smooth, crisp and clear.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Rerolll View Post
    I dont quite understand the complete difference between the two game engines, can someone enlighten me? For example, which one is actually better? What one will perform the best under high stress? What does the change really translate to in the form of what a player will experience with one engine over the other?

    With all the coding and work that went in to Ogre, wont this also mean re-coding to the Dreamworld engine thus translating to more time being spent on the engine? If so, that reminds me of a game called Duke Nukem Forever where everything kept changing over and over again and nothing ever was accomplished. That what if, will then just translate to more Vaporware.

    Personally, I am crossing my fingers for more Vaporware. AO's history speaks for itself and its riddled with Vaporware.

    However, when it is released (still crossing my fingers for a summer of 2010 release!) I just want it to be what we are all expecting it to be, amazing, smooth, crisp and clear.
    Just have to comment on your reading comprehension level. It is clearly explained that the time estimate is not increasing.. if anything in the long run switching to the dreamworld engine vs the ogre engine means that as the dreamworld engine evolves as it is developed for FC's other games AO will enjoy updates to it's codebase which will allow for more enhancements with less production time.

    The above mentioned is all the reason a developer truly needs to make such a decision.. "devote manpower to developing parallel features as another branch of a company at the same or similar time frames separately or share codebases and double your potential simply because there are more people familiar with the code and the use of it and expansion there of."

  18. #38
    Very well thought out decision on the game engine, I havent personally played AOC(just not my type) but graphic's look good on screens i have seen.

    and ty guys/gals for the quick response on cred spam, its nice to see a mmo company actually do something about this stuff

    im very pleased
    Styles9999<220/21/50 MA-Main-
    Proud member of Obsidian Order!
    All accounts closed as of 04-28-10

  19. #39
    Deleted.
    Last edited by Means; May 21st, 2009 at 13:10:13. Reason: Don't gold spam my thread :P! Nothing we can do will ever prevent gold spam 100%. But we are doing our best to minimize it.
    Soldier level 220/ax30/le70 veteran of clan First Light
    Bureaucrat level 174/ax24/le42 advisor of clan First Light

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Aethyrguard View Post
    Just have to comment on your reading comprehension level. It is clearly explained that the time estimate is not increasing.. if anything in the long run switching to the dreamworld engine vs the ogre engine means that as the dreamworld engine evolves as it is developed for FC's other games AO will enjoy updates to it's codebase which will allow for more enhancements with less production time.

    The above mentioned is all the reason a developer truly needs to make such a decision.. "devote manpower to developing parallel features as another branch of a company at the same or similar time frames separately or share codebases and double your potential simply because there are more people familiar with the code and the use of it and expansion there of."
    And I have to comment on your reading comprehension level. Means said, "...we hope to bring the Dreamworld engine to AO in 2009." He never said, "Yeah dudes, November 2009!! woot!" or even an exact time-frame. Also, FC has a tendency of giving really bad estimates on release dates.

    Think of it this way (or at least this is how I view it). A lot of work has been done using Ogre, probably 2-4 years worth, then to all of a sudden drop it and switch engines completely and lose all progress you had with one for a more favorable one, to me, that translates to more time in prepping AO. I doubt that it is going to be some sort of cut and paste job with the Ogre engine and the Dreamworld engine. But then again, I dont know the similarities or differences in both, they could be compatible and they could not, I do not know. From my point of view, it sounds like there will be some additional work to be had translating to an extended release date.

    But ok, lets take what you said as the truth, that the time-frame isn't increasing. It is mid-May right now and even with help from the larger technical team I have my doubts that they could completely switch engines in 6 months and get everything up and running by November. I just cant fathom that given AO/FC's track record.

    Lastly, if you are going to quote and reply to someone's post make sure you at least reply to their questions rather than going off on a tangent about something irrelevant to their post and also drop the troll attitude. Immediately commenting on someone's "reading comprehension level" is a great way to sound like you're a typical 12 year old WoW idiot.
    Last edited by Rerolll; May 21st, 2009 at 13:03:11.

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